I was on leave from work last week but got a jolly message on my moby from the manager. I 'phoned him back and he had good news and bad news.
Good news was that I didn't have to rush back for my nightshifts......
Bad news was that I was suspended from work pending an investigation into improper use of company computers.
Bugger.
The main allegation surrounds four website that I have frequented.
The first one is Locostbuilders.
The second is PPC mag.
The third is Bongofury.
And the fourth is photobucket.
I've been with the company for 17years starting as an apprentice in '89 and worked my way up to charge engineer. It's as high up the ladder I can get without been the Powerstation Manager.
I'm piffed off because everyone uses it for home stuff but mine were 'flagged up' because they were in the early hours during nightshifts.
Anyone know of any jobs going (apart from mine)?

Have you been told you must not use the ccomputers for "other stuff"?

Yes we have. We even signed a bit of paper to say we wouldn't but as often happens, everyone does it and nothing's ever been said before. Even the manager has been spotted with a Saab owners club site on his 'puter. He claims the suspention has come from head office following a 'use report'.
I have a preliminary meeting at work tomorrow and I have been advised to take a few cardboard boxes along.....

Our company's policy and procedure state that we can use the internet for personal use outside working hours. If yours is similar, could you not claim that you only used it for personal use during breaks?

The 'report' shows all the times and dates and we don't get breaks! The shift starts at 8 til 8. We don't leave until the next shift takes over. The job primarily entails sitting at a control room overseeing the power generation. The PC monitor happens to be next to the Powerstation Overview monitors so I was, technically, still at my workplace doing my job!

I'd have a quick word with a solicitor. 8 'til 8 without a break sounds a tad Dickensian to me. It's a power station, not the bloody workhouse! a brief may have some ideas that will give you some leverage. good luck anyway.
PS If they have only targeted you, you can claim victimisation.

[Edited on 30/7/06 by Confused but excited.]

Can they fire you without written warnings first?

At both my current job and my previous company they had to give 2 written warnings before they could actually fire you.

I don't believe that web browsing could be constituted as gross misconduct so I can't see how they can fire you over it.

It's a pity you didn't post this before.... check your terms and conditions and get down to the Citizens Advice Bureau. They were great and really helpful when I was made redundant.

I strongly suspect your company can do nothing more than give you a written warning.

If they fire you then you can take them to an Employment Tribunal which being notoriously pro the employee chances are you'd win.

Best of luck, remember, there's no reason to fire you, if it's that they need to make staff cuts and they're using this as an excuse then once again it's contructive dismissal and you've got them over a barrel.

If they really get tough then ask them to prove the cost to the company and offer to re-pay it.

ALSO,
(just thought) how can they prove that is was actually you using the computer? Do only you know your password? Is the computer always locked when you're not at it? Could someone else be doing it whilst you are not there?
Can they prove it's actually you doing it? They must be able to prove it's you. Could it be a trojan/virus on the machine that's accessing the sites.

It's not porn, you haven't done anything illegal. If they don't block sites from access then why not browse them if they provide 'net access. They shouldn't provide net access if they don't want people using it.

Hope that helps, good luck, remember forewarned is forearmed. As the meeting is tomorrow get on the web tonight and look up your employee rights. It'll be on there somewhere!

Cheers,
James

[Edited on 30/7/06 by James]

[Edited on 30/7/06 by James]

to me it sounds more like a written warning and a telling off, unless you've been told before

when i worked in hemel as a sales rep i went on holiday for 2 weeks and no one noticed, i diverted the company phone to my own mobile so there wouldnt be any calls from teneriffe unfortionalty i must of got drunk one night send sent the boss a post card (:mad and i only got a written warning for it.

Your company is breaking the law for not allowing breaks and unless theft or something like gross misconduct /assault then they must give you a written warning . Check with your local C.A.B. if you have any problems . Although industrial tribunals normally find in favour of the employee my brother laid off a female employee who then took him to tribunal claiming sexual harassment/ unfair dismisal . When the evidence was seen she only got a pittance because he hadn't followed correct procedure , about Ģ250 The best bit was she was offered Ģ5,000 out of court settlement.

Worth checking up on this: I am sure that under EU human rights your entitlement is 15 mins break for every 6 hours you work.

If the company has failed to define a set time for these to be taken they have a weak case against you unless your internet log-on times far outstretch your entitlement.

