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Brexit

sdh2903 - 24/6/16 at 06:27 AM

Oh dear what have we done. Should've got my euros yesterday...........

Bloody Nigel Farage is bloody everywhere now

slingshot2000 - 24/6/16 at 06:52 AM

Yes, and Cameron and Osbourne are nowhere to be seen !

907 - 24/6/16 at 06:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by slingshot2000
Yes, and Cameron and Osbourne are nowhere to be seen !

They'll put up taxes, just out of spite.

mark chandler - 24/6/16 at 07:12 AM

Used democracy to ensure we retain our democracy.

I believe long term we will absolutely be better off, we have also exposed a couple of traits in Boris and Nigel that really should exclude them from running the show.

cliftyhanger - 24/6/16 at 07:18 AM

We need cameron and osbourne to stay in post. Otherwise would we prefer gove/boris/farage to be doing the negotiations. After all they are so experienced and do such great jobs......

The nest few years will see lots more turmoil, it looks like "we" have broken the seal on the status quo.....

Texan - 24/6/16 at 07:23 AM

I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

leew2 - 24/6/16 at 07:26 AM

So, does Brexit mean the end of the IVA and a return to the old way of registering kits?

David Jenkins - 24/6/16 at 07:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Oh dear what have we done. Should've got my euros yesterday...........

Bloody Nigel Farage is bloody everywhere now

But what is his role in life now? The UK is heading for independence, so his party (of 1) is now redundant.

I reckon he'll fade away in the near future.

sdh2903 - 24/6/16 at 07:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

The basic issue of being told what to do by an assembly of politicians in a different country.
.
Now dave has gone. Jesus! Boris for president. Just need trump getting in now. The world's gone mad

prawnabie - 24/6/16 at 07:31 AM

Listening to the radio this morning, the people off the street they were interviewing had no idea why they voted to leave!!

David Jenkins - 24/6/16 at 07:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

Superficially it was immigration - fear that a whole load of refugees and migrants will flood into Britain. However, I can't see that things will change either way on that score.

However, for many people it was because the EU was heading rapidly towards becoming a "United States of Europe", which was something that Britain didn't sign up for when we originally joined. Also, the people with the power in Brussels - the EU Commissioners - are unelected and cannot be removed by democratic means.

It's a mess, whichever way you look at it - whether we'd chosen to remain or leave.

nick205 - 24/6/16 at 07:42 AM

I struggle to voice a political opinion, but I have to say I think the UK has made the right choice to exit the EU. I suspect it'll be painful for a while, but we're already on the road and I do think other countries will follow one way or another.

BenB - 24/6/16 at 07:49 AM

It's a good thing I ordered my holiday Euro's a week ago at 1.30!!!

Looks like Cameron's out of here. Let's hope he takes Jeremy Hunt with him, perhaps then something good will come from this.

Just one thought- UKIP and Farage wanted to leave the EU. Does this mean they're going to close down the party on the basis of "job done"? Oh pleeeeeease! I like my TV and I get an almost irresistable urge to punch it when Farage is on their gurning like a slightly dim-witted Cheshire cat.

Texan - 24/6/16 at 08:01 AM

To me it's a sign that maybe the sheeple of the world might be ready to exert some common sense and begin to take back their countries.

Ugg10 - 24/6/16 at 08:08 AM

I am not usually a political animal but I am worried for the future.

Unless we can get trade and workable immigration process deals done quick I fear for a number of industries.

The only reason Nissan, Toyota and Honda are in the uk is that they can sell cars to the rest of Europe without import taxes, will they stay if this changes.
Where will the next generation of aircraft come from, Airbus is a eu consortium, jaguar, tornado and typhoon are all eu collaboration, U.K. Can't afford to design and build the next generation on their own, buy USA ?
As for agriculture/nhs/hospitality, until we get realistic about personal ability (not everyone should/can got to university, we need a unskilled, skilled and proffessional workforce, all of which are equally important) and that there is a mix of skills and capability and therefore people needs to accept that manual labour is a valid and valuable occupation we will require imported labour willing to do these jobs for the foreseeable future.

IMO this is all compounded by having a parliament made up of career politicians that have no commercial or industrial experience compounded by the fact that les than 10 mp's have science or engineering qualifications. In the future, without Eu support, we will not be able to rely on the finance and service industries and the sooner the government realises that to grow the economy we need to buy raw material, make stuff with them and sell them outside the uk in order to prosper.

Sorry, Rant mode off.

Texan - 24/6/16 at 08:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10

IMO this is all compounded by having a parliament made up of career politicians

That seems to be THE problem all over, not just in the UK.

britishtrident - 24/6/16 at 08:30 AM

Head line reads Turkeys Vote for Xmas.
Little England has just caused a global financial crisis and threatened the long term stability and security of the western world.

Next on the cards Scotland will break with the UK.

sprintB+ - 24/6/16 at 08:33 AM

UGG10, well said, that has been my thoughts for a long time. Do you want a job? leading this country out of this mess.

sdh2903 - 24/6/16 at 08:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident

Next on the cards Scotland will break with the UK.

I would place a big bet on that. Surprised we haven't heard from the fishy duo yet

[Edited on 24/6/16 by sdh2903]

Dick Axtell - 24/6/16 at 08:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Just one thought- UKIP and Farage wanted to leave the EU. Does this mean they're going to close down the party on the basis of "job done"? Oh pleeeeeease! I like my TV and I get an almost irresistable urge to punch it when Farage is on their gurning like a slightly dim-witted Cheshire cat.

The whole & sole reason for Mr. F's existence has completely vanished, with the clear vote for Brexit. Sadly, I don't think he will.

britishtrident - 24/6/16 at 08:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Dick Axtell

quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Just one thought- UKIP and Farage wanted to leave the EU. Does this mean they're going to close down the party on the basis of "job done"? Oh pleeeeeease! I like my TV and I get an almost irresistable urge to punch it when Farage is on their gurning like a slightly dim-witted Cheshire cat.

The whole & sole reason for Mr. F's existence has completely vanished, with the clear vote for Brexit. Sadly, I don't think he will.

He will disappear up his own ego.

Irony - 24/6/16 at 09:09 AM

I must admit I am shocked. It just goes to show how out of touch our government is with the wants of the average british citizen. The splits in the voting are very interesting, London essentially voted to remain with the rest of England voting to leave. Those people in the small towns and villages who have felt abandoned for a long time voted against the capital.

I am concerned about our future but if the government were more in touch with the little people then this could have been avoided. Most 'leave' voters I have spoken to are not concerned with trade, there concerned with immigration.

SteveWallace - 24/6/16 at 09:11 AM

Both sides took a very extreme view of the consequences of voting for them or the other side. The truth will be somewhere between the two and, once the dust has settled, I doubt that we will be able to assign on a macro scale how well we do or otherwise as a country to this decision.

However, there will no doubt be winners and losers on a more local scale and that will bring out a whole load of 'I told you so's" from both sides. There will be loss of specific jobs as a result of this (including where its an excuse and not the real reason) and that will hit the individuals involved hard. There will probably be jobs created as well, but it will be harder to determine which ones these are.

