Selling a house at the moment and have just been told the buyer want to drop their offer by 30% based on a homebuyers report.
Either I rectify every issue in the report or accept their offer...
Trouble is, most of the "RED" items are not rectifiable because there is no fault listed. The surveyor has simply stated every fault that
"could" occur and then said he cant confirm or deny either way.....
What the heck am I supposed to do with this!?
Here is an example of a "Red - Fix immediately" item in the report.
quote:
Ground (predominantly) and first floors suspended timber. Some solid components to ground
floor in part. Floors have no thermal upgrade properties to meet current Regulations typical of
age. We have assumed that a conventional damp proof course in place. This may contain
bituminous type product and have asbestos trace although predominantly enclosed not
considered significant risk
Floors noted to have minor “spring”. This is considered generally acceptable for limits of domestic
construction given age. Future strengthening works may be of benefit.
No significant deflection identified to floor where tested. Minor trend of deflection to the floors
somewhat commensurate with age and style as per expectation.
No significant related works
considered necessary. Some improvement with strutting works may be of benefit. We have
presumed no extensive use of inferior boarding or chip boarding etc which is prone to related
defect, particularly if in contact with damp.
We are unable to verify all sub floor timbers free from significant defect.. The potential for defects
being present to inaccessible timbers cannot be ruled out. Timbers in contact with damp at risk
from rot.
Acoustic properties between floors likely limiting with presumed no insulation upgrade as per
original construction. Floor coverings may include chipboard floors which are prone to impact
damage and should be suitably protected in areas where dampness is present e.g. beneath
bathrooms etc. Future upgrade or replacement of any such flooring would be prudent which will
help to provide a more homogenous timber floor.
Older style or hidden vinyl may contain asbestos trace. Basic and incomplete junctions etc.
Some improvement in subfloor ventilation may be benefit. External repairs to lower point of walls
in areas to be expected. Risk of hidden defect. Although no extensive defection / spring.
Improvement in rigidity nonetheless considered of future benefit. Based upon age, herring bone
strutting may not be in place. Future precautionary strengthening works may be of benefit.
Dampness to low level to elements if the perimeter walls identified. Risk of related defects to the
subfloor timbers. Precautionary exposure works considered prudent.
Politely tell them where they can stick their report?
Just reads as a list of items commensurate with property age, not as a list of repairs that need doing. Though I would say it looks like they're
recommending insulation under floorboards. Either way, they take it as is, or leave it.
Mine was similar when I bought it, at the asking price. I know what I'm buying, I know what it's worth, the report was worth nothing to
me.
[Edited on 14/1/21 by coyoteboy]
Here's another "Red" item
How can you expect an 80 year old house to comply with current regulations!? Am I supposed to tear out the stairs and re-build them... Hahah!
quote:
Some doors are in need of minor adjustment as bind slightly during operation.
Dated style and provides considered minimal fire resistance. Ironmongery operational although some loose
elements. Some handles loose to doors. Joinery elsewhere includes skirtings, architraves etc.
No serious defects identified.
The internal decorations are considered dated. Lead based products
cannot be discounted which present risk to health if removed.
Low level glazing and panel glazing cannot be confirmed as appropriate specification in critical
locations, and upgrade may be desirable.
Appropriate repairs necessary
Staircase may not comply with current regulation, although fit for purpose.
Doors have limiting fire resistance. C 34mm Some minor gaps to doors noted, increasing risk of
fire spread. Glazing to doors and specification to be upgraded as best advice. Upgrade
considered of benefit.
Open plan kitchen / diner increased fire risk and to be reviewed.
General review to provide protected means of escape considered prudent.
I suspect it's a case that they list every potential fault because their insurer/legal team had told them to so they are covered if things fall
apart.
I'd put house back on the market
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
Selling a house at the moment and have just been told the buyer want to drop their offer by 30% based on a homebuyers report.
Either I rectify every issue in the report or accept their offer...
If you're going to rectify bits and bobs, you should get it signed off by someone.
This surveyors don't have xray specs and like has been said, assume the worst. eg there's talk of chipboard floors, I would have a guess
that a 40's house has floor boards but STILL mentions it. They're just covering arse as most in the industry do.
