Looking for some advice from a sparky please!

My daughter lives in a small 2 bed property with storage heater & recently had the meter changed from a "pay as you go" type where you recharge a "key" to a standard meter.

Because it has a storage heater she asked to be put on a dual rate tariff but the supplier, British Gas, cocked up & put it on a single rate tariff, now my question is this, whilst the meter is on a single rate tariff does that mean that power would be available to the storage heater during normal daytime rates?
My understanding was that feeds from the meter were split if you were on a dual rate tariff & that there simply was no power to the heating side of a storage heater except when the night tariff kicked in, something like midnight to 7am, but that if on the single tariff then if the heater was on during the day it would still be drawing power?

Since the new meter was fitted her electricity bills have gone up dramatically, about 25 - 30% higher than when on the key meter last year, she's complained to British Gas who said, "oops, put you on the wrong tariff & they have now adjusted the bill down a little taking account that some of the power was used overnight, but am I correct that the storage heater would have been drawing power during the day when it shouldn't be on at all (I assume power for the fans is taken from a separate feed?)
If that's not the case how likely is it that the meter could be inaccurate? British Gas want to charge them £40 for the privilege of testing the meter if it turns out to be accurate, which would simply add insult to injury! If they attempt to test themselves by, say, turning everything off & then running a 2kW heater for an hour & checking meter readings b4 & after how accurate is that likely to be?

Any advice welcomed, BG just seem to be fobbing them off & insist that the very high charges are correct (around £900 a year to power an all electric very small 1 & 1/2 bed terraced house, modern, well insulated, only 2 outside walls)

In a previous house of mine we had economy 7. This only kicked in at around 10pm till about 6am from memory. Outside of those time it would be dead.

However British Gas are appalling when it comes to things like this. I would advise you to go through the ombudsman as it will be the only way you will get it resolved. Had to do it in the past and they came to an agreement in the end as it costs them money when them ombudsman gets involved.

In a previous house of mine we had economy 7. This only kicked in at around 10pm till about 6am from memory. Outside of those time it would be dead.

However British Gas are appalling when it comes to things like this. I would advise you to go through the ombudsman as it will be the only way you will get it resolved. Had to do it in the past and they came to an agreement in the end as it costs them money when them ombudsman gets involved.

I've got a single meter with dual readout. It supplies electricity 24 hours but records the day and night usage separately and my supplier bills me at two rates. There is no 'dead' period at all. So I guess it depends on the type of meter fitted. (my meter is quite modern, digital and was fitted within the last 10 years)

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Originally posted by ttalps2000
In a previous house of mine we had economy 7. This only kicked in at around 10pm till about 6am from memory. Outside of those time it would be dead.

However British Gas are appalling when it comes to things like this. I would advise you to go through the ombudsman as it will be the only way you will get it resolved. Had to do it in the past and they came to an agreement in the end as it costs them money when them ombudsman gets involved.

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The storage heater should only be taking a charge through the cheap tariff time at night. As long as you only have one meter and one supply the heater will be taking a charge all the time. This is why your bills will be much higher. If you can get the metering sorted out, it would worth considering changing them to the new Dimplex Quantum storage heaters. We are currently fitting lots of these for the local housing associations up in Aberdeen. These are quite dear to put in as they require two supplies, but are much cheaper to run and will pay for themselves in 4/5 years. These also give better temp control throughout the whole day.

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Originally posted by knight19770
The storage heater should only be taking a charge through the cheap tariff time at night. As long as you only have one meter and one supply the heater will be taking a charge all the time. This is why your bills will be much higher. If you can get the metering sorted out, it would worth considering changing them to the new Dimplex Quantum storage heaters. We are currently fitting lots of these for the local housing associations up in Aberdeen. These are quite dear to put in as they require two supplies, but are much cheaper to run and will pay for themselves in 4/5 years. These also give better temp control throughout the whole day.

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Properties that were originally wired for dual rate systems will have a second feed to the fuse box that is switched by the meter/timer. Generally the off peak emersion / storage heaters would be connected to that side of the system so that they only come on during off peak hours.

If the property only has a single feed to the fusebox then you will need to set timers for the items that you only want to come on during off peak, and make sure they are synced.

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Originally posted by phelpsa
Properties that were originally wired for dual rate systems will have a second feed to the fuse box that is switched by the meter/timer. Generally the off peak emersion / storage heaters would be connected to that side of the system so that they only come on during off peak hours.

If the property only has a single feed to the fusebox then you will need to set timers for the items that you only want to come on during off peak, and make sure they are synced.

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I think it basically comes down to "does the property have wiring which is specifically connected to an economy 7 feed and which only works during economy 7 hours"?

