Anyone else feel sorry for Ron?
craig1410 - 6/8/07 at 10:50 AM
Did anyone else see Ron Dennis being interviewed by Steve Rider and Mark Blundell yesterday?
Was I the only one who felt a bit sorry for big Ron?
Normally he'd be one of the last people I'd feel sorry for and he is normally so super-controlled in what he says and how he says it but
yesterday he just looked like he was going to burst into tears. You could hear his voice breaking up and everything.
I think that Alonso and Hamilton really really need to take a long look at themselves because if they carry on like this neither of them will win the
championship! I'm a big Alonso fan and as current champ you can understand why he might expect special treatment, especially with a rookie team
mate but of course Hamilton is better than any rookie we've seen before. Also, Kimi and Massa don't (yet) have any priority within Ferrari.
I personally think that Hamilton needs to be brought down a peg or two as he is way up there in the clouds - I mean, did you hear about him having a
"foul-mouthed" go at Ron Dennis over the radio after he missed his qualy lap? This was what prompted Dennis to throw down his headset in
disgust! That is totally unacceptablee in my view.
Anyway, I hope Ron doesn't quit as has been suggested because F1 wouldn't be the same without him.
Cheers,
Craig.
mookaloid - 6/8/07 at 10:59 AM
Yes I noticed that Ron seemed a little shaky 
I'm inclined to believe him when he says that there were faults on both sides and the pressure on Ron seems to be showing - I still don't
like Alonso though.
I think for next season they should dump Alonso and get Button - he would be the ideal partner for Hammy, he has the ability to take pressure and is
calm and thoughtful - and he is just as good a driver as Alonso.
theconrodkid - 6/8/07 at 11:04 AM
he has a driver with HUGE ego who hates being 2nd and a rookie who on par if not better than him.
alonso,like schumi before him will stop at nothing to get a win,he needs tea and bics with big ron and to be told who is in charge and if he dosntt
like the way it is he knows where the door is.
corse this will never happen as its not a sport anymore and they wont want to upset sponsors etc
as above,give JB the drive
[Edited on 6/8/07 by theconrodkid]
Agriv8 - 6/8/07 at 11:11 AM
Its a shame but a victim of his own sucess.
Baggeing the previous champ and the Rokkie that he has invested in for the last 8 years.
Unfortunatly they are both playing games to ensure they are 'Top Dog' I think this weekend it has finally spilt over onto the race track.
BOTH drivers and individual managers need hauling into the office and given a talking to IMOA.
It reflected badly on the team that they have one of the best cars the two best drivers but they let the rivalry get in the way of what should have
been another perfect weekend.
That my 2p worth anyway
Regards
Agriv8
TGR-ECOSSE - 6/8/07 at 11:34 AM
You have tofeel sorry for Ron having to deal with his 2 children in public! Forget Button get Dario Franchitti in the car against Hamilton !!!!!
scoop - 6/8/07 at 11:55 AM
I did feel for Ron but, hes at the top of his game, The Piranha and earning a lot of dosh. So, for me it all evens out somehow. I did hear last night
on Five Sport that a rep of Alonso said either he will be leaving the team at the end of the year or that he should leave the team. I wish i had been
listening better now
Yes get JB in for me. If Hill thinks hes that good then ill go with that.
Ivan - 6/8/07 at 12:08 PM
Firstly let me apologise to all who I might offend.
I am extremely dissapointed in Hammy for putting the team and Ron in this position.
He should be more than satisfied to take second place in his first season for a team (but not in the points standing) that has contributed hugely to
his success, whilst making it clear to the team that he is aware of Alonso's tactics but is swallowing them only because of his appreciation of
the team and Ron and that next season would be a totally different gloves off game.
He should swallow his pride and do all he can - including grovelling to Alonso off track to rebuild the team. It might smart but he can always show
whose best in the race.
At the moment he has left me with the impression that he's an ungrateful little git.
- albeit a brilliant driver.
Dusty - 6/8/07 at 12:33 PM
I have to agree, at least in part that Hamilton should remember he owes Ron big time and treat him and the team with total respect. Can't see
that he has any obligation not to embarrass Alonso unless the team tell him that is the way they want it.
BenB - 6/8/07 at 01:04 PM
Am I missing something here?
Didn't Alonso (with our without Ron's knowledge) hold up Hamilton so he couldn't get a last flying lap in.