Suspension sounds as if they want to investigate - at least it suggests they are unresolved.

quote:

---

Originally posted by owelly
Yes we have. We even signed a bit of paper to say we wouldn't but as often happens, everyone does it and nothing's ever been said before. Even the manager has been spotted with a Saab owners club site on his 'puter. He claims the suspention has come from head office following a 'use report'.
I have a preliminary meeting at work tomorrow and I have been advised to take a few cardboard boxes along.....

---

Owelly's boss was once my boss also. I'd probably best not comment at this point....

Good luck matey....

Seconded everything that's been said, but most of all if you're a member of a union make damn sure they know as they will insist on having a rep present. If you're not talk to the union anyway and they'll probably still help.

Cheers folks!!
It was me on the tinternet. I was logged on with my password and when the Manager first mentioned my overuse of the web, I apologised and I havn't logged on since. That was two weeks ago. I got the 'phone call on Wednesday whilst I was away and I have only just got back which is why I have not had the time to sort tings better. I will be on the blower to the Union in the morning.
I have no line manager. The only person who outranks me within the Powerstation is the Manager. The interview tomorrow is to 'investigate the allegations'. The outcome of the meeting will be reported to the directors who will decide what the next steps are.
The bit about having no breaks isn't related to this case. There was a bit of a grumble when we went to 12hr shifts but we are provided with a kettle, cooker and microwave!

Wish me more luck folks!!!

Hi,as an ex AEEU shop steward and now a Northern regional manager you could say that I know both sides of the stick.

They seem to have done the right thing by asking you to a meeting to discuss the allegations.
They must then make a decision as to whether they deem it a serious enough offence to take more action as you have said,make sure they do not make an instant decision and they must be seen to take time and decide.
If a decision is made in the same meeting you have grounds for unfair treatment as they should not have already made up their mind up already to be fair to you.
This cannot be more than a warning issue unless you have signed understanding that this is gross misconduct, and even then that would be doubtful in an appeal.
I think a rap on the knuckles is coming and I'd definately calmly stand your ground if they try getting heavy on this.

If you need any back up I can get advice daily from my company as I often deal with disciplinary issues as the senior manager,they must seem to be fair at all times.
If it gets messy get in touch with me for help and i'll do what I can to advise you.

Nowadays companies must be watertight when dismissing staff,and this is not serious enough in my opinion to do more than caution or give notice of misuse of company property.

Also it might be worth asking if other staff at ALL levels will be checked for the same pc usage,if not then you cannot have been treated FAIRLY and can claim victimisation!!!

PS:Remember-You DO NOT have to accept any warning or caution if you feel that you are being unfairly treated.!!!!

[Edited on 30/7/06 by DEAN C.]

[Edited on 30/7/06 by DEAN C.]

If you have been allowed to get away with something for so long and no one has picked up on it or it has just been overlooked then im afraid they can not all of a sudden begin to pull you up on it.

Have you had a review/appraisal in the last 12 months since you have been browsing the site and nothing has been mentioned?

I would seriously consider checking this out.

A couple of points to bear in mind, one evry thing has to be in writing, the invitation to the meeting , what you are alleged to have done. also who said bring cardboard boxes. If that was seriously said it would appear they have made a decision without a hearing, big no no. They must offer you the right to appeal, again assuming you have a diciplinary procedure to follow.

discilpinry issues fall into two sections, 1 is performance 2 is conduct.
on 1 you will get warnings usually up to three before dismissal. on 2 they can dismiss at any stage if the offence is serious enough.

Dress smart and listen and take a tape recorder and note pad and write everything down no matter how little it may seem.

It is no excuse to say everyone else is doing it however if something is common place at every level it is more unlikly they will dismiss if the likly hood is that a pandoras box would be opened.

Good luck

As an AMICUS official of 15 years please do not listen to barrack room layers.
The only advice anyone on here should be giving is: "See your union rep and make sure you have him/her with you at every neeting)

It is impossible to give advice without knowing the full facts, company policy, T&C's etc. etc.

I wish you all the best and hope you get the result you wish for.

If you need to talk to someone who has represented many people in similar circumstances. U2U me and I'll give you my number.

