After years of verbal abuse about my speeding fines and points(i've had quite a few) and her indoors
harping on about your not a good driver if you've got points,she has just been issued with her first fixed penalty for speeding past a gatso (as if
they are not bright enough now) any way thank you god this makes my life so much easier.
anyone else get grief like this?
I have been caught speeding about 5 - 6 times in 25 years.
I didnt get too much flack. 2 of those were in last 3 years. Northants police are manaic about speed cams and have roving vans and between points
speed measurement with cctv cams. Dont ever speed in northants! When I refused to admit liability 2 years ago, they sent 2 cops 30 miles to interview
me at my place of work for 75 minutes.
total utter bastards. I was doing 71 on a 60 road that, on either side of where i was caught was 70 anyway.
My wife was caught going out of town on a 30 road doing 36. She got a letter offering a course on how to be a nicer person behind the wheel. This
costs 60 quid (same as the fine) and if you complete the 3 hr morning they let you off the points. She wanted to just take the points and avoid the
patronising crap. But hey, its a get out of jail card if you can avoid heckling them. (they chuck you out and fine you anyway if you do that.) Its
this wednesday, so, if its interesting i will let you know............
btw
Northants, the 2nd most nicking police force in the country for speeding, just published death figures for last year. 28 percent friggin up. More
speed cams, or give up.......bet I know what.
atb
steve
Hmmmm, curious, I believe that the SVA requires your speedo to be accurate between 25-70Mph to 6 1/4 + 10% of speed. Is this true? If it is then
surely 30Mph + 6.25 + 30/10 = 39.25 . I don't see that it's reasonable to expect people to drive within greater tolerances than their speedo's are
legally required to display.
Does anybody know what the legal requirements for type approval are? I'm guessing that MOT doesn't test speedo accuracy.
The speeding situation in this country really is becoming ridiculous. It's nigh on impossible to drive any reasonable distance without passing some
sort of speed enforcement device. Drive for a long enough distance, and you're almost certain to let you guard down long enough to get snapped
speeding.
Kingr
speedos, by law, and according to the sva manual can read higher by (10%??) but can NEVER read lower. So, if your car says you are doing 31mph, you
have to be doing no more than that. You could, however, be only doing 27 mph.
The rules used to be 10% plus 2 mph. Thats 35 mph at 30. Hence 36 ought to have been a minimal nickable speed.
However, zero tolerance is the message.
I actually have a letter from my local MP (makes me sound like victor meldrew - and hippy already knows im really tery wogan) when I wrote and
complained about speed cameras. It was a really nice letter, very sympathetic.
Here is an extract. Try and spot the bit that totally blows the argument to that we all expected was the case....
Rescued attachment speed.jpg
Has it HELL in this county. All that the speed camera's have done is to slow people down past the camera's, then they speed up even faster in more
dangerous places to make up for the time that they have lost past the speed camera's. It has'nt made the roads safer it's just moved the Accidents &
made them more dangerous.
I live ON the one way system in Rushden, Hey thats a great laugh after 8/9 oclock at night. "We the police can't do speed camera's at night because of
the available light." THATS A good one, Lads come from far a field to RACE round the oneway circuit at night here and the racing goes on usually until
1/2 in the morning. As soon as a poodlice car appears appears they park up. Until-----. personally I like the sound of a engine doing what its
designed to do, But at the right time & place, Not to the constant accompanyment of BOOM BOOOM BOOOOM from the last offering of FRED FART & His Boy
bands latest CR*P at 500Watts per channel. I BET the chief constable would not put up with that kind of driving outside his house EVERY NIGHT of THE
WEEK. OH and I have witnesed them trying to go three abreast down the road, one each side & one trying to get down the middle. So far there has been
in the last 10 years at least one fatality (young boy, his father was on the Fire engine that attended!), 5 Cases of SERIOUS property damage, 5 cases
of minor damage (front walls), numerous cases of VERY NEAR misses. Last time a Beemer buried its-self through a brick wall + 4ft and then in through a
bay window at about 10:30 at night, (girlfriend driving, for 1st time, Boyfriends, Daddys pride & joy.) I got cautioned by female copper for swearing
under my breath while the friends of the beemer occupants stood jeering & cheering over the road, one of them even took a swing at a neighbour. Its OK
for them they are only passing, it is us residents that are left to pick up the pieces afterwards. Speed limits are NOT the answer. Driver education &
Driver skills/abilities are. A skilled driver CAN drive a car safetly with bad steering/suspension/brakes provinding he recognises that he must drive
within the lower limits of abilitiy be it his or the cars. An unskilled driver is deadly if he has no respect for the car/his skills/the conditions.
