Board logo

Garage metal clad sockets recommendation please
pigeondave - 5/11/20 at 05:52 PM

Hi all,

I'm looking to get more power to the garage and was wondering about the different prices of double sockets.

I have my eye on 5 of these
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CM3356.html

But are they cheap for a reason, MK metal clad are £13 a pop, its quite a jump.

The feed to the garage is plenty man enough for 5 doubles, as its coming out the 3phase box in the bakery.

Just looking for a fair priced metal clad socket recommendation.

Thanks

David Jenkins - 5/11/20 at 05:56 PM

Do they have to be metal-clad? You're paying a premium for that decorative feature.

Ordinary twin sockets from reputable makers are as cheap as chips.

joneh - 5/11/20 at 06:21 PM

I've had stuff from TLC, it's been good in the past. Say British made with 25 year guarantee. Not sure about the British made part , but 25 years sounds like they're built to last.

nick205 - 5/11/20 at 07:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Do they have to be metal-clad? You're paying a premium for that decorative feature.

Ordinary twin sockets from reputable makers are as cheap as chips.



Good point - I fitted a load of MK domestic double sockets in my garage. They're robust enough and more than up to the job. Metal clad ones seem OTT for a garage really. We even have a couple of outdoor power sockets and they're certainly not metal clad.

Myke 2463 - 5/11/20 at 07:37 PM

Screwfix £4.99 13A 2-Gang SP Switched Metal Clad Socket with White Inserts (69127)

cliftyhanger - 5/11/20 at 08:06 PM

I would use Double Pole (DP) switched sockets. Many are SP.
DP disconnects live and neutral, which is preferable. But not essential.

If you chose to use plastic surface boxes, avoid the cheap crappy ones. They crack/break just for a laugh, or the brass screw inserts pull out. You can (or could) get PVC ones which are much more durable.

Charlie_Zetec - 6/11/20 at 12:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Myke 2463
Screwfix £4.99 13A 2-Gang SP Switched Metal Clad Socket with White Inserts (69127)


^ These are what I've used in my garage, complete with the metal trunking along the ceiling, and plastic conduit to the boxes (new build garage/extension, so had to comply with building regs).

Wouldn't bother with plastic boxes in the workplace, as they tend to break with any sort of knock/impact.

I love the MK bits, and have used their faceplates in the house when I re-wired, but couldn't justify the extra expense on their metal boxes when the above were significant cheaper. I have also found that the MK faceplates are specifically designed for their surface-mount backboxes, so mixing & matching manufacturers when assembling doesn't always look pretty or fit well.

rusty nuts - 6/11/20 at 08:20 AM

Might be a good idea to fit one or two with USB charging points built in?

pigeondave - 6/11/20 at 08:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Might be a good idea to fit one or two with USB charging points built in?


They're a nice idea but pricey, but could prove useful. I'll have another think.

quote:
Originally posted by Myke 2463
Screwfix £4.99 13A 2-Gang SP Switched Metal Clad Socket with White Inserts (69127)


I saw these but wondered about how robust they were. Hence the question on the thread. Thanks for the info.


quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Metal clad ones seem OTT for a garage really.


Metal clad just looks right in a garage though

nick205 - 6/11/20 at 08:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Might be a good idea to fit one or two with USB charging points built in?



They're always more expensive and most households seem to have an abundance of USB chargers (we do). I pilfered a couple for the garage and just made sure I fitted sockets in the right places on the wall. Left the USB chargers plugged in with cables handy for charging phones the odd cycle light and even a tablet if needed. Every time you replace your mobile phone you still have the old charger and USB charger cable - use them.

I should add that my garage is integral to my house and my household consumer unit is also in the garage. This made installing the wiring easier and the garage had it's own circuit. I also installed with the wiring in surface mounted flat conduit.



[Edited on 6/11/20 by nick205]

steve m - 6/11/20 at 08:57 AM

I dont know how any one can break a patrice box and socket plate, as i have never done so! nor seen it, and i worked for an electrician

My garage has normal white Mk sockets, and ive never had a problem with any of them, nor anywhere else in the house, and in the 34 years we have been in this house/garage ive rebuilt several Minis, a couple of motorbikes, and made a Locost from scratch, and never had an issue!