As far as thew 'dickensian' sounding '8 'till 8 with no breaks' shift, we're on the same (different station, different company) but are allowed to take breaks on an as-and-when basis. It's the one thing I hate as we can get interrupted at any time, even if we've just taken our first gobful of sarnie, to go out and check a plant fault. I used to work for Castle Cement at Ketton and it was exactly the same there, no set breaks. I'd imagine most 24hr processes are the same.
As far as 'net usage goes, we've been told as long as it's 'reasonable' we're OK. I had to telephone our IS helpdesk yesterday as my account got locked whilst looking at my favourite kite flying forum. The guy at IS just unticked the account locked button on his screen and said if it'd been a dodgy/inapprorpriate site I would'ntve been allowed on it by the systems own watchdog in the first place.
Having said that, I think I'd better be VERY careful where I go from now on.
Owelly, as has been said by others, they are jumping the gun a bit, hoping you'll fall on your sword. Use the union bods, that's what you pay your dues for! Lerrus know how you get on please as it might be useful to circulate round our lads as a 'just be careful'.
You don't fancy coming down here to be our station manager do you? Ours is crap!

The meeting lasted about ten minutes and consisted of two questions. The manager explained that he was asked to conduct an 'informal interview to put forward the allegations'. As he had never had to deal with such things before, he read through the bumf the HR woman had sent him and devised the two questions which he forwarded to the directors and they agreed they were sufficient.
First question was did I remember signing the 'Missuse declaration'? He had a copy of my signed document in his hand so that was an easy one to answer!
The second was why I had spent so much company time on non-company websites.
I explained that I was still at my workstation monitoring the powerstation as that is what I am paid to do. I added that some folks read books or mags to keep alert, I knew that the web use was monitered but thought it was OK as everyone used the 'puter for non-work stuff.

The responces to my questions will be passed on to the directors so I just have to it and wait..........

Many thanks for all the help and advise on here and via U2U.

from what you have just said with the interview being informal i'd say it'll be a slap on the wrists and get back to work but i wouldn't really know as i have always worked for local companies who rarely discipline for misuse of time or laziness etc,etc. Forgot i have worked in a call centre before when i was a student and we were allowed to use any internet sites which the firewalls etc would let us into but only when work was light and there were no calls for us to take.

Fingers crossed then

When I used to work in the C o L, misuse was generally understood to be porn etc. They didn't seem to mind anything else, and it wasn't like we had much else to do anyway!

ATB

Simon

Quote from BKLOCO.As an AMICUS official of 15 years please do not listen to barrack room layers.
The only advice anyone on here should be giving is: "See your union rep and make sure you have him/her with you at every neeting)

Hmm! well I agree to an extent about using the union reps,not all reps are as good as others though, and you should always be aware of your rights and basically what is allowed and not.
I was union trained and the courses that I did at the time were excellent,these have stood me in good stead through self employment and now in a senior management position with a international company.
I would also now like to think that I had some respect from the people that work for me and I would like to think that I care as well,all through my union training.
People should be treated fairly and should have every right given to them possible ,the only thing that really pees me off now is people who expect free rides with profit margins so low.
Owelly from his side of things should recieve no more than a verbal. If the company management take things further I would take them to task over it!
Fair is fair!
Dont forget you can take anyone that you would like to represent you!Not just barrack room lawers!!!!!!
BKLOCO is quite right though,take some one that knows or is trained to argue(I mean put your case )for you.
One of my courses for the union was about union law,which should have been translated to "how to win arguements"

Just as a point of interest I once lost a case of dismissal for gross misconduct where someone had told a team leader to "f*** off back to his office".
Managements arguement was that it was gross missconduct because it was said in fornt of others and therefore undermined the team leaders authority.
Fortunately management took into account the individuals previously unblemished record and demoted him in liew of dismissal.
Our union lawyer advised not to fight it on appeal as they could increase the sanction to dismissal.
Although we could then have possibly succesfully claimed for unfair dismissal, at the end of it the guy would still not have a job!!!!

All I am saying is that these things are rarely as straightforward as they may at first seem.

My offer still stands to owelly that if he wants to ring me I'll U2U him my number but he would be best with his own union rep.

I have a disciplinary hearing at 11:30 on Friday. They are sending a team down from head office in Glasgow to carry out the hearing.
I've contacted the Union again and I'm waiting for them to 'phone me back to advise!!

It's scary reading this thread. I've had a document prepared and sitting on my work computer desktop for months now asking to have internet access removed. I'm seriously considering carrying it through now.