Better to make the driving licence a deserved privillege than right for life once A test has been passed.
Cars are to readily available to those who have no respect for a licence/insurance/property/other people.
The above is my opinion.
Make of it what you will.
Enjoy.
[Edited on 21/1/03 by jollygreengiant]
I live on a give way junction at the top of a one way street which has recently been made a 20 limit. There are bumps all over the road to slow
traffic and chicanes and mini roundabouts are installed or planned for the area. The only road not affected is to the police station down the road so
they can come up at 70+ when it gets near knock off. One new trick round here is buying an old Fiesta or similar from the scrappie and driving round
till it claps out, then abandon it or burn it out. I walked round the estate a few weeks ago and within two streets of the police station I saw 2 cars
parked with out of date tax disks both looking like they had been in a grasstrack race. They both drove past my house within an hour, full of local
burglars. If the police pulled up any car round here with 2 baseball caps or hooded tops or more they could clear their books of unsolved burglaries
in a week. If they are caught in the cars they are not punished and should be made to pay for the police time, fuel, helicopter hours etc. that it
takes to catch them. I also think the kerb height should be raised to 2 feet and have 6 inch nails in it to stop kerb parking
yours, Pete
A good point Jolly GG!
I have always been of the opinion that bad driving is the cause of most accidents - not speed.
Speed will certainly exacerbate the consequences of bad driving when it all goes wrong but it annoys me that it seems to be the sole target of road
safety campaigners.
You only have to drive down the M1 on a monday morning to see more bad driving than it is possible to count taking place at well below the allowable
speed limit - do any of those culprits get fined/prosecuted - No! I think is the answer.
I am totally in favour of rigerously enforced urban speed limits but sticking cameras on open 'A' roads is more often than not to do with revenue
raising.
2 years ago I was caught doing 101.5 on the M1 at 3am on a dry street lit and totally empty motorway (Cop car on overbridge) for which I was fined and
got six points - Phew lucky!
I'm not saying that this is big or clever but I was considerably safer in that activity than many thousands of people on the M1 on monday morning
tailgating at 50mph. Infact I was considerably safer in a modern car than I would have been 20 years ago in my mini van doing 70 - for which I would
not have been fined.
Also the concentration on speed alone sends out the wrong message about driving. We have all followed the person driving along a derestricted 'A'
road at 35 mph and overtaking a lorry by spending 1/2 a mile in the opposite gutter - I have had an exchange with on of these people and he scincerely
bekieved that he was perfectly safe beacuse he was going slowly.
We need to concentrate on driver standards - The days are long gone when someone can be given a licence and then forgotten about - the roads are just
too dangerous and busy for driving to be a right any more - If you can't cope with progression along a major dual carriageway at more than 40mph you
can't cope with those doing faster speeds around you either and should get a taxi or the train - sorry but that is just realistic.
Finnaly one last point on speed cameras.
Those of you in Derbyshire may have noticed the large number of mobile speed traps around at the moment.
There is one regularly at the top of Taddington bypass on the A6 south of Buxton. This site is just past the end of a de-restricted dual carriage way
where the rest of the A6 has been reduced to 50.
They get ever so many people there (believe it or not) - the police say it is beacuse this is an accident black spot - This is complete bollocks! I
have driven that road daily for years and there are many places on the A6 that suffer from accidents and deaths - that is not one of them. That is a
revenue raising site and it is immoral - If it really was that dangerous then why are they not slowing people down instead of allowing them to
conmtinue at the 'dangerous speed' and charging them for the privilage.
Disclaimer
I am not comming from the position of someone who thinks that he is gods gift to driving - I have my moments of extremely crap driving too. I just
think that people are rallying behind the wrong cause. There are much better ways of improving road safety they just don't raise cash.
Rant over.
Phil.
I don't think I'm opposed to speed cameras as such, more police abuse of power. I think there should be more police accountablility, and perhaps a
speed camera regulatory body (offcam or something), so that when they put a speed camera in or do a speed trap there is good reason for it, not just
police revenue production.
Before police got a cut of profits from speed cameras there was the ridiculous situation of there being hundred upon hundreds of speed cameras all
over britain with no film in, because the councils would decide to put them in, and then the cost of maintainance would fall to the police, but they
wouldn't see any return. So, being more interested in bank rolling themselves effectively than actually improving things for pedestrians and
motorists, the cameras were almost never armed, certainly where I live, and probably elsewhere too.