Regardless of what people think about the balance of the money we paid to the EU and then got back, investment from the EU was targeted to some good things that I doubt that our government will continue to support to the same extent. For example, regional development in some of the most needy areas, and funding for R&D will now be exposed to austerity measures. That worries me.

At least in a couple of years time, if you want to work abroad, you will only need to go as far as Scotland!

I guess that most of us will just bumble on as usual. I just hope that the rifts that a 52% 48% vote has created can be healed.

rdodger - 24/6/16 at 09:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

THE issue for me is that the EU is run by a group of faceless unelected Eurocrats. As bad as one may think our politicians are at least they are democratically elected.

Closely followed by bonkers EU laws regarding straight bananas, cucumbers, etc!

ali f27 - 24/6/16 at 09:58 AM

Well looks like the Boris and Donald show is now on the cards you can hear the conversation now between the pair of them lets toss a coin to see who gets to press the button.

scootz - 24/6/16 at 10:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Head line reads Turkeys Vote for Xmas.
Little England has just caused a global financial crisis and threatened the long term stability and security of the western world.

Next on the cards Scotland will break with the UK.

First Minister of Scotland just on the telly now saying that Brexit has indeed just triggered the clause for Indy Ref 2.

Bye bye UK as we know it!

djtom - 24/6/16 at 10:46 AM

quote:
THE issue for me is that the EU is run by a group of faceless unelected Eurocrats. As bad as one may think our politicians are at least they are democratically elected.

Sorry, you're wrong. British critics of the EU like to argue that Britain is losing control to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels (by which they mainly mean the European Commission). While the senior staff of the Commission are indeed unelected, so are bureaucrats almost everywhere, including those in Whitehall. And those staff � as well as being appointed by the elected governments of the member states, and being subject to confirmation in their positions by the elected European Parliament, and having to report regularly to the EP � cannot make final decisions on EU law or policy. Those decisions are made by the Council of Ministers (consisting of ministers from the elected governments of the member states) and the elected EP. Furthermore, the general direction of the EU is guided by the European Council, consisting of the elected heads of government (or state) of the 28 EU member states. And all the EU institutions are accountable to the treaties and the European Court of Justice. The idea that there is a European government in Brussels with independent powers is nothing more than a myth.

And while you are looking at democratic behaviours, we could also turn our attention to our own House of Lords (appointed not democratically elected), and the disproportional representation in the House of Commons.

Sadly it seems that there was an abundance of scare tactics and a distinct lack of checking whether these were facts, distortions or just outright lies.

[Edited on 24/6/16 by djtom]

scootz - 24/6/16 at 10:47 AM

sdh2903 - 24/6/16 at 11:45 AM

I feel this is a sad day on the whole. Just as we were out of recession and starting to grow we decide to bin off our biggest export market, daves going, labour are squabbling amongst themselves (as usual I suppose) and scotland will now inevitably become independent.

I haven't spoken to anyone who voted leave actually make a good argument for doing so.

BenB - 24/6/16 at 12:02 PM

LOL! And the U-turns start here.

Fricking big red bus for the "vote leave" said

"We send the EU �350 million a week let's fund our NHS instead"

Now comes the shocking news that not all the money's going to go to the NHS.
Shortly followed no doubt by the explanation that the �350m doesn't account for the money we get back from the EU so we're never going to see anywhere near �350m let alone spent it on the NHS.

Don't you love politicians?

BenB - 24/6/16 at 12:03 PM

The only upside is we might become a nation of boat builders again. Our dramatically devalued pound will make our products very cheap for the rest of Europe. And the French will no doubt want lots of boats to give the asylum seekers when they disband the Calais camps

Dusty - 24/6/16 at 12:15 PM

Haven't much idea of what it really means for the UK apart from another Scottish referendum. And I'm sad Cameron ran such a pathetic transparent shock/horror campaign. Corbyn was even more pathetic.
What it may well mean for the EU is a radical rethink and general renegotiation of terms for the remaining nations to ward off a domino effect of leavers. Might even end up with the sort of EU we could have wanted to stay in.

MikeRJ - 24/6/16 at 12:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by djtom
The idea that there is a European government in Brussels with independent powers is nothing more than a myth.

So all the thousands of laws which were allegedly made by the EU and to which member countries had to comply with are a myth? Who made these laws if not the EU?

myke pocock - 24/6/16 at 12:31 PM

Dusty, I think you may have hit it on the head. However based on Camerons supposed negotiations that were supposed to be so successful there was never any chance of us getting anything meaningful out of the EU. Sure there will be some short, medium and even long term negative effects by Exiting but the ever present continued slide to a United States of Europe was highly unlikely to have stopped based on history. Think about it, it was the EEC, thats European Economic Community, originally. Certainly isnt that today by a country mile.

steve m - 24/6/16 at 12:42 PM

Im happy

and every Vote ive ever done has been on the winning side

Now if I was to put more logic into the lottery ....................

furryeggs - 24/6/16 at 01:23 PM

There is no part of this referendum that is actually a legal requirement that the government now, or in the future has to go ahead with. It's basicly been a yes or no question to the population to see what we think. There is only 650 people in the country (government) that currently has any say and the majority of them are in the remain camp. The 2011 referendum was a legally binding vote, this one is not.

cliftyhanger - 24/6/16 at 01:42 PM

Maybe so, but be in no doubt, we are now leaving.

looks like teh Scots will be leaving us too.

And yes, I had always thought we needed to leave to get the sort of "deal" we want. A genuine Catch 22 scenario.

We shall see, but I doubt much will change for us. Bit like a change of gvt from lab to con. A few tweeks, but no real change.

BenB - 24/6/16 at 02:04 PM

The amusing thing is the google trends feature in the hours after the result. Top results were "What is the EU" and "What is the impact of leaving the EU".

Bit fricking late to be asking that isn't it!

coozer - 24/6/16 at 02:17 PM

I'm overjoyed here, up all night in the truck listening to it unfold...

And I'm quite chuffed to see the power of the Sunderland people crashing the pound when the declaration was revealed

Glad I bought 3000 euros in Jan when they were 1.40...

However I do not see any problems as we go forward, currency will recover and stock markets will recover to go on making millions for the elite...

Only thing I worry about now is WHO can guide us in the right direction....

motorcycle_mayhem - 24/6/16 at 03:14 PM

The Government is London, London is Financial Services (money printing) London's elite have done little to engage the rest of the country.
The rest of the country have had a chance to say something, it has. I don't believe the voters really understood, or cared about the EU bit, I believe they simply spoke. Enough has been enough.

What happens now is awe inspiringly interesting. The EU wasn't stable, it certainly is less so now, this is all going to get quite deep.

Another Scottish Neverendum coming soon!

Hadrian's/Trump's wall, be it Scotland, Ireland or Mexico.

zetec - 24/6/16 at 03:55 PM

Those who had nothing to loose voted out, now they will still have nothing but they have dragged everyone down too! At least the lorry full of non EU migrants will stop as little point turning up here. As said we were doing well for once and decide to give it all up!

Be carful what you wish for...

scootz - 24/6/16 at 04:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
However I do not see any problems as we go forward, currency will recover and stock markets will recover to go on making millions for the elite...