The Union cannot get a rep to me for Friday so I've had to tell the suits that they will have to wait until next week. They are not too happy but they have to give me at least three days notice, in writing, of any meetings so trousers to them!!!

It seems to have opened a can of worms at work because there never really was any need for the internet at work for work related stuff. You don't need to look at the web to monitor a powerstation! All the other chaps are worried in case it's them next especially if it turns into a victimisation case and everyone has their internet history checked! Most of the blokes have not logged on since they heard the news.

So, rescheduled meeting for 11:30 on Tuesday.......

[Edited on 1/8/06 by owelly]

So what was the outcome?

Not too bad, one hopes!

ATB

Simon

Outcome of what? Tuesday's meeting? You are twelve hours previous I think. Have patience.

Just wondering how you got on Owelly?

quote:

---

rescheduled meeting for 11:30 on Tuesday......

---

I think he's been barred from the internet.

The union guy seemed a bit vague at first and had a read through all the paperwork I had taken with me. We met the directors who were to carry out the hearing and the Union guys opening volley was something to behold!!
He started by asking for proof that I had agreed and signed to the company disciplinary procedure. Of course, the directors couldn't provide any such thing!
He then asked for 'a quick background to my performance at work'. There had been no incidents in the last 17 years that had any cause for concern. There had been no complaints from my manager, the client (MoD) or any of the chaps who work for me.
The Union guy then asked what specific part of the Internet Use Rules I was alledged to have breached.
The directors said it was 'an unacceptable amount of non-work related sites and of a potentially offensive content'.
The Union chap pointed out the definition of 'unacceptable internet use' which was 'excessive use of the internet which had impeded my work task'.
The Union dude that pointed out the earlier comments about my performance been good so that my internet use couldn't have been excessive! Round one to me and Union geezer!
The next point was for the directors to explain what was 'potentially offensive'.
They struggled to define what that was but produced a copy of an image (courtesy of Flak Monkey I believe!!) of a scantily clad woman.
The Union chap pointed out that as I hadn't distributed or shared any of the images, they couldn't be considered offensive. Round two to the good guys.

The meeting took just under two hours and the company guys were looking stupid. The Union guy just tied them in knots. I barely spoke a word.
The outcome was, that I got to keep my job, but I will be issued with a final warning and be subject to performance monitering for the next twelve months. Mr Union guy recommends that I appeal and aim for a slapped wrist and an apology for the suspention.
I'll have a think over the next few days (I'm still off on full pay!) and decide what to do.

Many thanks again folks for all the support, it has made a big difference.

[Edited on 8/8/06 by owelly]

Wow! Well done for keeping the job mate! Sounds like your union guy knows his stuff and really saved your bacon! Recon you owe him a pint!

Perhaps this will serve as a wake up call to all those members who maintain that avatars of wimmin are OK.

I log on at work, but am seriously considering cutting down in light of Owellys experiences, and coupled with the problems with logging in in the evening, may mean that I don't get on here as often as i'd like.

Time to re-run the worksfae avatar poll?

Mike

i've just read this (at work) and am now thinking of changing my underwear, stopping logging on and i second the avatar comment.

Maybe Chris could fit a 'no avatars' option into the user profile...

David

The Uniun guy did his work very well, altough i never like suchs casualities on my work because you always will look a bit strange at the guy/guys who did you the harm.

Iīm sure that they needed a black sheep and tought of you.

The uniun guy could also have a point with 2 other things...

- Are you the only one?
- And if internet acces isnīt needed wy does that pc has it?
- Wy can you logon on a place where it isnīt needed to logon (on that pc)

Anyway do what you can, and i would fight against the 12month monitoring because if they want they can make you a bad worker albeit you are doing like always...

i wouldnīt trust them also 12months is a bit a long period not??

Tks

Good point about the 12-month probation period - if they're upset enough they can wait a little while and get rid of you later on some other trivial matter.

I'd have a good chat with the union man again, and try for the "slapped wrist" reprimand.

David

not to mention that you need more time to think about that!!

and then you finish your car in that way the need to be on here is less


Tks

I think a trip to the docs is in order, with a need for something to get you out of depression.

Another 6 months off might help

Then, when you get back, you could slip on a badly disposed of banana skin, be worth another 6 months........

ATB

Simon

ATB

Simon

[Edited on 9/8/06 by Simon]