The other problem is, that it's cheaper to put a speed camera and stricter speed limits than it is to actually improve the safety of the road. So
we're left with off camber narrow blind bends with a speed camera either side and restricted to 30 mph.
The problem with punishing bad driving is that it's so debateable that it would be almost entirely unenforceable : If I go screaming round a corner in
a McLaren F1 is it less dangerous than screaming round that corner in a Fiesta, most would say yes, but how much less? Speed limits are the same for
any car, anywhere, and they're not disputeable (well, not often).
I don't know if it's just me, but there seems to be an increased feeling of dissatisfaction from the general public with regards to road safety
measures, so perhaps something will be done, but I don't know what.
Finally, I've heard it said that the 70Mph limit for motorways was decided at a time when very few cars could aspire to these heady speed, and the
limit was mostly to prevent high speed testing of extremely expensive sports cars on the motorway (I've heard the AC Cobra's name mentioned). While
this may well be true, a car of a given weight going at a certain speed still produces the same ammount of energy, peoples reaction are still the
same, and traffic has increase. Is improved brakes, compulsory seat belts (rated to, I believe, under 30 Mph), crumple zones and airbags enough to
justify higher limits.
Kingr
quote:
is buying an old Fiesta or similar from the scrappie and driving round till it claps out
quote:
there has been in the last 10 years at least one fatality (young boy, his father was on the Fire engine that attended!),
Believe it or not that is not possible here at this point in time. WHY because it is a designated main trunk route, the A6 for wide and special loads,
so no restrictions are allowed, not even safety railings. Or so I was informed by plod & council.
Approximately once a week somebody collects a piece of property in the near vacinity to where the lad died.
How about
Take your test a maximum of 3 times. No relicence for 5 years.
Loose your licence and you have to start again, including loss by points.
More than 3 accidents in 5 years & retrain
Retest all after 5 or 10 years.
All drivers to keep a log book & minimum miles/hours driving to keep licence.
Proper penalties for so called joy riders.
It works for pilots. And it would make everone with a licence think about its value, and the value of the vehicle they drive.
my brother got a van and car written off in one accident
civic crx racin through estate bounced off his parked van back axle ended up behind drivers seat hit a scenic 50yrds up the road pushed it into his
capri which was parked in a layby on the inside and back into a 106 whole lot was moved at least 4ft backwards capri mounted footpath crx ended up
another 50yrd up the road
when questioned the driver said-- i wasnt speeding look no skid marks
police officer-- according to witnesses thats cos u went airbourne after first collision
conclusion nothing done
no tax
no licence cant get points
no insurance so cant claim of them
he owned car so cant be done for joyriding
front seat passenger was his 8 yo bbrother apparently anyone bigger would be dead
back seat passenger got shot in legs twice (first time wasnt sore apparently)
driver went to spain
How about
Take your test a maximum of 3 times. No relicence for 5 years.
Something is like that for a bike test - you have to pass in 2 years or you lose licence - so im told. On the other hand, a little tosser could pass
1st or 2nd time, so that wouldnt do too much.
Lose your licence and you have to start again, including loss by points.
If you get 6 points within 2 years of passing your test, this is what happens!
More than 3 accidents in 5 years & retrain
But how would this get logged - would insurance co tell police? - that would increase hit and runs no end.
Retest all after 5 or 10 years.
Just imagine all the people that would lose thgeir job cos of the commuting aspect, or the driving aspect, as part of their job if they didnt pass
this life changing test if they lost their license.
The thing that puts me most against speed cams is the points. If you get caught 4 times in 3 years, you lose license - thats not hard around here. Is
the loss of your job really a suitable penalty for getting caught for doing 36 mph every 9 months or so......its too extreme. The stupidity is its 3
points and 60 quid if you are doing 36 or 49 mph. So, if you drift a couple mph over 30 for some reason, or are going full tilt in a 30 zone, its the
same penalty! you may as well do 49 mph everywhere.
Just up the road from me is a retail park with a speed limit of 5mph. How the frig do you do 5mph when car speedos start at 10mph? cretins.
All drivers to keep a log book & minimum miles/hours driving to keep licence.
far too big brother. However, if you ever have a car driven by others, then you would have to do this, cos you have to prove to police who was driving
the car if its speed cam'ed.
Proper penalties for so called joy riders.
They exist. Its just the wooly jumpers that are on the bench dont apply them.
It works for pilots. And it would make everone with a licence think about its value, and the value of the vehicle they drive.
I've always thought it odd that you can pass your test in a 1ltr fiesta and then walk out and buy a souped up RWD 600bhp supra. I don't suppose you'd
have the foggiest what to do if went all sideways on you.
