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CAD Training and Software
lsdweb - 12/2/14 at 08:43 PM

Hi All

I'm starting to take on some property projects after retiring at the ripe old age of 50.

We've been using a local architect who has charged us a fortune and produced some pretty lame plans! I'm continually messing around with plans for future projects using MS paint and it's hit me that if I was able to use proper CAD I could do a lot myself. I'm pretty IT savvy and did do some drawing work (on a board!) years ago.

Can anybody recommend a CAD training company and software that I could use for 'proper' plans. There's a local print company that can do A1 for about 30p a sheet so I wouldn't need to splash out on a new printer.

Regards

Wyn

D Beddows - 12/2/14 at 08:52 PM

For 2D Architect type plans try Drafttsight - it's free and just about as good as AutoCad.

Training I don't know - I've been on a couple of courses in my time and they were hellishly expensive (although I didn't pay) for what you learned. Have a try figuring it out yourself and see how you go, don't tell anyone but the basics aren't that hard to pick up. It's also not that hard to find video training courses to download if you look in the right places

3D is a different kettle of banana's

Sam_68 - 12/2/14 at 09:04 PM

If you're just 'messing around with plans' then Sketchup is free, very simple and intuitive user interface, great for 3D and adequate for simple dimensioned drawings. Plenty of professional Architects (myself included) use it for 3D work. There are plenty of online tutorials, so you can teach yourself.

If you're serious, and need a comprehensive 2D drafting package with 3D capability, then you really can't beat AutoCAD: it's the industry standard and everybody except a few freaks and weirdos uses it.

I can't recommend you any training; local colleges often run courses for reasonable money (as D Beddows says, if you have to pay for training from a private training company, it's not at all cheap), or you could buy yourself one of the 'Teach Yourself' type books and learn from there. I'm pretty much self-taught on AutoCAD, but I'd say it took me 5 years to become truly competent (though I'm now regarded as something of a Guru, even by the younger members of my team!).

U2U me if you're interested in AutoCAD.

Where in Wales are you?

D Beddows - 12/2/14 at 09:25 PM

Sketchup is a lot better for serious architectural work than it's reputation would have you believe, I use it a lot - HOWEVER using it is easy, being good at it takes a lot more work...... plus getting decent 2D plans out of it can be very frustrating. It is worth a look though, without the Pro version you are a bit handicapped in terms of creating drawings rather than models mind you.

Sam_68 - 12/2/14 at 09:43 PM

Yes, I agree that Sketchup is a bit third-rate for 2D drafting.

I've just had a quick look at Draftsight and, while it's limited to 2D and it's pretty limited in its functions, I have to say that as an AutoCAD user, the user interface and structure of the program is very similar and I could start using it straight away, without any reference to manuals or training.

It might be a good way of learning 2D CAD, therefore, 'cos I assume that if you learnt Draftsight, you'd be able to move on to AutoCAD without too much trouble - it would just seem like a super-powerful, super-flexible version of Draftsight.

I wouldn't worry too much about Draftsight being free and AutoCAD being £6K a license, however, if you fancied the challenge of learning AutoCAD from the outset.

D Beddows - 12/2/14 at 09:54 PM

I actually used Draftsight at work for a couple of months as an experiment and it was perfectly usable if you didn't need any kind of 3D - it is rubbish at hatching in comparison to AutoCad mind you and that's what eventually finished it for me. It's one big advantage over modern AutoCad however is that is never seems to run out of memory and crash, AutoCad is shocking for that nowadays even with an i7 processor, decent graphics card, 64 bit OS and 8 gig of RAM

Sam_68 - 12/2/14 at 10:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows...big advantage over modern AutoCad however is that is never seems to run out of memory and crash, AutoCad is shocking for that nowadays even with an i7 processor, decent graphics card, 64 bit OS and 8 gig of RAM


It is a bit of a monster in terms of memory requirements and processing power, yes.

I run a 3.4 GHz i7 with 16 gig of RAM and it still creaks quite a bit when I'm working on really complicated 3D's... but we're talking about complex engineering models of cars, including fully detailed models of all engine and drivetrain components, or housing developments of a 100+ units. I very rarely get a crash, to be fair (running AutoCAD 2013), but the response when zooming, panning or regenerating the model in 3D can be a bit sluggish.

I'm sure lsdweb would find the basic system requirements for running AutoCAD would suffice for domestic projects.

Andybarbet - 12/2/14 at 10:20 PM

I started a new position at work 2 months ago, dealing with projects & have had to learn how to use autocad 2008.

Ive only been using it for 2 weeks but with a bit of google searching for tutorials, ive done about 10 drawings so far & its really interesting.
I was looking for local basic courses but nothing was available, im going to persevere teaching myself now as its very rewarding so far.

I was a drawing board draftsman from 16 to 25 years old but if I can learn cad from scratch at 40 years young I reckon anyone can.

Once you get your head around the layer's of the drawing, its amazing what you can see by turning different layer's on & off.

Good luck :-)

D Beddows - 12/2/14 at 10:20 PM

To be honest I haven't used 3D AutoCad for 10 years - I did a lot of things in it 10 years ago and I still have the mental scars I know it's a lot better now but other things are so much better for 3D that I can't be bothered revisiting it.