Best one is when they ask for a structural engineers report. What's are they going to do? Unless the owner is willing to allow for a intrusive
survey the engineer dons the x-ray specs and writes an equally arse covering report.
Now a days people look at the decoration of the house to see if its modern, if its not they'll give a stupid offer.
Fix the loose doors ease the sticky one. Paint the walls white stick 10k on the price
I think now a days you're selling an idea.
It's just bull shit. Another way of covering arses.
If your buyer doesn't want the house, tell em that's the price we are selling it at take it or leave it.
My house is typical 1920's, no insulation/DPC/anything really. Just doesn't conform to expectations of a newer regulated build, in any way,
period.
It generates and generated similar reports, which I'm sure will be detrimental to getting a smooth sale. Thing is, I bought the house knowing all
the aged warts, because the house was perfect in more important ways, ways more important to me.
If in your shoes, I'd take the hit and progress if you really wanted to sell it, nothing like money on the table. If there's no real need
to sell, tell the buyers there's no reduction. If they want the house, that's what it'll cost them.
Depends if you're desperate to sell or what the market is like.
I'd tell them not to buy it.
Take a deep breath and relax. They're trying it on and why not?
Looks like a copy and paste job that's been reused. Full of maybes of potential problems and recommendation for improvement, I don't see any
items that clearly state must be fixed.
Obviously as annoying as it is, both the buyer and seller have an interest in this going through. Your costs up to now should be 0, the buyer would
be paying for the survey so would be out of pocket.
Did you get much interest and offers?
Respond to each item in the report pointing out that it is a recommendation or conjecture. There may be asbestos, so what? there may be a cannister
of nuclear waste under the living room, but again there may not. State clearly you are not paying for what may not exist.
When I was selling a property, my effing useless estate agents wanted me to pay for an extensive report. WTF?? I am paying for a report for the buyer
to use against me to drop the price?? I DON'T THINK SO. This stalemate was resolved by buyer applying for a mortgage with a different building
society that did a cursory glance.
Is your property of a similar asking price to similar properties near you?
If so why even bother with what it says? It is just a list of things to justify the prices they charge.
It's not a surveyors report, it's just the junk mortgage companies want to say that the property is standing.
I am going through the selling and buying process now, but we discussed all these stunts before we put it on the market. We've had estate agents
playing my wife and I against each other, buyers who've been watching way to many home shows on TV and strange questions from solicitors.
But we decided between ourselves what we'd do of things happened. So any talk of reducing offers, for whatever reason then find themselves
another house. Any delaying the process that's going to extend things beyond 31 March and they can find another house. If the house we want
decides they need more money then we're pulling out and if it means missing out on the stamp duty holiday then relisting our house to cover the
increase we'll be lumbered with.
Have bought and sold numerous houses why would I want to be dictated to? Yes it's annoying but there will always be someone who wants your place
at the price you want, as long as you are reasonable.
quote:
Originally posted by pigeondave
Best one is when they ask for a structural engineers report. What's are they going to do? Unless the owner is willing to allow for a intrusive survey the engineer dons the x-ray specs and writes an equally arse covering report.
Our last house was an old place in a conservation area
When we sold it the buyers paid for a full electrical inspection and full structural survey, Damp check etc
I said to the agents "the agreed price is what it is, If they come back wanting a reduction tell them its going straight back on the
market"
They bought it and we moved into the new place
There will always be another buyer...
It’s not a new house if that is what they want away they go! I would just ignore it clearly house is safe and habitable with no damp. Every thing else
is what you’d except in an 80 year old house. A straight conversation with buyers about how serious they are about buying needs to happen then you
know where you are.
As an aside our houses built just over 30 years ago and due to a change in regulations shortly after it was built the balanced gas flue was too close
to a corner by about 5” so for 20 years we had a service report signing off the boiler but noting a non compliant flue!! It worried me for a bit but
it was 20 years before the boiler was changed and the flue was changed. So your house may not be perfect but can be improved over time if the owner
cares too.