Now, I'm only 21 and the fastest thing I've driven is my parents 52bhp escort. I've never had skid pan training, never been taught how to handle
power oversteer, and never been taught how a 4wd scooby would handle differently to my lardy family car. Yet I am fully qualified to drive anything I
like.
I am also expected to drive on crappy roads surrounded by folk who sometimes have eyesight they wouldn't be able to pass a test with, but can keep
their license. Also, I have folk around me who may or may not be medically fit to drive - either through reactions which have faded, or perhaps with
legs incapable of exerting enough force to perform an emergency stop!
I also have middle aged guys who've been driving long enough to be able to tailgate in complete safety as they have mastered the art of driving by
now!
Then there are the 'classic' (read old and knackered) cars which just cannot stop inside the distance a modern car could, and as such account for a
lot or rear end incidents. No problem with genuine classics - they tend to be driven by people who appreciate their car and right to drive it.
Is there a minimum stopping distance to pass an MOT? why not?
I'd like to see regular re-testing and regular skid pan training as part of the re-testing/teaching program. Possible re-training if you want to
drive a car over a certain performance level?
Agree with all points about cameras!! No problem if they save lives, but for god's sake signpost them so people slow down! If people are still
getting caught by a speedo, then it hasn't done it's job!
An idle speedo is a successful one.
Sorry for the length of the post - rant over.
Happy driving everyone
quote:
Originally posted by mark_rayfield
Is there a minimum stopping distance to pass an MOT? why not?
A couple of years ago I was driving a mini and was nearly wiped out by a Discovery driven by a woman (in a tweed hat) driving round a puddle on a bend
onto my side of the road. I swerved onto the side where the puddle was and stopped after the bend, she carried on regardless. If we had collided what
would have happened is anybodies guess, odds on she would have been the presiding magistrate
. and I would have been going too fast. There is no
limit on the lanes round here but a lot of them are only wide enough for one vehicle. If common sense is not applied, accidents are a foregone
conclusion, but you cannot put anything where god failed.
yours, Pete.
JollyGG,
I'm going to have to disagree with your example, just because someone doesn't drive in a big city doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't. What are they
supposed to do, drive into a big city every month for no reason other than remind themselves how to drive there? And on the occasion that they do
require to drive in the city, they're unlikely to cause any accidents, more likely just wee a few people off. Drink driving on the other hand is
absolutely inexcuseable, there is absolutely no justification for it. It's simple, if you think you may need to drive, don't drink, or get a taxi.
I know of one person who was convinced that they could drive OK after drinking, one day when driving home in their huge 4x4 they ran over a post box
in their village that had been there for over 10 years. If you can't miss land marks that have been around that long, what chance have you of missing
the child that is crossing the road, or even standing on the pavement (hell, that's where the post box was).
My other point is that just because someone takes a few goes to pass their test, doesn't mean that they're bad drivers, or in fact, any worse than
someone who passes first time. Obviously I'm slightly biased in this opinion because I took more than three goes to pass. I had two completely
seperate driving instructors telling me before and after each one that they thought I was more than good enough to pass. The most probably reason for
this was due to nerves, does being nervous mean that I shouldn't be allowed to drive for 5 years? I don't think so. I need my car to get to work, no
matter what job I have in my chosen industry because I live in a small town with very bad public transport. Without a car, I'd be stuck only able to
get job within walking/cycling distance, which would have been soul destroying.
If anything the amount of time and money it cost me has made me value my liscence all the more (verging on £1000 and around 10 months).
With regard to being able to walk out of a test and drive whatever car you like, it's true to a certain extent, but you're unlikely to be able to get
insurance. Also, it begs the question, do more powerful cars make people drive faster? The motorbike test does seem quite sensible in allowing a
limited power until you pass another test.
Kingr
[Edited on 22/1/03 by kingr]
Vandalised Gatsos
Enjoy
Cheers
Chris
i took 2 times to pass. I was taught by my mum who took 4 times to pass and have never actually had any paid for training. Watch out when im around
when my wife got caught doing 42 in an out of town 30 section in my silver 318i BMW she was told by the copper 'you are gonna get stopped in a car
like that'. Nice to know its all fair in the system.
She came back from her 'do the 3 hr course and get off the points' session run by northants police today.
Class of 16 were all caught doing 36 in a 30 zone. total criminal types - mostly over 40 and not at all boy racers - lock em all up I say
They were boasting about the speed cam capabilities and how they police primary accident routes.
go to
http://www.reducingroadcasualties.com
for the crap on how northants police deals with its road user and the equipment they use.