Does it not slightly bother you that the bulk of the UK's GDP comes from 'financial sevices'. Nothing tangible - just numbers flying through the ether.

Will London continue to be the European financial powerhouse that it currently is now that the UK has voted to leave the EU? I seriously suspect not and can see the big-hitters relocating to continental Europe... Zurich, Frankfurt, Brussels, etc.

So where do we make up that lost GDP if it dos comes to pass? Our industries have been allowed to rot whilst 'The City' has been protected at all costs.

I think Indy Ref 2 will see the UK split. I'm reasonably comfy that Scotland still has the infrastructure to survive. I'm not so sure about other parts of the UK though.

Shooter63 - 24/6/16 at 04:47 PM

I'm not sure what all this doom and gloom is about, while I understand that if you voted in you are as Bill Shankly would have put it " 1st last" if you look around the world there are many countries doing " very nicely thank you" all you need is the right people in charge ( I know this might be a problem) and the right attitude of the population. At the moment our manufacturing output is around 7% gdp, let's start helping these guys boost this up, let's start producing again, why can't we become a power house again. We have some fantastic designers and engineers in this country, let's put them to work rather than let them stock shelves or waste away. If other countries can do it so can we.

Shooter

gregs - 24/6/16 at 04:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
I'm overjoyed here, up all night in the truck listening to it unfold...

And I'm quite chuffed to see the power of the Sunderland people crashing the pound when the declaration was revealed

Glad I bought 3000 euros in Jan when they were 1.40...

However I do not see any problems as we go forward, currency will recover and stock markets will recover to go on making millions for the elite...

Only thing I worry about now is WHO can guide us in the right direction....

But I thought you wanted to retire in Spain?

Texan - 24/6/16 at 05:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Shooter63
I'm not sure what all this doom and gloom is about, while I understand that if you voted in you are as Bill Shankly would have put it " 1st last" if you look around the world there are many countries doing " very nicely thank you" all you need is the right people in charge ( I know this might be a problem) and the right attitude of the population. At the moment our manufacturing output is around 7% gdp, let's start helping these guys boost this up, let's start producing again, why can't we become a power house again. We have some fantastic designers and engineers in this country, let's put them to work rather than let them stock shelves or waste away. If other countries can do it so can we.

Shooter

+eleventy billion

gregs - 24/6/16 at 05:22 PM

It was always going to be a difficult process, as on one hand the populous needed to take the time to learn about the EU (of which we vary from fairly to totally ignorant) and on the other Johnson, Farage & Gove had full license to paint a world of Empires, villains, Unicorns and don't worry - of course we'll get to keep the few good bits of the EU. Against that I understand (though don't agree) why the remain campaign started flying headlines bull in line with leave.

Being employed in the 7% bit of the GDP - I am really, really worried. We've gone from a strong playing field in which we could compete fairly in a market with capacity supported by trade agreements driven by the size. If we really leave (like really reject everything) we will just be having to do what we currently do in a more difficult environment. Supporting manufacturing is all well and good - but only if you're able to sell what you make.

I'm also sort of surprised that some of the low level benefits that we as EU citizens now take for granted never surfaced - E111 as a single example - better plan Travel insurance for 2 years time!

While it really is a bit late, if anybody hasn't taken the 28minutes to watch Prof Michael Douglas (Linky) explain it all (Liverpool University) i'd really recommend it - even if just to understand the challenge of the next 2 years....

Greg

leew2 - 24/6/16 at 07:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gregs
While it really is a bit late, if anybody hasn't taken the 28minutes to watch Prof Michael Douglas (Linky) explain it all (Liverpool University) i'd really recommend it - even if just to understand the challenge of the next 2 years....

Greg

I shared that with a mate, who claimed it was sponsored by the EU!!

gregs - 24/6/16 at 07:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by leew2

quote:
Originally posted by gregs
While it really is a bit late, if anybody hasn't taken the 28minutes to watch Prof Michael Douglas (Linky) explain it all (Liverpool University) i'd really recommend it - even if just to understand the challenge of the next 2 years....

Greg

I shared that with a mate, who claimed it was sponsored by the EU!!

It should have read Dougan not Douglas - over excited spell check! -

I love the claims that were made to rubbish facts in this debate - especially when the only facts were about the past/known.... they seem to have been confused with made up facts about the future!!!

As an aside, if the EU were sponsoring it they've done well getting in there 16+ years before the referendum to groom him into saying, completing research & publishing papers and (in my opinion believing) the 'right' things!.

As an aside, really sad moment for me today was an 80yr old WW2 veteran interviewed and crying on the radio because he genuinely believed we had defeated the Germans again that his friends died for - really really sad.

djtom - 24/6/16 at 08:40 PM

quote:

So all the thousands of laws which were allegedly made by the EU and to which member countries had to comply with are a myth? Who made these laws if not the EU?

We have, and have always had, the power to vote against any law that we didn't want. In fact, the British government has voted against EU laws only 2% of the time since 1999

Official EU voting records show that the British government has voted �No� to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted �Yes� 2,466 times since 1999. In other words, UK ministers were on the �winning side� 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

Why was this? Well, possibly because EU laws aren't all bad, contrary to the scaremongers. Maternity pay? Annual Leave? Working hours directive? Workers rights? All EU legislation. If only you had done some research before voting....

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

perksy - 24/6/16 at 09:35 PM

In the words of Corporal Jones "Don't Panic..."

There's been nonsense spoken by both sides in the lead upto this, but then there always is in this country in the run up to elections etc so we should be used to it

We all took part in a democratic process, some will be pleased with the result and others won't be
What always pi**sses me off though is those that moan about the result that couldn't be bothered to get up off their arses and vote

The NHS was never going to be given extra money straight away (however many millions) and rightly so as there is a great deal of waste within it
(I see it everyday)

We have a very skilled and productive workforce in this country who are also bound by fairly strict employment law so I doubt the foreign car makers will bail straight away without giving it some very serious consideration
You only have to look what is happening in France with strikes and 'burning tyres' etc to see that it might be a poor move for them ?

It'll sort itself out, What the markets don't need though is daft press headlines that will scare folk

Its unprecedented what has gone on and there are many un-answered questions, One thing is for sure, the answers won't come over night...

BenB - 24/6/16 at 09:43 PM

Time for a bit of Pink Floyd:

Tell me true, tell me why, was Jesus crucified�
Is it for this that Daddy died?�
Was it for you? Was it me?�
Did I watch too much T.V.?�
Is that a hint of accusation in your eyes?�
If it wasn't for the nips�
Being so good at building ships�
The yards would still be open on the clyde.�
And it can't be much fun for them�
Beneath the rising sun�
With all their kids committing suicide.�
What have we done, Maggie what have we done?�
What have we done to England?�
Should we shout, should we scream�
"What happened to the post war dream?"�
Oh Maggie, Maggie. What have we done?

coozer - 24/6/16 at 09:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gregs

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
I'm overjoyed here, up all night in the truck listening to it unfold...

And I'm quite chuffed to see the power of the Sunderland people crashing the pound when the declaration was revealed

Glad I bought 3000 euros in Jan when they were 1.40...

However I do not see any problems as we go forward, currency will recover and stock markets will recover to go on making millions for the elite...