As for the Usb plates, we have a couple in the house, and in the garage, and ive never paid more than £9 each for them

Unless your garage is going to be a full on industrial workshop with 3 phase machinery, etc, metal boxs imho are a total waste of money

steve

gremlin1234 - 6/11/20 at 10:46 AM

I dislike the built in usb sockets, since
a) typically they take a constant 2W load - even when not in use *
b) only dumb slow charging
c) have to replace the whole socket when the usb bit fails

* they tend to use a capacitive dropper psu, since they are small and cheep.
plugin chargers tend to use switch mode psu, which are more efficient, and allow for higher power (fast charging)

I say, just use a plugin charger

nick205 - 6/11/20 at 11:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
I dislike the built in usb sockets, since
a) typically they take a constant 2W load - even when not in use *
b) only dumb slow charging
c) have to replace the whole socket when the usb bit fails

* they tend to use a capacitive dropper psu, since they are small and cheep.
plugin chargers tend to use switch mode psu, which are more efficient, and allow for higher power (fast charging)

I say, just use a plugin charger



Valid points I'd say + as I mentioned above most households have a surplus of plugin USB chargers kicking about. Save the electric waste and landfill and use them instead. The plugin USB charger Samsung supplied with my current mobile will charge the phone in a couple of hours.

SteveWalker - 6/11/20 at 12:18 PM

Built-in chargers have the great advantage that they do not get taken off by your children to other rooms and leave you searching for them after they have gone to sleep!

Bigheppy - 6/11/20 at 02:55 PM

I got a bundle of metal MK sockets from a car boot. Think I paid £2 for 10. All have been found to be in perfect working order. I think many were hardly used. The only issue is that they are Gold

gremlin1234 - 6/11/20 at 03:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Built-in chargers have the great advantage that they do not get taken off by your children to other rooms and leave you searching for them after they have gone to sleep!
but they may take the charging wire that plugged into it ;-(

pigeondave - 6/11/20 at 03:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Built-in chargers have the great advantage that they do not get taken off by your children to other rooms and leave you searching for them after they have gone to sleep!


The garage is at the (family) bakery and I'm the only one that goes in there really, so its not a massive issue.



Thanks all for chatting this one through, I'm going to go with the linked ones, they're reasonably priced for metal and I fancied metal.

I would ask should I get 3phase piped down there as I have two spare slots on the board in the bakery, but I don't want to start an argument amongst you all

Thanks again everyone

gremlin1234 - 7/11/20 at 12:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by pigeondavebut I don't want to start an argument amongst you all
nope, no arguments, just good honest discussion

cliftyhanger - 7/11/20 at 06:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by pigeondave
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Built-in chargers have the great advantage that they do not get taken off by your children to other rooms and leave you searching for them after they have gone to sleep!


The garage is at the (family) bakery and I'm the only one that goes in there really, so its not a massive issue.



Thanks all for chatting this one through, I'm going to go with the linked ones, they're reasonably priced for metal and I fancied metal.

I would ask should I get 3phase piped down there as I have two spare slots on the board in the bakery, but I don't want to start an argument amongst you all

Thanks again everyone


You are local to me, I was at Denmays yesterday.....

Be careful about linking to the bakery. I suspect commercial electrical testing is quite fussy?
But 3 phase would be a lovely idea, plenty of quality kit out there that us single phase people can't buy, so tends to be very cheap. Lifts/compressors/welders even lathes/milling machines.

indykid - 7/11/20 at 11:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by pigeondave
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Built-in chargers have the great advantage that they do not get taken off by your children to other rooms and leave you searching for them after they have gone to sleep!


The garage is at the (family) bakery and I'm the only one that goes in there really, so its not a massive issue.

Thanks all for chatting this one through, I'm going to go with the linked ones, they're reasonably priced for metal and I fancied metal.

I would ask should I get 3phase piped down there as I have two spare slots on the board in the bakery, but I don't want to start an argument amongst you all

Thanks again everyone


You are local to me, I was at Denmays yesterday.....

Be careful about linking to the bakery. I suspect commercial electrical testing is quite fussy?
But 3 phase would be a lovely idea, plenty of quality kit out there that us single phase people can't buy, so tends to be very cheap. Lifts/compressors/welders even lathes/milling machines.


I now have a 3 phase lathe, 3 phase milling machine and 3 phase pedestal grinder all running off VFDs. I've also made a pottery wheel and that's 3 phase too.

Even if I had 3 phase out to the garage, I'd still want to run them on 3 phase to 3 phase VFDs as the speed control and braking makes the tools so much more usable.