Good luck
There's nothing in those reports that specify any work needs to be done, the most direct comment is a few wonky door handles
This is all standard text - arse covering , so the buyer has no recourse on the surveyor
We've had it twice that the surveyor has found specific problems that either required fixing or the Building Society specified a retention - ie
they wouldn't lend the whole amount
eg, Chimney Stack Required Pointing - Estimated work £300
No sign of damp proof course - Estimated Work £2000
The first time this happened, the seller (bank repossession) knocked off the value of the work from the sale price and we had the work done ourselves
for far less cost
The second time, our surveyor hated the property we were buying and found loads wrong with it, the seller had most of it fixed, we had to go halves on
a structural engineer to certify that the roof structure was adequate
The point is, in all cases, any work that "needed" doing was very specific, with an estimated value AND the resolution required was clearly
detailed too
[Edited on 15/1/21 by Toys2]
[Edited on 15/1/21 by Toys2]
When my parents bought their house in 1963, the building society withheld part of the funds until certain works were completed. You know how awful the previous owners taste was, when part of the funds were withheld until certain rooms were redecorated!
How old are tthe buyers? I'm guessing either sounds like a first time young buyer panicing at the report or someone trying it on.
I'd suggest getting them round to the house and talking to them about each bit. If they're panicking you'll see and they'll
hopefully calm down. If they're trying it on i guess its time to swallow hard or look for another buyer.
Nb if you ever watch those rubbish shows on the telly people always expect and get a deal. They may think thats going to happen here with the current
market etc. (no idea what the market is like, i'm assuming its struggling with covid)
It's clear they are trying to use the report as a negotiating tactic and that's fine - homes are generally overvalued to a degree.
Presumably, your home has been properly valued and is not significantly more expensive than equivalent properties in the area.
But because they have immediately gone to an outlandish figure like 30% it feels like they are just taking the pi$$ and personally I wouldn't
want to deal with them. I can just imagine how the negotiation would go, it would be back and forth for months. If they had gone with say 10%,
it's a different ball game.
As others have already said, it looks like a generic report to me. Having bought my first home (a mid-40's built house) circa 11 years ago, we
had a report done before purchase which went into nowhere near as much detail as this. To give an example, this type of things that it highlighted
were as follows;
- the fibre cement external garage roof may contain asbestos (mild content at best), and we should provision for replacement soon
- the first floor ceiling had minimal insulation (some styrofoam sheets and about 100mm rock wool), recommend increasing to 270mm mineral wool to
[then] current thermal insulation rating
- roof was tile over baton with no lining but showed no sign of slipped tiles or leaking, consider lining from inside or when replacing
There was nothing structurally wrong with the house at all, and was perfectly lovable (even if the wife struggled with the 70's decor). All of
the above were carried out over the years. But having completed an new extension on the side, I can understand the comments on your report - seems
they're comparing existing against new build style. New flooring was 21mm T&G green board (moisture resistant chipboard) rather than the old
narrow floorboards, insulation in between every joist on first floor and ceiling (could've used mineral wool, but opted for celotex - better
thermal efficiency for thickness, but less noise resistance), old doors were solid wood with Bakelite knobs, now replaced with something more modern
(fire door required for internal garage entry point), new UPVC windows with better thermal capacity (including egress aspect) etc. etc. ......
As MikeR said, sound like either a young couple who have been "spooked" by a potential horrible (and unnecessary) list, or someone is trying
it on. Either way, at a reduction of 30%, I'd be telling them to go forth and multiply....
I am still in my second house, and been here for 33 years, and have no plans to move, however when we sold my previous house, sold for £76k, we had
numerous equivalent of tyre kickers, and one potentional buyer offer 10k short, as they didnt like our decour !
cheaky feckers, and they were told to go and do one
Also, in the house we live in, a large 4 bedroom semi, two different surveyors, would not agree the mortgage as they both said it was a three bedroom
house !! one even said that the sixth door upstairs was a cupboard,
Ive never known a house that has a cupboard, that you could have a double bed, wardrobes etc, and a nice big window!!! and all the four bedrooms you
can do so, in the end we had to get one of the guys to come back, and i went upstairs with him, and sarcastically counted all the six doors to him,
and opended them all up, four bedrooms, one bathroom, and one airing cupboard
To the OP, i would just ignore the reduced offer, and possibly hire your own surveyor, to do an appraisal, it will cost a few hundred quid, but if you
were to remortgage it would have to be done anyway, also that way you would get a realistic valuation of your property, not one from an estate agent,
who all they are thinking about is there commission
steve
Agree, I'd just say the report is compatible with a house of the age and the price is what the house is worth (presumably).