I'd be pretty pi$$ed too!!!!
If Alonso was holding Hamilton up in the pit box then Ron should have been on the radio whiping his arse. If he wasn't then its fair enough for
Hamilton to have a go at him....
zxrlocost - 6/8/07 at 01:13 PM
if only Bryan Clough was still here and a formula one boss....
On dealing with someone who disagrees: "We talk about it for 20 minutes and then we decide I was right."
[Edited on 6/8/07 by zxrlocost]
craig1410 - 6/8/07 at 02:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Am I missing something here?
Didn't Alonso (with our without Ron's knowledge) hold up Hamilton so he couldn't get a last flying lap in.
I'd be pretty pi$$ed too!!!!
If Alonso was holding Hamilton up in the pit box then Ron should have been on the radio whiping his arse. If he wasn't then its fair enough for
Hamilton to have a go at him....
I think you must have missed the part where Hamilton refused the team's instruction to follow a pre-arranged plan to allow Alonso to pass during
Q3. This was to do with the fact that the drivers take turns to lead Q3 - part of Ron's equality thing. Lewis refused which lead to the pit stops
being out of sequence and the team then had to hold Alonso twice in the pit box to get him in clear air. I wouldn't blame Alonso if he did delay
a bit the last time just to make his point that it was Hamilton who screwed up.
I agree 100% with Ivan above that Hamilton is showing signs of being an "ungrateful little git" and Ron needs to kick his arse into shape.
Alonso has earned respect by winning 2 championships in what was probably not the best car on the grid. Hamilton is undoubtedly good but has yet to
earn his place amongst the champions.
As for Button, I'm not convinced that he has the technical know-how to lead an F1 team and this may be part of Honda's problem. McLaren
suffered badly by having Kimi and Montoya because neither of them were hard grafters who could communicate with the engineers on car setup. Coulthard
for his faults has always excelled in this regard even though he may not be naturally as gifted. Schumacher was obviously brilliant at car setup and I
don't think Alonso is far behind and is still a young man.
In my opinion, for what it's worth, Alonso should lead the team and Hamilton should content himself with a year of learning. They should be
allowed to race freely on track but behind the scenes Alonso's experience should be given precedence.
All IMHO of course,
Craig.
[Edited on 6/8/2007 by craig1410]
BenB - 6/8/07 at 02:46 PM
Oh okay, fair enough!!!
Definately sounds like someone has got too big for their racing boots!!!!
craig1410 - 6/8/07 at 02:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Oh okay, fair enough!!!
Definately sounds like someone has got too big for their racing boots!!!!
Sad but true I think. It's not going to do him any good in the long run either - I think he needs Ron or his Dad or someone to bring him down
from the clouds before any lasting damage is done.
Cheers,
Craig.
jollygreengiant - 6/8/07 at 02:59 PM
IF you are a 'RACING' driver then you should let your quality speak for it's self ON THE TRACK.
A world champion racing driver is only as good as the last season that he won and IF he can't beat the others ON THE TRACK then he should
recognise his limitations and either improve, accept it OR quit. I think that there was so much going on that we will never truly know what was or
wasn't. But the old adage still holds true perception is everything and if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck
..................................................................
That my humble opinion
craig1410 - 6/8/07 at 04:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
IF you are a 'RACING' driver then you should let your quality speak for it's self ON THE TRACK.
A world champion racing driver is only as good as the last season that he won and IF he can't beat the others ON THE TRACK then he should
recognise his limitations and either improve, accept it OR quit. I think that there was so much going on that we will never truly know what was or
wasn't. But the old adage still holds true perception is everything and if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck
..................................................................
That my humble opinion
Not too sure what you are meaning. Are you suggesting that 2 times World Champion Alonso is a duck? Hmm...
In any event, ability isn't really the issue here - the issue is whether the drivers follow pre-agreed team tactics or not. They may be racing
drivers but they are also EMPLOYEES!
It's also a question of respect for both your team mate and perhaps more importantly the team boss who funded your career. Without Ron, Hamilton
would be nobody and he seems to have forgotten that or he wouldn't have been abusive on the radio to him.
[Edited on 6/8/2007 by craig1410]
TimC - 6/8/07 at 04:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
Firstly let me apologise to all who I might offend.
I am extremely dissapointed in Hammy for putting the team and Ron in this position.
