Hi all,

I am looking for an of road car, van or whatever. The engine has got to be 1l or less. Ideally it will be competent of road i.e. have good ground clearance and 4wd. So far I have been considering the following vehicles

1. Suzuki sj 410
2. Haflinger http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/Steyr/Haflinger.html
3. Bedford rascal

If you have any other subjections I would be interested in hearing them.

not sure if its any good, but i believe there is a sub 1 litre panda with 4wd.

Or a subaru justy etc? I think there is an even smaller subaru.

Thanks for the suggestions a mate had a justy at uni I don’t think they ever made a 1l version though I think his was a 1.2 or 1.3, it had a 3 cyl engine witch I swapped with him so I suppose I also have experience with them.

my main concern with pandas and justys is the ground Clearance though.

Only one choice: Lada Niva! Seriously...

I currently use one as my daily drive & off road toy. With a decent set of tyres they can equal a Landy off road - with a 2" suspension lift (very cheap) they are almost unbeatable.

What really surprised me was the on road characteristics - it handles & brakes surprisingly well (was the first unibody SUV with independent suspension). Can cruise at 95mph on the motorway and I get about 31mpg which is pretty good for a 4wd.

Mechanically it is a very simple car to work on and designed for maintenance rather than replacement. The 1.7i engines have bombproof Bosch/GM throttle body injection and electronic ignition and tend to be very reliable. Parts are cheap and easy to get hold of from eBay or Alan Bird (www.lada.co.uk).

If you get bored of the performace you can drop in a 2 litre Fiat twincam - everything fits easily, from the gearbox to the engine mounts.

Niva's go on eBay every week. Whilst many have been neglected good ones do come up.

And personally I love the retro looks!

Let me know if you need more convincing....

Oh bugger. Just saw the "1 litre or less" requirement. Niva is out then...

This is for the rally to mongolia thing? (can't remember what it's called.... just the 1 litre limit).

I second the Panda 4x4 - they are allegedly amazing off road with some chunky tyres.

[Edited on 15/9/06 by AdamR]

Hi,

The Lada Niva looks good however as far as I can see they did not make a 1L version the car must have a 1l or less engine. Or be a relatively easy swap to 1l

edeted to add

Yep its for the mongo rally
www.mongoliaarewethereyet.com


[Edited on 15/9/06 by ceebmoj]

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Originally posted by ceebmoj
The Lada Niva looks good however as far as I can see they did not make a 1L version the car must have a 1l or less engine. Or be a relatively easy swap to 1l

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quote:

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Originally posted by AdamR
I second the Panda 4x4 - they are allegedly amazing off road with some chunky tyres.

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Panda 4x4 is an excellent car with more ground clearance than you would think... can tackle a steeper incline than a landrover!!!

Hi except for the 1ltr thing the lada rocks i built one for compsafari and trialing. Enterd 4 events and 3 wins. Pics in my archive of it.

cheers matt

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLAN-CRUSADER-AND-HILLMAN-IMP-IDEAL-WINTER-PROJECT_W0QQitemZ300026974496QQihZ020QQcategoryZ100929QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi ewItem

or the panda 4x4

Better take plenty of food and water if you're considering a Haflinger... it'll be a looong journey.

They are great for their intended job - going up and down Alps. On the one road they're noisy and VERY slow!

David

I hear what you are saying about the top speed of the halflinger I have herd thay will cruse at 40 odd (witch is apparently a bit scary) witch is slow and for stage one will be giving away a lot of time.

However the problem as I see it is that my journey is essentially made up of three separate stages

1. London to Turkey predominantly roads in reasonable condition all though they detereat as you go east. Most cars are capable of this part of the trip.

2. Turkey to Kazakhstan predominantly off road driving.

3. Kazakhstan to Mongolia including the western entrance to Mongolia i.e. mountains deserts and other big obstacles.

Any car I can think of that is suits to 1 is compromised for 2,3 and vise veser.

