Hi,
Does anyone know what the road traffic laws are when approaching a 3 lane roundabout from 2 lanes?

Specifically, I'm talking about a roundabout in Pollock in Glasgow where the immediate approach (ie. last 30 yards before roundabout) was widened a little while back to provide an extra lane.

Previously it was a 2 lane approach but now there is a 3rd and it causes no end of confusion.

It is clear that if you want to go left you use lane 1 on approach and keep left and if you want to go right you use lane 2 on approach and keep right into lane 3 for the last 30 yards. The confusion comes from the use of the new middle lane - nobody seems to know if you have right of way from lane 1 of the 2 lane dual carriageway or from lane 2. Neither have a clear right of way as the new middle lane is right down the middle of the two approach lanes.

The markings on the road for the new 3 lane section are: left+straight, straight, right only respectively.

So, who has right of way into the new middle lane on approach?

1. Lane 1 of dual carriageway
2. Lane 2 of dual carriageway
3. Neither

I only ask because someone nearly scuttled me last night and to be honest I don't know who was right and who was wrong...

Cheers,
Craig.

in these situations it's usually the guy with the cheapest/banger car that gets right-of-way

Don't really understand how the new lane can just appear without either the left lane splitting into two or the right lane splitting into two.

Noramally you get either this:

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Lane 2 for the people who arn't sure where the are going?

Difficult in this type of situation. We have a similar round about in Colchester and it's always a free-for-all on the approach. In the end it comes down to common sense but sadly a lot of drivers are lacking in this department

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Originally posted by gingerprince
in these situations it's usually the guy with the cheapest/banger car that gets right-of-way

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Originally posted by matt_claydon
Don't really understand how the new lane can just appear without either the left lane splitting into two or the right lane splitting into two.

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The usual rule for a 3 line island is that the left hand lane must turn off at the next junction. The middle lane then moves to the left and must turn off at the second exit. Traffic in the right hand lane can then move to the middle ready for the 3rd exit or stay right for later exits. Where an exit has 2 lanes, you can turn left from the middle lane on the island onto the right hand lane of the exit.

Most people are to stupid / careless / arrogant to follow the rules. I saw a near miss where someone in the left hand lane of an island wanted to turn right at the same time as a parrallel car in the 3rd lane wanted to go left. Neither car was indicating and they only just avoided a collision.

As for pulling from a 2 lane road onto a 3 lane island, I'd presume an equal right for the middle lane. Left hand lane traffic should reasonably expect to be able to go straight on at any junction unless the lane is marked turning left only.

Fair enough, white lines must have been painted by an idiot

I would say left lane has priority going into middle lane as this is standard roundabout practice for two-lane approach. Left for L / SO, right for R and full-circle. Don't see why people in the right lane should have any claim over the middle, as if they wanted to go straight on they shouldn't have been in the right lane on the approach.

You should write to the council and get the markings changed as they're asking for accidents to happen.

[Edited on 3/8/07 by matt_claydon]

Must be a Scottish thing...

On the road between Nairn and Inverness, near the airport, there's a roundabout with the most ridiculous markings I have EVER seen - lanes crossing over and generally going in random directions.

Everybody else must have been confused, 'cos no-one paid any attention to the markings and generally went their own sensible way. In fact, it worked better that way...

David

My parents have a friend in roads planning somewhere in kent, designing layouts etc.. (I wont say exactly where) I have alway's found it funny that he doesnt drive and dislikes cars..

If it's a 2 lane exits left lane for first exit, middle lane for straight on and right, right lane for right exit. Don't use your indicators under any circumstances, they are a total giveaway.

Guys,
The roundabout has 5 exits in total. I am approaching from one of them and there is a clear left, a clear right and two "straight ahead" exits. The roundabout is three lanes.

Here is a link to a google map of the RB in question. This was taken before they "upgraded" it to three lanes on the approach in question:



For reference, I am talking about approaching from the 11 oclock position and exiting on the half past 3 exit. To make room for the 3 lanes they took a chunk of the grass away on the left hand side as you approach and narrowed the other lanes slightly.

Cheers,
Craig.

[Edited on 3/8/2007 by craig1410]

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Originally posted by David Jenkins
Must be a Scottish thing...

On the road between Nairn and Inverness, near the airport, there's a roundabout with the most ridiculous markings I have EVER seen - lanes crossing over and generally going in random directions.

Everybody else must have been confused, 'cos no-one paid any attention to the markings and generally went their own sensible way. In fact, it worked better that way...

David

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obviously in a situation like this the markings are insufficient and you have to rely on your common sense and careful driving, but I'd say if anyone has any right of way it would be lane 2 of the dual carriageway. All extra lanes begin to the right of the 1st or 2nd or 3rd lanes, be it on a motorway, or coming to a dual carriageway, or coming to a roundabout.