He should be more than satisfied to take second place in his first season for a team (but not in the points standing) that has contributed hugely to
his success, whilst making it clear to the team that he is aware of Alonso's tactics but is swallowing them only because of his appreciation of
the team and Ron and that next season would be a totally different gloves off game.
He should swallow his pride and do all he can - including grovelling to Alonso off track to rebuild the team. It might smart but he can always show
whose best in the race.
At the moment he has left me with the impression that he's an ungrateful little git.
- albeit a brilliant driver.
I can understand where you (and others) are coming from but that is probably why you and I are not top sportsmen/captains of industry etc etc. Top
level-anything means that you need a strong ruthless streak to beat the competition.
You are bound to upset people from time-to-time. It comes with the territory.
craig1410 - 6/8/07 at 05:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TimC
quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
Firstly let me apologise to all who I might offend.
I am extremely dissapointed in Hammy for putting the team and Ron in this position.
He should be more than satisfied to take second place in his first season for a team (but not in the points standing) that has contributed hugely to
his success, whilst making it clear to the team that he is aware of Alonso's tactics but is swallowing them only because of his appreciation of
the team and Ron and that next season would be a totally different gloves off game.
He should swallow his pride and do all he can - including grovelling to Alonso off track to rebuild the team. It might smart but he can always show
whose best in the race.
At the moment he has left me with the impression that he's an ungrateful little git.
- albeit a brilliant driver.
I can understand where you (and others) are coming from but that is probably why you and I are not top sportsmen/captains of industry etc etc. Top
level-anything means that you need a strong ruthless streak to beat the competition.
You are bound to upset people from time-to-time. It comes with the territory.
Fair point but every game and every company has rules which you need to follow. Also, remember this is a team game and if you can't communicate
with the team and follow team tactics then you will not succeed. Just look at Schumacher for an example - just about every member of that team would
have jumped in front of a bullet for him. In my opinion that was a big part of his success. Hakkinen and Alonso are another couple of good examples
where ambition is tempered with team play.
britishtrident - 6/8/07 at 07:35 PM
Unlike say Frank Williams Ron has always been exceptionally loyal to his drivers I think he thought he had found two exceptional young drivers who
would work together for the team over a long period the way Mika & DC did.
Ron has been through ego wars with Mansel/Prost v Senna that make the current pantomine look tame.
Talk is Alonso will go to BMW, however on current form his natural home would be Ferrari, who might just be interested lets face it Massa and Raikonin
aren't exactly consistant performers.
[Edited on 6/8/07 by britishtrident]
Volvorsport - 6/8/07 at 08:13 PM
ive yet to see any sincerity from hamilton , and when it was wet - he put his car off the track .
hes very good , but hes not building any respect at the moment .
alonso has never been ultimately the quickest over a single lap , its his sustained race pace that won him the championship , i think quite a lot of
drivers would be doing what hamilton is doing in that maclaren .
omega 24 v6 - 6/8/07 at 08:25 PM
According to teletext Ron says if Alonso can't race with equal parity with Hammy then he's free to go. After having time to think about it
I'm not so sure Hammy's blameless over the weekend debacle. Alonso's pride is hurt by the young gun who's talent is there for all
to see. However the more experienced man needs to get his head down and do the business and prove he's the man.
tks - 6/8/07 at 08:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by TimC
quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
Firstly let me apologise to all who I might offend.
I am extremely dissapointed in Hammy for putting the team and Ron in this position.
He should be more than satisfied to take second place in his first season for a team (but not in the points standing) that has contributed hugely to
his success, whilst making it clear to the team that he is aware of Alonso's tactics but is swallowing them only because of his appreciation of
the team and Ron and that next season would be a totally different gloves off game.
He should swallow his pride and do all he can - including grovelling to Alonso off track to rebuild the team. It might smart but he can always show
whose best in the race.
At the moment he has left me with the impression that he's an ungrateful little git.
- albeit a brilliant driver.
I can understand where you (and others) are coming from but that is probably why you and I are not top sportsmen/captains of industry etc etc. Top
level-anything means that you need a strong ruthless streak to beat the competition.
You are bound to upset people from time-to-time. It comes with the territory.