Only thing I worry about now is WHO can guide us in the right direction....

But I thought you wanted to retire in Spain?

Yep, want to go to Tenerife myself but wor lass doesn't want to go and leave our loverly grand bairn

coozer - 24/6/16 at 10:03 PM

And, forgot to say still got 15 years before I retire!

britishtrident - 24/6/16 at 10:19 PM

A lot of voters didn't realise the consequences of an out vote, they looked on it as a token protest vote. In Scotland because we had just been through an equally important referendum people were more cautious with their vote.
I am also sad to report that a proportion of out vote came from old xenophobic codgers who view anyone from continental Europe as a bounder.

In Scotland the tactics of the out crowd and the unacceptable side of English nationalism has hardened support for leaving the UK. In the previous Scottish referendum the leave the UK side had a greater support from men than women, what I have noticed a number of older females who previously voted to remain in the UK have changed sides.
The sad fact is Scotland is now very likely to leave the UK, the EU is very bady damaged which will do no good to anyone, it plays into the hands of Putin and Trump and the bigest political parties in the UK are both in civil war

hearbear - 24/6/16 at 10:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident

Next on the cards Scotland will break with the UK.

I would place a big bet on that. Surprised we haven't heard from the fishy duo yet

[Edited on 24/6/16 by sdh2903]

I see the puppet master Alex was the first to gob off closely followed by the wee krankie with Alex hand rammed up here *rse putting his words in her mouth, what the two muppets forgot was they lost the independence vote and we chose to stay as the UK. Are they going to try and say that every time a vote goes the opposite from the way they want, it will be turned round that there is a big shift and we need another once in a lifetime referendum.

Steve126 - 25/6/16 at 01:24 AM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz

This just shows what a bloody idiot Susanna Reid is. She doesn't seem to understand that we have just had a referendum not a general election. Nobody voted for an individual, a party or an alternative government and the vote going the way you wanted doesn't put you in charge.

Farage didn't promise to spend �350million per week on the NHS and as he isn't in government (he isn't even an MP) he has no more control over the NHS budget than she does.

What makes it even more depressing is that most of the people who have commented on this on YouTube seem to be every bit as stupid as Susanna Reid is.

woodster - 25/6/16 at 06:04 AM

She is fit though

JoelP - 25/6/16 at 06:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by rdodger

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

THE issue for me is that the EU is run by a group of faceless unelected Eurocrats. As bad as one may think our politicians are at least they are democratically elected.

Closely followed by bonkers EU laws regarding straight bananas, cucumbers, etc!

This, in my opinion, nicely sum up what went wrong. Diabolical misinformation. We elect meps, and national governments select the Comissioners. That is no lessdemocratic than our own system. We didn't vote for who would be Chancellor, for instance.

The banana and cucumber issue didn't happen- it was tabloid propaganda.

Basically, we've been dragged out largely by an uneducated, economically illiterate rabble.

sdh2903 - 25/6/16 at 06:38 AM

The leave campaign used a very prominent poster claiming that the 350 Mil a week saved from EU contributions would go to the NHS. So I think she has every right to ask the question.

[Edited on 25/6/16 by sdh2903]

Bluemoon - 25/6/16 at 09:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP

quote:
Originally posted by rdodger

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

THE issue for me is that the EU is run by a group of faceless unelected Eurocrats. As bad as one may think our politicians are at least they are democratically elected.

Closely followed by bonkers EU laws regarding straight bananas, cucumbers, etc!

This, in my opinion, nicely sum up what went wrong. Diabolical misinformation. We elect meps, and national governments select the Comissioners. That is no lessdemocratic than our own system. We didn't vote for who would be Chancellor, for instance.

The banana and cucumber issue didn't happen- it was tabloid propaganda.

Basically, we've been dragged out largely by an uneducated, economically illiterate rabble.

That's part of the problem lake of engagement of the political class with real people, and to much sensational talk and little in the way of positive messages...

Neville Jones - 25/6/16 at 09:29 AM

Regardless of what the result is/was, the big money people would make it work.

Money makes the world go around and function.

Money runs the world, and those with the larger amounts dictate how governments operate. (via IMF and World Bank, among others)

This 'out' is a saving grace for the UK, because the EU is about to come apart. Maybe not next year, but in the next 10 years, and not because of what just happened.

I am the biggest advocate for a group of free trading nations without restrictions, just like the UK peoples were sold in the original 'IN' vote but the increasing and engrossing political web of control is an evil that none of us needs. EU Health and Safety rules have shut every scrap yard as a pick yourself parts source, within easy drive of where I live.

And IVA was necessary, to rid the kit industry of the dross that was building at the time.

Cheers,
Nev.

[Edited on 25/6/16 by Neville Jones]

coyoteboy - 25/6/16 at 10:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
To me it's a sign that maybe the sheeple of the world might be ready to exert some common sense and begin to take back their countries.

Afraid not. It's a sign that most people don't understand the full gamut of consequences, like a bit of chest beating and then come to regret it.

The media ran personalized campaigns that suited then as a business, the sheeple thought this was largely fact and ran with whatever paper they usually buy, very few people put across an independent accurate assessment of anything so it was all down to fear and patriotism, the key factors in every single bad decision ever made by countries.

We will be fine, we are big enough to deal with the massive economic dent in our already dented economy. But if anyone thinks the country will repeal existing laws or generate better ones, I think they are in for a shock.I only hope we DO make use of some of the positives.

sdh2903 - 25/6/16 at 10:56 AM

Looks like a lot people aren't happy with the result.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

I've signed it but I fear the damage is already done.

scootz - 25/6/16 at 11:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Steve126

quote:
Originally posted by scootz

This just shows what a bloody idiot Susanna Reid is. She doesn't seem to understand that we have just had a referendum not a general election. Nobody voted for an individual, a party or an alternative government and the vote going the way you wanted doesn't put you in charge.

Farage didn't promise to spend �350million per week on the NHS and as he isn't in government (he isn't even an MP) he has no more control over the NHS budget than she does.

What makes it even more depressing is that most of the people who have commented on this on YouTube seem to be every bit as stupid as Susanna Reid is.

Easy tiger!

Although not an official member of the Leave campaign team, Farage was still one of the most prominent Brexit drummer-boys. Reid has EVERY right to discuss the (frankly ridiculous) poster campaign that was run by his allies. Look at it...

Are you telling me that the gullible - and there are feckin millions of them - wouldn't have been influenced somewhat by such a poster!?

And he doesn't need to be a MP, a Govt minister, or an NHS manager to be qualified to say during interview that it was complete and utter bullshit.

woodster - 25/6/16 at 11:08 AM

I really can't see a problem after all we buy more from them than they do from us , as said before its about big business they won't be to hard on us they have more to lose ................... at the end of the day i'd take a financial knock for more control of our finances we were never going in the euro ... what they've done to Greece is criminal, i voted partly as a kick back at the Germans.

SteveWallace - 25/6/16 at 11:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by woodster
I really can't see a problem after all we buy more from them than they do from us

The most important thing for Brussels now is to ensure that the whole of the EU doesn't collapse. The only way that they can do that is to show that it hurts to leave and therefore discourage others from doing the same. There will be EU members that have high levels of trade with us who will want trading to remain almost as it is now, but don't forget that any one of the remaining 27 can veto a deal that they don't like.