Jolly, against your earlier post, she was told the speed kit does work at night.
interesting to see the laser vans use the number plate as a reflector - wonder if an alfa 156 is a harder target?
anyone driving in northants - look at the red and amber routes in the site - tells you where they are 75% of the time.
Jolly - make sure you get 2 serious injuries or deaths 3 years in a row each year on your speedway - they might add you to the list then.
atb
steve
ps
the vandalised gatsos were good. however, i can see why some are there. I cant see the logic of 'if you are speeding and someone pulls out and you hit
em its their fault' - thats nutsack - its inappropriate speeding in a dangerous place.
If I were on my last points and my job hung on losing my license, hacksawing a gatso at 3.30am in the morning is probably a risk worth taking......
The Stealt Tax stickers mentioned in the site chris linked, are mentioned in my MPs letter to me. The chief police git says he likes em cos it shows
that people are taking notice.
perhaps they will take notice if people vote the friggin councillors out that put the cams in.
[Edited on 22/1/03 by stephen_gusterson]
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Don't get me wrong I do not in anyway condone Drink driving.
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
'you are gonna get stopped in a car like that'. Nice to know its all fair in the system.
[Edited on 22/1/03 by stephen_gusterson]
I once had a MK1 Capri that attracted the police wherever I went.
Car was bog standard and black and I too would be stopped almost daily for spot checks.
One occasion I was asked what speed limit was on a section of road I had not reached and was at least half a mile away.
On many an occasion I would pass a police car going in other direction and would watch them through rear view mirror spin round behind me and pull me
up. Reached the point that on seeing a police car I would pull over and wait for them.
It was a great car, but boy was I glad to be rid of it.
Terry
ps. I went back to bikes after that, cuz at least I could outrun them!
Oooops! did I say that?
Wasn't me officer!
[Edited on 23/1/03 by Bull]
when I got my first car my parents made me do driver training/skid pan work.
I find that very usefull and it has gotten me out of a few situations.
I know I live on the other side of the world but u guys suffer the same problems as us.
Speed cameras, here in melbourne we have this half arsed tunnel that leaks water we call it City link. the great thing about these camerad is they
only take a photo of ur front number plate, simple take it off.lol
one of the most dangerous things I find on our road is old people. no I don mean people in there 50's and 60's i mean old
old. here are some classics.
Stopping in the middle of a round about to let people in....fuk that was funny
One old lady who come to the same petrol station is SO weak she can't operate the petrol bowser, she has to get someone to fill her car up.
(if she is that weak what is she doing driving a car? grrrrr, how the hell would she do anything in an emergency.
This has got to be my pet hate.
enterng the freeway at 60 km an hour when all the cars on the freeway are going at 100km an hour. this one is done by lots of retarded people in
australia....not just old people, Toyota camry drivers are the worst. (it seem the police enforce going to fast. how about going too slow, this can be
just as dangerous.
most of my friends are boy racers and get done by the cops some have lost there licence, I dont think some will be of the probationry licence till
there 36. lifes just a constant street race for them many of my mates have had close calls. some too close
i once got knicked on xmas eve at 18 years old for riding a motorbike without a helmet. it was from one side of the road to the other side. was
pushing the bike anlong under its oen poer, talking to a pedestrian mate. jumped on it to cross road cos a car was coming and it was plod!
ATB
Steve
I used to have a mk1 cortina 25 years ago. it was a 1200 2 door and was well crap cos the previous owner had tried to soup it up and put 1500cc bits
on it inc the carb. did about 20mpg i recall.
atb
steve
guy i went to tech with got pulled for no reason cop eventually decided his tyres were just about illegal told him to get a new set and if he caught
him again with same tyres he'd book him
next night same place same guy same cop same tyres this time my mate argued that tyres were legal and pulled out a tyre tread depth guage and guess
wat perfect tyres in all four corners
and people wonder why no one likes traffic branch
People who expect everybody on the motorway to move over cos they want to come on. You are supposed to filter in not come straight in and shove slow
moving lorries into the middle lane. There is also an increasing tendency not to use indicators on roundabouts so it's like russian roulette trying to
get on if you haven't got something that accelerates to 30 in 2 seconds.
yours, Pete.
quote:
Originally posted by johnston
guy i went to tech with got pulled for no reason cop eventually decided his tyres were just about illegal told him to get a new set and if he caught him again with same tyres he'd book him
next night same place same guy same cop same tyres this time my mate argued that tyres were legal and pulled out a tyre tread depth guage and guess wat perfect tyres in all four corners
and people wonder why no one likes traffic branch