Fair point but every game and every company has rules which you need to follow. Also, remember this is a team game and if you can't communicate
with the team and follow team tactics then you will not succeed. Just look at Schumacher for an example - just about every member of that team would
have jumped in front of a bullet for him. In my opinion that was a big part of his success. Hakkinen and Alonso are another couple of good examples
where ambition is tempered with team play.
I'm totally with you!! Don't forget the crane!
He was very lucky in the nurburing that he was reputted in to the field!!! Else it was just a rookie error and end of race for Hammy! No offence
everything is new for him, but being egoistic and not follow team tactics is in my opinion in F1 a really really big mistake! Don't forget that
half McClaren is Alonso team and half McClaren is Hammilton.
Also don't forget being a rookie he gets every telemetrie and settings straight from Alonso's car , he might show some more respect for
Alonso. Remember what Alonso did (by 0,6 seconds) wasn't good either.
Also if i was Ron, i would have less fear and some more guts to wash the mouth of Hammy.... not showing respect either...
Also i blame the Team allot for letting Hammilton out, if it was Alonso's turn to go first, in the end its there where all the chit begun!In
Renault an error like that would not be made.
gazza285 - 6/8/07 at 09:25 PM
Yyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnn.
I'm sure the team managers would be happier with some camel jockeys driving.
craig1410 - 6/8/07 at 09:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
Yyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnn.
Don't let us keep you up.
gazza285 - 6/8/07 at 09:56 PM
Going right off now, 'night.
craig1410 - 6/8/07 at 09:58 PM
'night then.
britishtrident - 7/8/07 at 08:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
According to teletext Ron says if Alonso can't race with equal parity with Hammy then he's free to go. After having time to think about it
I'm not so sure Hammy's blameless over the weekend debacle. Alonso's pride is hurt by the young gun who's talent is there for all
to see. However the more experienced man needs to get his head down and do the business and prove he's the man.
When Prost was at McLaren exactly the same thing happened Senna acted the spoilt brat and Prost lowered himself to Senna's level.
The first shots in this war were fired by Alonso a couple of months back, but through taking the bait Hamilton is now in a situation where he has to
win the world championship or become unemployable.
Alonso is only slightly more employable, but I can think of at least four names that would do as good a job for Ron, what price a driver swap with
BMW.
Personally I would love to see Button or Webber or Kubica in a McLaren.
My bet is Alonso will go, Ron sights are on the championships within the next month he has to back one driver or the drivers championship will slip
from his grasp. Alonso is great but Hamilton is already great and has more to come.
Meanwhile behind closed motorhome doors I am will to bet the Ferrari drivers are equally at war, neither has exactly shone consistently. Perhaps it is
symptom of Ferrari's current internal politics that red cars are usually widely separated on the grid and in the race.
[Edited on 7/8/07 by britishtrident]
designer - 7/8/07 at 08:46 PM
Frank Williams would have sacked Hamilton for doing that. He has had no second thoughts about getting rid of world champions; he's done it
twice.
Besides, Kubica is better than Hamilton.
omega 24 v6 - 7/8/07 at 09:51 PM
quote:
Personally I would love to see Button or Webber or Kubica in a McLaren
Now your talking all. All of these drivers in equall machinery would be an amazing spectacle. Although as seen on Sunday the dirty air scenario really
mucks things up. It's a pity that there is not a way of overcoming this cause it'd improve the veiwing figures dramatically IMHO.
craig1410 - 7/8/07 at 10:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
quote:
Personally I would love to see Button or Webber or Kubica in a McLaren
Now your talking all. All of these drivers in equall machinery would be an amazing spectacle. Although as seen on Sunday the dirty air scenario really
mucks things up. It's a pity that there is not a way of overcoming this cause it'd improve the veiwing figures dramatically IMHO.
Maybe I'm missing something but here's what I'd do to improve the racing:
1. Go back to slick tyres
2. Reduce wing sizes by perhaps 50%
3. Keep the rev limit at 19k but give them an overtake button which can be pressed once per lap which extends the rev limit to something like
21-22k.
4. No refuelling during race.
5. Tyre replacements during race allowed but any excessive wear (use coloured wear limit for visual indication) will result in penalties and perhaps
DQ.
Top speeds might get a bit high with the reduced wing but this can be addressed with a reduction in power if necessary. The main aim should be to
reduce the dependency on downforce and increase mechanical grip.
Just my 2p worth.
Cheers,
Craig.