If they want to get really nasty they will publically say that they will welcome Scotland with open arms on good terms and without them having to join the Euro.

Oddly, a consequence of us leaving is that it might be a wakeup call for those that remain to change the EU into something that we wouldn't have wanted to leave in the first place! But it will be too late for us by then.

Cubby - 25/6/16 at 11:21 AM

Help get EU referendum II

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

SteveWallace - 25/6/16 at 11:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Looks like a lot people aren't happy with the result.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

I've signed it but I fear the damage is already done.

I will eat Gary Lineker's pants after he's finished with them on Match of the Day if that works

No way that we will have a second bite at this, there would be rioting on the streets.

scootz - 25/6/16 at 11:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Cubby
Help get EU referendum II

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

To have any credible basis for EU Ref II, then you'd need to show that there was campaign / voting fraud, or there's been significant material change in the UK's circumstances since the vote.

MikeRJ - 25/6/16 at 11:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Cubby
Help get EU referendum II

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

"I didn't like the result so I want another go at it".

This is pathetic and makes a mockery of the democratic process. Imagine if this was put in place every time there was an election and some people didn't like the result.

I want to start a petition to demand that anyone demanding another referendum be deported to Brussels.

Steve126 - 25/6/16 at 11:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
The leave campaign used a very prominent poster claiming that the 350 Mil a week saved from EU contributions would go to the NHS. So I think she has every right to ask the question.

[Edited on 25/6/16 by sdh2903]

I would agree with you if she had been interviewing Michael Gove or Boris because that poster was from Vote Leave of which they were prominent members. Also, they are both part of the party that is in government and seen as candidates for Prime Minister or PM Boris and Chancellor Gove, so they will be able to influence, maybe even have total control over how the money is spent.

Farage isn't part of Vote Leave so the claim about NHS spending wasn't made by him and as he isn't part of the party that is in government he has no more control over the nations finances than you or me.

Susanna Reid should know all of this if she is going to do political interviews, or maybe she did know and was more interested in trying to make a politician look bad than the truth.

femster87 - 25/6/16 at 11:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by woodster
I really can't see a problem after all we buy more from them than they do from us , as said before its about big business they won't be to hard on us they have more to lose ................... at the end of the day i'd take a financial knock for more control of our finances we were never going in the euro ... what they've done to Greece is criminal, i voted partly as a kick back at the Germans.

This statement has made me laugh all through the campaign. When we all sanctioned Russia last year. All the deals they had with the EU has either been substituted with other suppliers from elsewhere or homegrown startups have filled the void. They will be fine if they do not want to trade with us.

Also we would be fine when we find other markets to supply into

steve m - 25/6/16 at 11:53 AM

^^^ +1

I didn't like the result of the FA cup final this year, as the referee was a cheat,

can we have it played again with another Ref ?

sdh2903 - 25/6/16 at 12:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
^^^ +1

I didn't like the result of the FA cup final this year, as the referee was a cheat,

can we have it played again with another Ref ?

Its completely different the whole leave campaign has been based on false bullshit promises. They didn't even get to 2 hours after the declaration before they started back pedalling on their promises.

People have in some cases based their vote on said bullshit promises and now starting to realise that and are feeling a little bit stupid.

Most of the ignorant people who voted out were basing their vote on stopping immigration. 5 mins googling would show that to keep in the European trade area (vital) we have to accept free movement of Europeans into the UK. So what's different? Nothing.

I'm ashamed of the way this whole load of crap has been run. Bickering pathetic children. Give us facts to make an opinion on. Instead no we get Boris vs Dave in a rerun of Eton school bollocks.

The country was getting back on its feet. Manufacture and engineering on the up, several R and D institutions with world class facilities (funded by the EU) austerity starting to get a grip of our finances and now it's all in jeopardy. The pound is down, our credit rating is under threat and most of the ftse 100 lost its arse. The company I work for lost nearly 30% of its value overnight.!!

Rant over, I'm done with politics

scootz - 25/6/16 at 12:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
^^^ +1

I didn't like the result of the FA cup final this year, as the referee was a cheat,

can we have it played again with another Ref ?

Its completely different the whole leave campaign has been based on false bullshit promises. They didn't even get to 2 hours after the declaration before they started back pedalling on their promises.

It wasn't a general election, so no one was in a position to make any promises. They could only give opinions and make suggestions about the way forward if we stayed / left the EU.

Some of these suggestions / opinions were deliberately fanciful, i.e. the implication given in the poster that the NHS could get all the money that we currently pay to the EU. The 'Leave' team targeted the imagination of a specific part of the population with that poster - the less well informed, and the downright ignorant. If anyone bought that overly-simplistic suggestion and allowed it to influence their vote, then they were a complete and utter dangerous fool.

I was firmly in the 'remain' camp, but I concede that there were many valid arguments put forward by the sensible 'leave' supporters. I have absolutely no hard-feelings towards them whatsoever. Sadly, I suspect that it was the bigoted Alf Garnet types who normally don't go anywhere near a polling station that made the difference yesterday though. They were hungry for the nonsense propaganda that those pair of clowns (Boris and Gove) fed them... and boy did they feast on it.

Rod Ends - 25/6/16 at 01:15 PM

David Jenkins - 25/6/16 at 06:02 PM

I see that the national reporting is as bad now as it was before the election - if you look at the prophet-of-doom news reporters, they are all panicking about the 'catastrophic drop' of FTSE100 and FTSE250. If you look at a 3-month graph of those you'll see that both were far lower in January 2016, but no-one felt inclined to panic then.

There was a sudden drop in value, which was not good, but it wasn't the total collapse the headlines suggest.

mark chandler - 25/6/16 at 07:03 PM

All that happened is a load of hedge funds backed the wrong horse and lost, the minority guessed right and made a packet.

Now it is all settling down everything will go back to near where it was, as you say look at the 6 month figures and suddenly it's not that bad.

woodster - 25/6/16 at 08:56 PM

Where's George Osborne ??? Is he hiding under his kitchen table ?? ...........

mark chandler - 25/6/16 at 09:30 PM

Breathing a sigh of relief, he can now say I could not delivery on my promises as you removed me

MikeRJ - 25/6/16 at 09:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I see that the national reporting is as bad now as it was before the election - if you look at the prophet-of-doom news reporters, they are all panicking about the 'catastrophic drop' of FTSE100 and FTSE250. If you look at a 3-month graph of those you'll see that both were far lower in January 2016, but no-one felt inclined to panic then.

There was a sudden drop in value, which was not good, but it wasn't the total collapse the headlines suggest.

Exactly this, I'm really not impressed with the doom-mongering being spread by the media.

JoelP - 25/6/16 at 10:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
I'm overjoyed here, up all night in the truck listening to it unfold...

And I'm quite chuffed to see the power of the Sunderland people crashing the pound when the declaration was revealed

Glad I bought 3000 euros in Jan when they were 1.40...

However I do not see any problems as we go forward, currency will recover and stock markets will recover to go on making millions for the elite...