You would assume drivers in lane 1 on the dual carriageway to continue into lane 1 on the roundabout approach, drivers in lane 2 on the dual carriageway to continue into lane 2 on the roundabout approach, and any drivers wanting the right turn to approach in lane two of the dual carriageway and indicate right into lane 3 on the roundabout approach.

Yup similar in bradford ( botom of Wakefield rd for locals )_ .

The 3 lane roundabout that you cant get 3 cars on ( 3 lanes strait on from town )

suddenly on the exit its down to 2 and then to 3 again.

PS its dificult with cars add a wagon and things get really intresting.

Best soloution battered landrover and nobody messes with you !!!

Regards

Agriv8

[Edited on 3/8/07 by Agriv8]

[Edited on 3/8/07 by Agriv8]

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Originally posted by ravingfool
obviously in a situation like this the markings are insufficient and you have to rely on your common sense and careful driving, but I'd say if anyone has any right of way it would be lane 2 of the dual carriageway. All extra lanes begin to the right of the 1st or 2nd or 3rd lanes, be it on a motorway, or coming to a dual carriageway, or coming to a roundabout.

You would assume drivers in lane 1 on the dual carriageway to continue into lane 1 on the roundabout approach, drivers in lane 2 on the dual carriageway to continue into lane 2 on the roundabout approach, and any drivers wanting the right turn to approach in lane two of the dual carriageway and indicate right into lane 3 on the roundabout approach.

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That's a crazy way to split two lanes into three!! what numpties!!

Still, in London we've got Swiss Cottage Roundabout. Now that's fun!!! It's just a case of floor it and hope for the best.....

At one point theres a section of road about 100M long. There's a slip road from the left, one from the right and one in the middle. At the exit its the same.

And all have green lights at the same time with no give way signs or demarcation lines... You get cars wanting to go left slip to right slip, some going the opposite way, some wanting to straight on.... Its crazy!!

I love it

I would respectfully suggest that neither of you had a right of way. You both changed lanes without due consideration for other road users and you've already stated that neither of you were indicating. If you had performed the manouvre correctly and were clearly in the middle lane when he collided with you (and you have witnesses to prove this ), then IMO you may have a case, otherwise I would apportion blame 50/50

Phil

sure, obviously I haven't seen the roundabout so my opinion is just a generalised idea from my experience, and unfortunately with the road markings unclear these things are open to dispute and different interpretations. You probably are best getting onto the council to have the situation made clearer with the markings.

you say the 1st and 2nd lanes allow you to exit at the 2nd of 5 exits? and that geographically the 2nd is to the left? Is the second exit the main exit on the far side of the roundabout though and more a defacto "straight on" possibly the road that would have been straight on before the roundabout?

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Originally posted by Hellfire
I would respectfully suggest that neither of you had a right of way. You both changed lanes without due consideration for other road users and you've already stated that neither of you were indicating. If you had performed the manouvre correctly and were clearly in the middle lane when he collided with you (and you have witnesses to prove this ), then IMO you may have a case, otherwise I would apportion blame 50/50

Phil

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Originally posted by ravingfool
sure, obviously I haven't seen the roundabout so my opinion is just a generalised idea from my experience, and unfortunately with the road markings unclear these things are open to dispute and different interpretations. You probably are best getting onto the council to have the situation made clearer with the markings.

you say the 1st and 2nd lanes allow you to exit at the 2nd of 5 exits? and that geographically the 2nd is to the left? Is the second exit the main exit on the far side of the roundabout though and more a defacto "straight on" possibly the road that would have been straight on before the roundabout?

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I guess you've just gotta do what everyone else in front of you is doing and hope the people behind and alongside you get with the program! then put your foot down and try and get some clear air between you and everything falling off your arse and enjoy the thrill of not knowing if you'll get round alive!

It seems like designing a roundabout must be hard work, cos it's rare to find a large one that feels perfectly natural. If that was your only near miss in two years of using the roundabout in it's new form then maybe it's not too bad as people must be dealing with it. Could always be worth a letter to the council though if its concerning you.

link

mint, it worked.

So there you have a 3 lane entry into a 2 lane roundabout. Whoever designed that should get battered senseless, then left lying on the white line on the roundabout.

Regarding craigs problem, id say neither automatically have right of way. Who dares wins

[Edited on 3/8/07 by JoelP]

Fairly recently some of the roundabouts near me have been changed to a similar layout. They have been marked up in the way 'smart51' mentions below. Although they did take a long time to do the markings. The changes to these roundabouts are actually an improvement, and have lessened the ques.