Halflinger + bike engine ? or some form of overdrive / large road wheals to get a bit more speed?

look at it another way what is the best 1ltr engine and what car could you sensibly fit it into?!

fiat fire engine (as in uno's/panda's)
engine out of a smart car
any decent 1ltr jap (non bike!) engines

bike engine wouldn't be a good choice imho

Ned.

Best engine also means what can be repaired in the middle of nowhere by the local mechanics. So nothing hi tech.
Always seem to be plenty of Toyota's out that end of the world - not sure if many use sub 1 litre engines.

I had been assuming that a good engine would be something simple as in no ECU possibly air cooled maybe the fiat engine or possibly a bug engine.

So what the top of the pops 1l or less engines? Bering in mined reliability and fix ability rather than out right power is what I’m looking for hear. I was also going to steer away from turbos.

People have taken Citroen 2CVs to ridiculous places - Sahara, etc - they have good ground clearance, very simple to maintain (if extremely odd) and can take a lot of knocks.

2CV is a good plan, air cooled, excellent suspension for bad roads, proper chassis, and you can put a spare engine on the back seat

[Edited on 15/9/06 by iank]

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Originally posted by iank
2CV is a good plan, air cooled, excellent suspension for bad roads, proper chassis, and you can put a spare engine on the back seat

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The SJ's are tough little machines, but tend to suffer from rust, so finding a decent one for little money may take some searching.

Not sure how the Bedford Rascal got onto the original list, hateful machines with all the stability of the current Labour party.

Anything wrong with the good ol Mini??? 998cc, competed in many a rally / round the world trips etc. Simple to maintain

...and take a portable winch with you

[Edited on 15-9-2006 by Donners90]

I was about to suggest that. Simple little car with simple points and a single su. Naff all to go wrong.

mini pepol do take them, I had also thourgh about a mini marcos as thay seam to have more load space. than a normal mini

I have been looking at vans and the like with the idear of using the back for beds. I also like things that a roof tent can be mounted on as less time putting up tent or making camp means more time driving or sleeping. also more space for spaire parts and other stuff.

blake

[Edited on 15/9/06 by ceebmoj]

[Edited on 15/9/06 by ceebmoj]

Have you ever seen a 2CV with the back seats taken out (an easy task)?

A very good amount of space - high too.

David

I saw the 24 houre 2cv race at Piston feast so have seen a bit of 2cv action and ho easy that are to work on / rase. also apreasheat the load capasity that have with no seats in. also saw a couple messing about in a feald doing well geting up banks and the like.


I am sure its a mental thing rathe than logic but it just does not seem the right car. I will go and have a good think about them.

blake

[Edited on 15/9/06 by ceebmoj]

Mini's also have a reasonable amount of space, especially the vans/pickups.

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Originally posted by DIY Si
Mini's also have a reasonable amount of space, especially the vans/pickups.

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The panda may be a blightly better option for the 4x4. I just couldn't take someone seriously in a 2cv rally car! What sort of off roading are we talking here? Steep slopes and stuff that's relatively smooth/flat, or rock strewn fields of boulders? Mini's can be made to have a 'good' ground clearance, but more may be required.

Mini's, 2CV's and Panda's all seem to appear in the web gallery pages as does the SJ (probably the most 'sensible' choice) and a Fiat 126 .

Ground clearance on mini will be the achillies heel.

http://www.mongolrally.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=92&page=4

Just read the vehicle rules. Might be best to take the pain and get a proper landrover

£100 fine per 0.1 litre over 1ltr, so £2500 sees a nice V8 on the grid

A Scooter sounds seriously hardcore

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1. The Vehicle Rule: You can only use a car with an engine of less than 1 litre, that is generally considered to be crap. Motorbikes are limited to under 125cc, ideally scooters (we're amicable chaps, so if you're desperate to use something bigger you can be accommodated, but you will be fined £100 for every 0.1ltr above the limit).

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that is generally considered to be crap

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hi,

been out for a play in a haflinger

http://www.mongoliaarewethereyet.com/haflinger.php

if any one is intrested in what I think about them.