Only thing I worry about now is WHO can guide us in the right direction....

I'm very puzzled Coozer. I distinctly remember you celebrating when Thatcher died. Yet now you seem to support Farage, who is, in his own words, 'keeping the flame of thatcherism alive'. Have you had a political change of heart?

scootz - 26/6/16 at 09:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by woodster
... i voted partly as a kick back at the Germans.

What are you kicking them back for?

woodster - 26/6/16 at 11:39 AM

I've always felt that as a rule people only really do anything that ultimately benefits them and really the main beneficiary of the Euro project was the Germans, that's why they champion it and mainly bankroll it and why wouldn't they ? They've got a huge captive market for their goods ? ...

woodster - 26/6/16 at 11:55 AM

https://euobserver.com/economic/125125

coozer - 26/6/16 at 12:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
I'm overjoyed here, up all night in the truck listening to it unfold...

And I'm quite chuffed to see the power of the Sunderland people crashing the pound when the declaration was revealed

Glad I bought 3000 euros in Jan when they were 1.40...

However I do not see any problems as we go forward, currency will recover and stock markets will recover to go on making millions for the elite...

Only thing I worry about now is WHO can guide us in the right direction....

I'm very puzzled Coozer. I distinctly remember you celebrating when Thatcher died. Yet now you seem to support Farage, who is, in his own words, 'keeping the flame of thatcherism alive'. Have you had a political change of heart?

Puzzled? About what?? I'm no fan of Farage but I do think he's funny...

Thatcher ruined our county closing all the pits and shipyards giving us nothing back and I was a labour supporter back then...

I have changed as the current Tory government have done me good with raising personal allowance and minimum wage. Also helped me get into my ltd company... Since ukip came on the scene I've been voting for our local candidate in the council elections as ive known him since school and he's a good lad. Our local incumbent labour council are smug and useless, looking after each other like a bunch of old folk on a day trip. They need a shock shakeup... Our mayorial car wears OGRI on the reg plate! How much did that cost??

I did vote for Cameroon in the last election but not sure which way to go in the future.

I voted leave because I don't like the federal EU and could only see it getting worse.

Steve126 - 26/6/16 at 11:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz

quote:
Originally posted by Steve126

quote:
Originally posted by scootz

This just shows what a bloody idiot Susanna Reid is. She doesn't seem to understand that we have just had a referendum not a general election. Nobody voted for an individual, a party or an alternative government and the vote going the way you wanted doesn't put you in charge.

Farage didn't promise to spend �350million per week on the NHS and as he isn't in government (he isn't even an MP) he has no more control over the NHS budget than she does.

What makes it even more depressing is that most of the people who have commented on this on YouTube seem to be every bit as stupid as Susanna Reid is.

Easy tiger!

Although not an official member of the Leave campaign team, Farage was still one of the most prominent Brexit drummer-boys. Reid has EVERY right to discuss the (frankly ridiculous) poster campaign that was run by his allies. Look at it...

Are you telling me that the gullible - and there are feckin millions of them - wouldn't have been influenced somewhat by such a poster!?

And he doesn't need to be a MP, a Govt minister, or an NHS manager to be qualified to say during interview that it was complete and utter bullshit.

I didn't say she doesn't have the right to discuss the poster and I agree the poster is ridiculous, just as many of the claims made by the other side were ridiculous.

No, I'm not telling you that gullible people won't have been influenced by the poster. However, there are also gullible people on the other side - A woman on the news yesterday was upset that we are leaving the EU and said "There is going to be a war in Europe now. Was leaving the EU so important that it is worth us having to go to war?" She had clearly believed David Cameron's suggestion that us leaving the EU could lead to conflict in Europe. The idea that they only avoid killing each other because we are in the union with them seems rather insulting!

You have missed my point when you say that he doesn't need to be a government minister etc to say the poster is bullshit.

He said during a TV debate that Vote Leave were wrong to treat it like a general election making claims about what they would do and how money would be spent when it was nothing more than a referendum on whether we should leave the EU.

My point was that Reid either didn't know what she was talking about or exploited the situation to create a story. If you ask someone who doesn't control the nations finances if he can guarantee he will do a particular thing with the nations finances it is hardly a surprise when the answer is "no". She seemed to think the poster was his advert but it was the work of Vote Leave who refused to have anything to do with him, so why should he take the flack for their dodgy claims?

britishtrident - 27/6/16 at 04:26 AM

The main purpose of what is now the EU was to stop another war in Europe in the 19th and 20th centuries alone Germany speaking states and the French had been in major territorial wars with each other five times, three times started by the French and twice by what is now Germany with Austria. Austria amd what is now Italy had their own conflicts.
It is often forgotten but one of the main prime movers in establishment of what is now the EU was Winston Churchill.
In post WW2 Europe was on its' knees and there was a ruthless mad egotist in the Kremlin (nothing changes), in the 1950's although NATO had been established the relationship between the USA and the French was poor, post Suez the French pulled out of NATO, Franco US relations at one stage were so poor it came very close to shots being exchanged between US and French fighter jets.
In more recent times the USA has used Britains influence in the EU to stiffen the Europes comittment to defense and response to terrorism.

When out of the EU the UK will face having to defend Gibraltar again and Spannish sabre ratting over Gib may give the the Argies the courage to stir things up it the South Atlantic

[Edited on 27/6/16 by britishtrident]

MikeRJ - 27/6/16 at 10:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Its completely different the whole leave campaign has been based on false bullshit promises.

And so was the "Remain" campaign. Do you honestly believe everything that politicians tell you during political campaigns?

JoelP - 27/6/16 at 11:05 AM

Sterling is now at a 31 year low against the dollar. This is just the effect of the turmoil, nothing to do with how messed up it will be when we actually see FDI collapse and a deep recession.

Experts said we'd be shafted, Gove said ignore them - guess what? We are shafted.

britishtrident - 27/6/16 at 12:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Sterling is now at a 31 year low against the dollar. This is just the effect of the turmoil, nothing to do with how messed up it will be when we actually see FDI collapse and a deep recession.

Experts said we'd be shafted, Gove said ignore them - guess what? We are shafted.

Gove not sleazy, just creepy!
I bet he got a hard time a school.....................................

BenB - 27/6/16 at 02:52 PM

My concern currently is the toxic mix of a power vacuum, a swing towards an inwards looking xenophobic stance and an economic downturn. If that's not a recipe for disaster then what is. I would mention a specific time when this occurred but it is allegedly the end of any sensible internet discussion...

You only have to look at the increase in race-related attacks / upswing in NF/IDL activity etc to see who is really trying to make the most of this situation and what kind of thinking was (at least in some cases) at the root of people's decision to vote Leave.

The whole leave campaign was about "them" and "us"- separating humans rather than unifying. About how "they" (EU) control what we can do, how "they" (migrants) take all our jobs/money/houses etc.

Sad times......

02GF74 - 27/6/16 at 09:11 PM

At least we have the football to look forward too ..... oh wait a moment, weve just brexitted out of that too. Just need the queen to die for the icing on the cake.

Ivan - 28/3/19 at 04:34 AM

To use a South African expression - Ag shame guys - how's it going for you now? What a joke. Trust the politicians to screw it up right royally.