But you are right Isdweb wont encounter any memory leak problems for what he wants it for

Andybarbet - 12/2/14 at 10:22 PM

We only have the need for 2D drawings at the moment but I bet doing 3D drawings is amazing in comparison.

Sam_68 - 12/2/14 at 10:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
I know it's a lot better now but other things are so much better for 3D that I can't be bothered revisiting it.


It has improved massively on 3D in the last couple of generations, but even now, AutoCAD is still very obviously a 2D drafting package with 3D bolted on.

For stand-alone 3D I tend to use Sketchup for architectural work, simply because it's so quick and easy, and I'm trying to get into Solidworks for my automotive stuff.

But Solidworks is a dead loss for architectural drafting, and it suffers the opposite problem to AutoCAD - it's very obviously a 3D modelling package with 2D drafting functionality bolted on as an afterthought.

And I find that using multiple CAD/graphics packages (AutoCAD, Sketchup, Photoshop, Solidworks and ProgeCAD - a cut-price AutoCAD near-clone that my current employer insists on using for some of our licenses) really does my head in - you get into the mindset of using one almost subconsciously, then switching to the different user interface of another package throws you out completely. It's like being asked to randomly switch between a modern manual car, an automatic, a paddle shift and a vintage with a crash box and central accelerator pedal, and being expected to go out and set fast lap times round a circuit in each with no time to acclimatize!

Hence my personal advice would be to try to find a single package that can do everything you want (AutoCAD comes close, for me, despite its limitations on 3D and colour rendering), if you can, and stick to it.

D Beddows - 12/2/14 at 10:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Andybarbet
We only have the need for 2D drawings at the moment but I bet doing 3D drawings is amazing in comparison.



It's a double edged sword - people kind of expect it now but 2D drawings often contain as much (if not more) practical information in an easier to use format PLUS 3D used properly tends to dump more of the responsibility onto the draughtsman but the salary's for draughtsmen haven't increased to reflect that.

Due to recent circumstances I am quite cynical about the topic though so take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt

Sam_68 - 12/2/14 at 11:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
Due to recent circumstances I am quite cynical about the topic though so take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt


No, I'd agree with that, totally.

Sadly, the younger generation don't seem to be learning the skills of interpreting 2D orthographic projection, either (and Planning Committee Member never have been able to). So to produce drawings that do exactly the same job, you have to spend 5 times as long creating a photo-realistic 3D model just so that some numpty can interpret what they're looking at properly. And people assume that because it's whizz-bang computer technology, it must be so fast they don't need to pay you for it.

And we draftsmen always need to remember that any technical drawing is a means to an end, not an end in itself. We're our own worst enemies, sometimes.

Andybarbet - 12/2/14 at 11:12 PM

Its very sad !

In 1998 I left my first drawing job that i loved because I ended up getting an unskilled factory job much closer to home but for 25% more money, so I suppose times havent really changed.

I know what you are saying about the 3d stuff though, I have done a couple of basic isometrics on autocad just to give a certain boss who cant read a drawing, a rough idea of the end product !

lsdweb - 13/2/14 at 09:07 AM

Thanks for all the expert advice!

I'll give Draftsight a go to start (as it's free!) and if I manage to get to grips with it who knows!

Regards

Wyn (South West Wales)

mcerd1 - 13/2/14 at 11:27 AM

what OS are you running on your PC ?



[Edited on 13/2/2014 by mcerd1]

lsdweb - 13/2/14 at 06:48 PM

Hi mcerd1

I'm running Windows 7.

I've installed Drafsight and spent a couple of hours on the tutorials. I've just received a DWG file of a property we're considering and I'm messing about with a copy of it! Dangerous!

Regards

Wyn

welderman - 14/2/14 at 11:15 AM

no help to you Wyn sorry, but thinking on the same lines as you for doing our lazer profiles. Wanting a programme myself.

Do you know if there is a programme out there that will scan a drawing then you can play with it on the pc ?

ps. hows the retirement going

mcerd1 - 14/2/14 at 11:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by lsdweb
I'm running Windows 7.

I had some other ideas if you were running an older OS, but win 7 is too new - sounds like your on the right track though

mcerd1 - 14/2/14 at 12:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by welderman
Do you know if there is a programme out there that will scan a drawing then you can play with it on the pc ?


you get some little programs that can convert an image file into a dxf or dwg file (I think the latest autocad's are meant to have built in version)


but these don't give you a ready to use cad file - they give you a big pile of squiggly lines that are sort of vaguely in the right place like this:


^^ even the bits that look ok on that conversion are actually made up of 20 + segments rather than one strait line

[Edited on 14/2/2014 by mcerd1]

D Beddows - 14/2/14 at 03:09 PM

quote:

no help to you Wyn sorry, but thinking on the same lines as you for doing our lazer profiles. Wanting a programme myself.

Do you know if there is a programme out there that will scan a drawing then you can play with it on the pc ?

ps. hows the retirement going




Thank's, Joe


for what you need to do Joe you can import PDF's into AutoCad now as something called an 'underlay' which lets you snap onto the lines to fairly accurately trace it. Not ideal admittedly but it is easier than just tracing something. As for AutoCad itself the skills you'd need to draw lazer cutting profiles you could probably pick up in a couple of days to be honest. I'm only 20 minutes away if you need any guidance/software