We had a dual rate meter in my current house when we moved in, one of the old fashioned big black box with analogue dial types (and we were on a dual rate elec tariff). But it was down to us to turn the storage heaters on/off at the right times to use the 'cheap' elec to heat them up.

We have subsequently removed the storage heaters/fitted gas central heating and had the house fully re-wired, including having a whole new elec supply put in from the edge of the property -which includes a new meter which is just a tiny white box with a couple of buttons and a digital display . We've also gone onto a single rate tarrif.

But the new digital display meter still produces two readings (you press the button to go through the different readings) - and I have to submit them both when giving my meter readings to my supplier.

Tarrif just determines what you pay for consumption.
The meter is showing what you've consumed
A dual meter allow for differenttaion of when the consumption happens.
How the electricity is actually sent around your propery is down to the wiring (but not down to the meter I assume?).

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Originally posted by russbost

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Originally posted by phelpsa
Properties that were originally wired for dual rate systems will have a second feed to the fuse box that is switched by the meter/timer. Generally the off peak emersion / storage heaters would be connected to that side of the system so that they only come on during off peak hours.

If the property only has a single feed to the fusebox then you will need to set timers for the items that you only want to come on during off peak, and make sure they are synced.

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So, if we check now & find that the feed to the storage heater & overnight hot water (separate element) are dead during daylight hours then that would mean there are 2 separate feeds to the property & changing the meter (providing it has both night & day rates, which this one has) or the tariff could have no effect on when the storage heater could be switched on?

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Originally posted by russbost

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Originally posted by phelpsa
Properties that were originally wired for dual rate systems will have a second feed to the fuse box that is switched by the meter/timer. Generally the off peak emersion / storage heaters would be connected to that side of the system so that they only come on during off peak hours.

If the property only has a single feed to the fusebox then you will need to set timers for the items that you only want to come on during off peak, and make sure they are synced.

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So, if we check now & find that the feed to the storage heater & overnight hot water (separate element) are dead during daylight hours then that would mean there are 2 separate feeds to the property & changing the meter (providing it has both night & day rates, which this one has) or the tariff could have no effect on when the storage heater could be switched on?

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So far as I am aware the property was originally wired for economy 7, for instance the second heating element in the hot tank, stays permanently switched on, but, I believe, was only ever actually on overnight, when they were on the key meter they were using substantially less electricity than they are now, the problem seems to coincide with changing the meter over (was done in July, but didn't become apparent with increased useage until Winter months) hence why I am suspicious that something has been done incorrectly, & the fact that they put them on a single tariff just increases that suspicion

I will check if the hot water & storage heater is getting fed during the day

Russ

A lot of modern storage heater systems will have one supply to the fuse box / consumer units. Inside the unit will be a contactor (something like this) that has a separate switching circuit (low current) to the meter. When the meter switches over to night mode, it switches the contactor on and this then powers up the storage heaters. This is usually cheaper than having two sets of meter tails if the consumer unit is a long way from the meter (multi storey flats where the meter is on the ground floor as an example).

When the meter switches over to night mode, all the circuits are on the 'cheap' rate. The contactor just switches on the storage heaters.

We own a couple of holiday flats (www.llanelli.holiday) that are like this - the supply from the meter (ground floor) to the second floor flat is done in armoured / SWA cable - it's a long run and expensive in armoured cable so you can understand why they chose the switching circuit method!


The meter will show you straight away if it's a dual tarriff one - there will be two readings or a button to scroll through the readings. If it's not dual fuel then get them back to fit the right one!

Wyn

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Originally posted by lsdweb
Russ

A lot of modern storage heater systems will have one supply to the fuse box / consumer units. Inside the unit will be a contactor (something like this) that has a separate switching circuit (low current) to the meter. When the meter switches over to night mode, it switches the contactor on and this then powers up the storage heaters. This is usually cheaper than having two sets of meter tails if the consumer unit is a long way from the meter (multi storey flats where the meter is on the ground floor as an example).

When the meter switches over to night mode, all the circuits are on the 'cheap' rate. The contactor just switches on the storage heaters.

We own a couple of holiday flats (www.llanelli.holiday) that are like this - the supply from the meter (ground floor) to the second floor flat is done in armoured / SWA cable - it's a long run and expensive in armoured cable so you can understand why they chose the switching circuit method!


The meter will show you straight away if it's a dual tarriff one - there will be two readings or a button to scroll through the readings. If it's not dual fuel then get them back to fit the right one!

Wyn

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The meter could be setup wrong and could be triggering at the wrong times.

Many thanks for everyone's assistance, as ever an invaluable mine of information!

Many thanks for everyone's assistance, as ever an invaluable mine of information!