Unless you need to run mega horsepower industrial kit, I don't see the value in running the cable and switch gear (but I do have metal clad sockets )

SteveWalker - 7/11/20 at 11:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
Built-in chargers have the great advantage that they do not get taken off by your children to other rooms and leave you searching for them after they have gone to sleep!
but they may take the charging wire that plugged into it ;-(


But what are they going to plug them into? Anyway it's easy to buy leads in abundance from the pound shop and they can have as many as they like!

pigeondave - 17/11/20 at 02:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
I dislike the built in usb sockets, since
a) typically they take a constant 2W load - even when not in use *
b) only dumb slow charging
c) have to replace the whole socket when the usb bit fails

* they tend to use a capacitive dropper psu, since they are small and cheep.
plugin chargers tend to use switch mode psu, which are more efficient, and allow for higher power (fast charging)

I say, just use a plugin charger


There seems to be a better alternative now according to this video (it's in the right place)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIsTK42o8g0&t=297s

Seems these new ones will do fast charging
https://www.hamilton-litestat.com/decorative-wiring-accessories/eurofix/usb-power-sockets-modules/

Wonder if they still have a parasitic draw?

gremlin1234 - 17/11/20 at 06:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pigeondave
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
I dislike the built in usb sockets, since
a) typically they take a constant 2W load - even when not in use *
b) only dumb slow charging
c) have to replace the whole socket when the usb bit fails

* they tend to use a capacitive dropper psu, since they are small and cheep.
plugin chargers tend to use switch mode psu, which are more efficient, and allow for higher power (fast charging)

I say, just use a plugin charger


There seems to be a better alternative now according to this video (it's in the right place)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIsTK42o8g0&t=297s

Seems these new ones will do fast charging
https://www.hamilton-litestat.com/decorative-wiring-accessories/eurofix/usb-power-sockets-modules/

Wonder if they still have a parasitic draw?

I watched that and its follow up video, they tested 4 together and it was a total for all 4, 1W, so better than the older ones.
but the 13A sockets still only do 5V usb

as I have said previously, I prefer a plug in charger that I can turn off or remove

[Edited on 17/11/20 by gremlin1234]

v8kid - 18/11/20 at 02:18 PM

Back to the sockets, you would have to be very silly not to use metal-clad. I'm an electrical engineer and I've seen umpteen cracked plastic sockets but to put it in perspective, never a directly connected fatality, although I've heard about them

Toolstation metal-clad are good I fitted them in my garage and in the kids garage as well.

Remember to make sure you have a metal-clad fuse board ( mandatory due to fire regs) with a min of 1 RCD protecting the sockets. New regs require RCD on lighting circuits as well.

When wiring to the sockets the wiring will have to be mechanically protected and for the sake of a few quid whats not to like about fitting plastic conduit where liable to damage?

Check the loop impedance, if its poor all the protection in the world is worse than useless, worse cos you think its safe when its not.

After all that doom and gloom if you can make a kit car this should easily be within your capabilities if you do your research.

Happy Sparks

Cheers!

SteveWalker - 18/11/20 at 04:15 PM

While conduit is good practice, there is no requirement for conduit or any mechanical protection for surface mounted T&E, unless the regulations have changed. Indeed, although RCDs are required for sockets or for cables buried less than 50mm into walls, I don't think they are needed for surface mounted cables - probably because there is no danger of someone accidentally knocking a nail into one or drilling through it.

In my own case, I have used both conduit and RCBO though and I do think it would be daft not to.

v8kid - 18/11/20 at 04:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
there is no requirement for conduit or any mechanical protection for surface mounted T&E,


Oh yes there is and always was when required!

You can interpret mechanical protection however you like and when required however you like but ignoring best practice gives little wriggle room.

Mechanical protection, as distinct from electrical protection, takes many forms, whether it is the metal plates we fit over dwangs where cables pass through or trunking at a main board or simply not running cables where they are liable to damage.

Look at it this way, if you deliberately run a cable where you know it is liable to damage, say right beside a blacksmiths anvil, and the blacksmith misses, hits the cable and is fried when he picks up his hammer can you say hand on heart you have no complicity in his demise?

So where there is a reasonable likelihood of damage the cable should be protected. In a workshop, we can reasonably say that is everything below the ceiling level, in some circumstances even the ceiling would not be safe from mech damage ( thinking of a scaffolding store with long heavy pipes being stored.)

So the upshot of this tiresome rant is - mechanically and electrically protect in workshops it's quicker than going one way to A&E.

Cheers!

SteveWalker - 18/11/20 at 06:50 PM

While I would not install without protection anyway, there is a big difference between a commercial workshop (with health and safety requirements) and a home workshop/garage. Practically it makes sense to protect, but there is no requirement to.

Home and workplace fall under different requirements. All my garage and shed sockets and lighting and sockets are both RCBO protected and protected by conduit (my choice), but the garage lighting is standard fluorescent tubes, without protective covers - which would not be accepted at such a low level in a commercial workshop.