Most people see a kitchen diner as a thing that adds value to a property. If they want to see it from a fire hazard point of view that's up to
them!
If I were you I wouldn't waste my time responding to the report in any detail.
This is standard fair for a survey, the surveyor has to flag points of potential cost/concern to their client.
If the buyer can't comprehend the survey they need to pick up the phone to the surveyor who is likely to give them plenty of comfort that the
house is fine.
What's more useful is seeing the surveyors valuation comments and their mortgage valuation. Unless both suggest that the price is overvaluing the
property I wouldn't consider a reduction but I bet they haven't sent you those bits!
Your agent should be giving the buyer a kicking and telling them to get a grip or get lost.
Your solicitor may do likewise with their opposite number.
Home buyers reports are invariably a nightmare on anything older than 30 years or so - they always talk about "not up to current building
regs" etc, but then it wouldn't be would it, if it's 70 years old!
They normally start the report with a section basically stating whether the property needs major repairs & whether the price reflects it's
condition, we had one report that read dreadfully, similar to the garbage in your report (64 year old house with extension done 60 years ago!),
however, he started the report stating it was worth the price agreed with the purchaser & we've simply done some roofing repairs which did
need doing - we've held off on some minor stuff, which quite frankly is irrelevant, & have agreed it will be done between exchange &
completion, at least that way we know we're getting a sale out of it.
One essential thing mentioned in the first part of the report you listed is his statement "No significant related works required" - I would
bounce it back to the purchaser (if necessary via the agent) with the comment that it is an older property & the price you are selling at reflects
that, if they want all the guarantees & a property built to current building regs they'd need to pay the premium a new property requires, it
may be worth agreeing a small discount or agree to have works done if you're likely to have the same problem again with a fresh buyer, but 30%
off agreed price is ridiculous unless the place is way over priced for the condition it's in
30% reduction lol I wouldn't even respond back to them
IMHO there is nothing there worth reducing the price for. I think they are trying in on.
For example in our case we reduced our offer on a property after the survey showed drains needed replacing, we got a quote for the drains (expensive
as drive needed dug up and redone as concreate drive) and knocked that of our offer price...
It's like someone going to an auction to buy a 1962 Ferrari 250GTO ($48 million approx) then saying they want a discount because
1) it doesn't have airbags (not sure they even have seatbelts!)
2) it might have leaded bodywork
3) petrol might stop being readily available at some point
4) it's not got the MPG of a modern car
5) it's not got HID headlights
6) the brakes might contain asbestos
7) it's had a few owners
8) might be on crossply tyres instead of radials
surely they're kind of missing the point. Still worth $48 million!!
I'd agree though if they're suggesting a 30% drop they're either stupid or just plain trying it on.
"No major work required". End of.
Worth also considering how much hassle this buyer may be later on in the process....
Why are you selling anyway? Can you wait till summer as I have never sold houses in winter as like everything it all looks much better in summer.
Had similar with selling my daughters flat. In a block of 20 and her solicitor suggested she should have a structural survey done as the home buyers
survey had mention a plaster crack around a window.
When she was told the price to do a structural survey on a block of flats she freaked out. It took a more senior partner to explain to her solicitor
they were idiots
I would take the advice of others and say that is the price, the conditions are consummate for a house of that age.
Remember many of these home buyers surveys are carried out by people with little qualifications
I agree with Spaximus the price is commensurate with the age and condition as listed.
Seems to me like they're trying it on.
I would politely respond saying your sorry they won't be progressing with the purchase, then ask your agent to relist the property.
[Edited on 17/1/21 by chillis]
Buyers try this all the time.
My opinion - say the price is non-negotiable and either accept or put the house on the market. If you #really want to, accept a small reduction to
make them feel better.
When I moved last, my buyer tried similar (not 30% but enough to wee me off). I told the estate agent that, if they were going to mess me around, I
was simply going to put the house back on the market.
IMO, 30% sounds like they never wanted to pay full price from the get-go....
[Edited on 8/2/21 by stevebubs]
quote:
Originally posted by Bluemoon
Worth also considering how much hassle this buyer may be later on in the process....