Mr Whippy - 28/3/19 at 07:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

Much the same reason your president wants to build a big wall...

Some claim it was to do with EU policies (99% of people have no idea what EU polices even are) but really it's just there were so many foreigners getting in and reacting to scary headlines in the news. Same old

[Edited on 28/3/19 by Mr Whippy]

SJ - 28/3/19 at 08:17 PM

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

Much the same reason your president wants to build a big wall...

Some claim it was to do with EU policies (99% of people have no idea what EU polices even are) but really it's just there were so many foreigners getting in and reacting to scary headlines in the news. Same old

Whilst that is clearly the case for some people I think it over simplifies things i.e just saying everyone who voted leave is xenophobic. The EU / UK relationship has been pretty toxic for some time, as shown by even the most pro EU parties not standing up and publicly stating they support what the EU is trying to achieve.

Also successive UK governments have quite happily blamed the EU when resources are stretched due to immigration, when they should have been investing billions in infrastructure.

SteveWalker - 28/3/19 at 10:26 PM

I feel that immigration is too high, we are short of housing (resulting in building on green belt land), roads are overcrowded, school places are far too limited. More *could* have been done to invest in new infrastructure, but that will never solve the basic problem that there are too many people in a small overpopulated island and importing large numbers more cannot help but make things worse.

My own personal examples are:
a) living in the same area for all my life, marrying a woman who has also done so. Our first son went to the school that my wife and her sister attended, which was undersubscribed. The school is attached to the church that my in-laws attended all their married life, where my wife and her sister were baptised, confirmed, where we were married (and her sister and her husband were), where our children were baptised and where we have attended church, where my wife was a catechist. So we have a lot of connections with both school and church, but our second son was refused a place alongside his brother, as we are 75 yards outside the catchment area (despite distance and travel being easier than the school whose area we are in) and applications had gone up from 23 to 56 in only three years, due almost entirely to East European families moving to the area.
b) The green space at the heart of our town has also been put under threat as a consequent shortage of homes in the area has now been identified and it was earmarked for 750 homes - despite traffic on all roads around it queueing every day (and no space to widen and improve the roads) and all the schools being oversubscribed.

We need immigration, particularly of highly skilled professionals, but we also need limits. While we are in the EU, we cannot limit immigration from within it.

Mr Whippy - 29/3/19 at 07:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by SJ

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Texan
I've been following closely. So tell this Texan what was THE issue that you think caused you guys to exit?

Much the same reason your president wants to build a big wall...

Some claim it was to do with EU policies (99% of people have no idea what EU polices even are) but really it's just there were so many foreigners getting in and reacting to scary headlines in the news. Same old

Whilst that is clearly the case for some people I think it over simplifies things i.e just saying everyone who voted leave is xenophobic. The EU / UK relationship has been pretty toxic for some time, as shown by even the most pro EU parties not standing up and publicly stating they support what the EU is trying to achieve.

Also successive UK governments have quite happily blamed the EU when resources are stretched due to immigration, when they should have been investing billions in infrastructure.

I don't think it was some people, I think it was just about everyone... those who didn't want to admit that was the case spouted some EU directive about fishing, wonky banana's... blah blah but it was nothing more than keep the foreigners out. Yeah I have a low opinion on peoples motives but that's what people are like.

SJ - 29/3/19 at 08:50 AM

quote:

I don't think it was some people, I think it was just about everyone... those who didn't want to admit that was the case spouted some EU directive about fishing, wonky banana's... blah blah but it was nothing more than keep the foreigners out. Yeah I have a low opinion on peoples motives but that's what people are like.

Maybe where you live. I don't see that here.

swanny - 29/3/19 at 10:55 AM

that reminds me of novelist will self in that awful stare off with the government MP. self stated that not everyone who voted for brexit was racist, but that everyone who was racist voted for brexit.

JoelP - 29/3/19 at 11:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by swanny
that reminds me of novelist will self in that awful stare off with the government MP. self stated that not everyone who voted for brexit was racist, but that everyone who was racist voted for brexit.

I can't see any reason why a racist or xenophobe would vote to Remain in the EU, and certainly none of the numerous racist groups on Facebook are campaigning to Remain.

SJ - 29/3/19 at 12:06 PM

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by swanny
that reminds me of novelist will self in that awful stare off with the government MP. self stated that not everyone who voted for brexit was racist, but that everyone who was racist voted for brexit.

I can't see any reason why a racist or xenophobe would vote to Remain in the EU, and certainly none of the numerous racist groups on Facebook are campaigning to Remain.

Problem it the term has been misused to shut down debate which allows both those who are racist to more easily deny it and makes it harder for those who have wider concerns to express them.

Shame really.

SJ - 29/3/19 at 12:38 PM

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by SJ
quote:

I don't think it was some people, I think it was just about everyone... those who didn't want to admit that was the case spouted some EU directive about fishing, wonky banana's... blah blah but it was nothing more than keep the foreigners out. Yeah I have a low opinion on peoples motives but that's what people are like.

Maybe where you live. I don't see that here.

Do you live outside the UK...?

No, I don't. Seems to me UK is one of the more tolerant places to live. Certainly the South East of England anyway. Haven't lived anywhere else for some time to hard to say for other areas.

Mr Whippy - 29/3/19 at 12:50 PM

I have heard comments from people, at work, friends & even family members that would curl your toes. I even worked for the local bus company for 4 years and when they had a lot of Polish driver taking the overtime, swastikas were left on walls and windows...I kid you not

I voted to remain in the EU. After the disastrous events of the last century. To have previous bitter enemy's now working together for the benefits of all was such an achievement. There's no question the were still issues to resolve but I think brexit is a huge set back. As for immigration I think the focus should have been on dealing with the reasons (long ago) which made people want to emigrate in the first place and the EU helping those countries improve so people want to stay.

woodster - 3/4/19 at 09:14 PM

I�ll be honest I voted leave as a protest vote .. I realised early on in the brexit vote that both sides were lying and treating the general voting public with total contempt which I guess they always have ... the government and MPs have become so detached from the public, fiddling their expenses and quiet happily serving their own interests only begrudgingly engaging with the great unwashed when they needed the vote .... any way I voted leave to kick Cameron in the nutsack and to hopefully show these knob Ed�s for what they are ... not worth a W�nk and they�ve proved that in spades ..... all I�ve ever done in over 40years of working hard is to pay for these idiots and con men ..... F&CK EM!!!

Mr Whippy - 4/4/19 at 06:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by woodster
I�ll be honest I voted leave as a protest vote .. I realised early on in the brexit vote that both sides were lying and treating the general voting public with total contempt which I guess they always have ... the government and MPs have become so detached from the public, fiddling their expenses and quiet happily serving their own interests only begrudgingly engaging with the great unwashed when they needed the vote .... any way I voted leave to kick Cameron in the nutsack and to hopefully show these knob Ed�s for what they are ... not worth a W�nk and they�ve proved that in spades ..... all I�ve ever done in over 40years of working hard is to pay for these idiots and con men ..... F&CK EM!!!

Thing is, your vote to leave the EU would not solve any of the above.