Having said the above.....the next roundabout (about 1 mile further on) has 5 exits and 3 lanes (on the main road). To be confusing this one has a different layout and is

Left Lane - 1st/2nd exit
Middle Lane - 2nd/3rd exit
Outside Lane - 3rd/4th/5th

This one is a nighmare and no-one knows what to do even though its been like this for years (and seem to have an inability to read the signage) so you take your life in your hands with that one......my normal plan of attack is pull out before the other 2 cars and then watch out for Numpty's

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Originally posted by smart51
The usual rule for a 3 line island is that the left hand lane must turn off at the next junction. The middle lane then moves to the left and must turn off at the second exit. Traffic in the right hand lane can then move to the middle ready for the 3rd exit or stay right for later exits. Where an exit has 2 lanes, you can turn left from the middle lane on the island onto the right hand lane of the exit.

Most people are to stupid / careless / arrogant to follow the rules. I saw a near miss where someone in the left hand lane of an island wanted to turn right at the same time as a parrallel car in the 3rd lane wanted to go left. Neither car was indicating and they only just avoided a collision.

As for pulling from a 2 lane road onto a 3 lane island, I'd presume an equal right for the middle lane. Left hand lane traffic should reasonably expect to be able to go straight on at any junction unless the lane is marked turning left only.

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i believe also that noone yet has mentioned the roundabouts with white lines all the way round, from which you can drive all the way round the outside lane if you so choose. If you're on the inside you must cross a white line to exit, hence you give way to people already in that lane. However, entry signage (arrows etc) usually contradicts this, making it a bit foolish to do even if you think you can.

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Originally posted by matt_claydon
Don't see why people in the right lane should have any claim over the middle, as if they wanted to go straight on they shouldn't have been in the right lane on the approach.

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Originally posted by JoelP
link

mint, it worked.

So there you have a 3 lane entry into a 2 lane roundabout. Whoever designed that should get battered senseless, then left lying on the white line on the roundabout.

Regarding craigs problem, id say neither automatically have right of way. Who dares wins

[Edited on 3/8/07 by JoelP]

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LOL JoelP that really is stupid!

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Originally posted by smart51
If you're on a dual carriageway with 2 lanes on each side, you can expect to be able to go straight on from the right hand lane.

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Rely on natural selection in confusing situations like this..

Fastest accelerating car+heaviest boot=vehicle with clear right of way!

Or for the creationists amongst you;

Best foot forward and trust in The Lord!

Personnally, on this one, I'm with Darwin.

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Originally posted by Fozzie
We shall be making our way back up there on Tuesday.........for a few weeks!

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Where situations like this exist... the general rule of thumb must apply.

If you are crossing any dotted white line you are technically making a dangerous manouvere and you should excercise caution, if a collision occurs as a result of this manouvere, (generally) you are in the wrong. The person who remains in the unmarked lane has right of way.

As Phil stated - you were both making dangerous manouveres therefore if anything happened, liability would indeed be split 50/50.

EDIT: using indicators is also a Give-Away as Pete suggested... it's only an indication request to make a manouvere not a notice of intent.

Steve

[Edited on 3-8-07 by Hellfire]

I have a similar roundabout on the way to work (J5 of the M3 at Hook to those that know the area). Approaching from Farnham is two lane dual carriageway, on the roundabout is three lanes with 5 exits in total (including coming back from whence you came). Left is M3 South, 2nd exit is dual carriageway at about 11 O'Clock, 3rd exit is single carriageway about 1 O'Clock and 4th Exit is the sliproad for M3 North.

Almost identical to this layout (on the Highway Code website) but imagine the roundabout has 3 marked lanes on it, and the road going bottom left to top right is the Motorway running underneath



I arrive at the roundabout from bottom right and want to take the 3rd exit, the vertical one in this diagram. I do as the red car does, take the right hand lane, then take the middle lane onto the roundabout (left lane should go first exit, middle lane my exit, RH lane takes M3 north IMHO), but loads of people approach in the left lane then want to take the middle lane on the roundabout, which effectively in their minds means that the left lane gets the choice of three "lanes" (ie M3 South plus both left and middle lanes on the roundabout), whereas the right lane should only go M3 north.

I had a lively discussion about it at work with a colleague who claims doing this IS correct and Im wrong because the signs dont tell you to get into a certain lane. His argument is that you don't know the middle roundabout lane is there so you cant know which lane to approach in so can use the middle lane from either, but his argument (IMHO) doesnt stack up because if there were only two lanes on the roundabout you should still approach in the right lane to take exit 3 and exit 4, in the left to take exit 1 and two. Also seeing as he does the journey every day like me, I dont think you can simply claim ignorance every time you approach it!

[Edited on 3/8/07 by ChrisGamlin]

I have just spent 3 weeks driving in Italy !!! Roundabouts are a very interesting challenge there where everybody seems to have right of way no matter what the road markings are

Chris - if every car used the outer (marked) lane, if there are no steering lanes then the car in the outside lane ALWAYS has right of way irrespective of whether they are going right, striaght ahead or right.

Steve