The vote was actually about leaving the EU, if this meant the people of the UK would be politically and economically better off than staying a part of that union. The repercussions of that vote will affect future generations for decades. It was not about trying to teach UK politicians a ineffective lesson.

steve m - 4/4/19 at 07:11 AM

Whether we stay or leave, I cant stand all this bickering with those idiots in Westminster, why cant they just get on with the job that was decided two years ago, and get us out

WallerZero - 4/4/19 at 07:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Whether we stay or leave, I cant stand all this bickering with those idiots in Westminster, why cant they just get on with the job that was decided two years ago, and get us out

Lets say Locost Builders did a poll that asked if we all wanted to build a car together or not to build a car. Thats all we were asked. Build a car won.

So where do we start? What are we basing it on? Racecar? SUV? Track or Road? What engine? Gearbox? FWD? RWD? AWD? What tyres? Brakes? You see where I'm going with this? We agreed to do something without a plan. But why can't we just get on a build a car? Its what we wanted, right? We voted to build a car!

Thats my analogy of Brexit. So many people had a different vision yet had no valid plan. Even with a basic plan, it relied on the EU agreeing to that. The deal by T.May pleases no one. It "removes" us from the EU but retains close ties with them so keeps remain camp happy. Best of both worlds or worst of each? Reality is its not enough for leavers and for remainers it seems pointless. Nobody wins.

Lets not forget though, this is all just for how we leave the EU, not a binding future relationship, that comes next. The EU could work towards a Free Trade Agreement and simply put the 4 freedoms back on the table..... Imagine if the only way to achieve a FTA was to accept free movement of people again...........

coyoteboy - 4/4/19 at 08:52 AM

I'm sure we'll be fine in the long run.
I don't think we'll be any better off, probably worse, and in the short term we'll have suffered a lot.

I know very few people who voted to leave that have done so on any sensible justification (or can even articulate their justification properly), most that I speak to have completely mis-informed understanding of how the entire system works and what benefits we take from the EU, they only see the negatives.

Let's hope we do manage to pull it back together because it's largely the older generation who voted for this, largely on the back of some daft view that we were great before (jesus, trump-mania invades the UK) and ignoring the financial and stability damage it will do for those who will live here after they're gone.

SJ - 4/4/19 at 09:24 AM

quote:

I'm sure we'll be fine in the long run.
I don't think we'll be any better off, probably worse, and in the short term we'll have suffered a lot.

I know very few people who voted to leave that have done so on any sensible justification (or can even articulate their justification properly), most that I speak to have completely mis-informed understanding of how the entire system works and what benefits we take from the EU, they only see the negatives.

Let's hope we do manage to pull it back together because it's largely the older generation who voted for this, largely on the back of some daft view that we were great before (jesus, trump-mania invades the UK) and ignoring the financial and stability damage it will do for those who will live here after they're gone.

I agree it probably won't make much difference in the long run. The point about why people voted one way or another apples to remain as well though. Remaining is presented as a steady state option but in reality it isn't. Continued membership will come with pressure for ever closer integration including adoption of the Euro which parliament has usually embraced. Not saying this would necessarily be a bad thing but there are very few politicians standing up and telling the truth on what ongoing membership means.

Mr Whippy - 4/4/19 at 11:42 AM

It will all be sorted if we build a big wall

Theshed - 4/4/19 at 05:37 PM

The Romans did that...

mark chandler - 4/4/19 at 06:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
I'm sure we'll be fine in the long run.
I don't think we'll be any better off, probably worse, and in the short term we'll have suffered a lot.

I know very few people who voted to leave that have done so on any sensible justification (or can even articulate their justification properly), most that I speak to have completely mis-informed understanding of how the entire system works and what benefits we take from the EU, they only see the negatives.

Let's hope we do manage to pull it back together because it's largely the older generation who voted for this, largely on the back of some daft view that we were great before (jesus, trump-mania invades the UK) and ignoring the financial and stability damage it will do for those who will live here after they're gone.

I voted leave, if asked again I would vote leave again and I know exactly why I voted that this way thank you.

It's about time people showed more faith in the capability of this country.

James - 4/4/19 at 11:41 PM

Before the vote our CEO warned of the effects of leaving on our company of 600 employees.

3 years later...
We've held out as long as we could but with uncertainty causing customers to cancel orders we'd spent millions bidding on and also ESA (50% of our business) only giving work to companies in EU countries (so they've sensibly advised us not to risk bidding on further work as we'd spend millions on bidding) we're now doing redundancies...

Contractors and 20% of staff went last September and this month we're losing another 20% so by May we're down to about 300. That's 300 above averagely paid people no longer paying tax into our economy.

As for the redundant staff themselves... Does nostalgia for the 70's put food into children's bellies or pay the mortgage?

When I hear: "yeah, it may be tough in the short term but it'll be better in the long-term" from Leavers (based on what crystal ball I don't know) I'm not sure that'll put cornflakes on the table in time for the kids breakfast!

Seeya down the dole queue!

[Edited on 4/4/19 by James]

James - 4/4/19 at 11:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy

I know very few people who voted to leave that have done so on any sensible justification (or can even articulate their justification properly), most that I speak to have completely mis-informed understanding of how the entire system works and what benefits we take from the EU, they only see the negatives.

A relative of mine said she voted Leave because the Germans locked her Father up in POW camp.

Well you sure gave the 1940's Nazis one in the eye with your 2016 vote!

mark chandler - 5/4/19 at 04:34 PM

It's the uncertainty that is killing things, looks like another year of that now.

SJ - 6/4/19 at 10:44 AM

I think they will be a lot more uncertainty to come - we are bound to have either a GE or third referendum pretty soon, not that I can see either resolving anything.

[Edited on 6/4/19 by SJ]

MikeR - 6/4/19 at 05:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by WallerZero

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Whether we stay or leave, I cant stand all this bickering with those idiots in Westminster, why cant they just get on with the job that was decided two years ago, and get us out

Lets say Locost Builders did a poll that asked if we all wanted to build a car together or not to build a car. Thats all we were asked. Build a car won.

So where do we start? What are we basing it on? Racecar? SUV? Track or Road? What engine? Gearbox? FWD? RWD? AWD? What tyres? Brakes? You see where I'm going with this? We agreed to do something without a plan. But why can't we just get on a build a car? Its what we wanted, right? We voted to build a car!

Thats my analogy of Brexit. So many people had a different vision yet had no valid plan. Even with a basic plan, it relied on the EU agreeing to that. The deal by T.May pleases no one. It "removes" us from the EU but retains close ties with them so keeps remain camp happy. Best of both worlds or worst of each? Reality is its not enough for leavers and for remainers it seems pointless. Nobody wins.

Lets not forget though, this is all just for how we leave the EU, not a binding future relationship, that comes next. The EU could work towards a Free Trade Agreement and simply put the 4 freedoms back on the table..... Imagine if the only way to achieve a FTA was to accept free movement of people again...........

You missed a key point, we already have a car. It works. It's not perfect but you can rely on it.

SJ - 6/4/19 at 06:59 PM

Why does brexit bring out the analogy in people?

Mr Whippy - 6/4/19 at 09:52 PM

Politics

This why so many people would like a one way trip to Mars...