Hi all,

I am looking at purchasing my first welder, i already have a car on the road so it will be for relatively light use, ie making brackets and small jobs etc.

I know MIG is the best option for this and supposedly easiest to use. I have never welded before and would like advice on what type of set up to buy.

what sort of Amperage machine will i need, i guess the thickest stuff i will weld will be maybe 3-5mm plate for rear axle mountings etc.

Also would you recommend gassless or a gas set up. my budget is probably about £200. New or Second hand?

any advice appreciated.

Regards
ColinViper

[Edited on 17/9/03 by colmaccoll]

Viper is yer man here.

From my experience as an amateur thats repaired a rear ended metro with a professional 180+ welder and made my car with a clarke 100a (!) welder, I can say go for the best power range you can!

Go for a 150a model and avoid gasless


use co2 argon mix - much neater and EASIER than co2 only.

atb
steve

Viper,

You are the knowledge of all thing welded or weldable then!?

Can you sehd any further light on Steves suggestions?

Where would you advise purchasing from, Halfords? Machine Mart, ScrewFix or anywhere else you would personally recomend?

Cheers

Colin

Steves right about all that, just make sure you know what you power supply is capable of powering.

Ie, an extemsion lead is usually only 13amps, a household circuit something like 20 to 30(?), and the whole consumer board not much more.

I just asked for the most powerful one that a normal circuit could power (runs ok on 13amps), but it is a trifle lacking in umph...!

Cant work out why they're described as 100amps but run on 13. anyone know?

Have a look HERE

Seems like a good deal to me - although the mention of 'New year special' may mean that their website just needs updating..?

Dave

It's a bit complicated but generally the voltage is reduced whilst retaining the Wattage ie 240V @ 13 Amps = 3KW
Therefore, 120V @ 26 Amps = 3KW
So, to obtain the 100 Amps target - the Voltage would have to be reduced to 31.2V = 3KW. Thereby retaining the total power consumption (Watts).

Voltage is need to push Amps through - bit like a water pipe - you can have lots of water pressure (Amps) but little flow (Volts)! Basically, manufacturers have a limit with domestic 240V supplies. Most main feeds into domestic houses is 80 Amps. Well it is on mine but then my house is 100 years old!!!

I'm no expert on this, but I've tried to explain it in the simplest way I can...

quote:

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Originally posted by MK Urbantiger

Voltage is need to push Amps through - bit like a water pipe - you can have lots of water pressure (Amps) but little flow (Volts

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I have a MIG bought from Machine Mart, I think it is a Clarke 150 - very happy with it, cost was about £160. It works both gasless and with gas - I prefer the gas option, but if welding outside on a windy day gasless is much better. I think it probably works out more expensive to weld with the gasless wire but have never properly measured this, just find it useful to have the choice.

This is my second MIG - the transformer went in the first one after at least ten years of usage - fairly heavy amatuer usage rate I would guess.

try here for migs

http://search.ebay.co.uk/ws/search/SaleSearch?satitle=mig+welder&socurrencydisplay=2&salocatedincountry=3&maxrecordsreturned=300&sosor tproperty=1&ht=1&from=R10&sorecordsperpage=50&BasicSearch=

Avoid gasless like the plague. I've got one and it's terrible! Even Conrod and Merlin (both experienced welders) couldn't produce any decent results with it. Oh, and the wire costs a bomb - like £45 for a 5kg spool.

Chris

I use gasless, only because I've done most of my Locost welding but still need to do the occasional 'gluing job'. This means that I can still do some welding without having to pay the gas cylinder rental charges.

I've managed to make some respectable welds, but only in metal larger than 1.6mm/16SWG. At (or below) that size I found that there's a significant risk of blowing holes - might be my technique, though!

It is expensive, but I only bought a 1kg reel, which is enough for my needs.

For fancy stuff (e.g. recent sump shortening) I used my scratch-start TIG, which still has a gas cylinder attached.

David

one of the jobs i was going to attempt was the sump, is this doable with a MIG?

Col

Certainly - it's what most people use. Don't be surprised if you get a leak or two though! These can be sealed up by brazing later on.

David

quote:

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Originally posted by colmaccoll
one of the jobs i was going to attempt was the sump, is this doable with a MIG?

Col

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simpley put,

Go for mig (not gasless)
try to get one that will run 15kg spools of wire, cheaper in the long run and chuck a load of those silica gel packets in the enclosed space that holds the wire.

Gas to use is Argon/co2 mix you will find it easier to use and get decent results, you don't need a massive gas flow around 8 ltrs a min is plenty.

machine and power, anything you can get single phase you will be able to run at home because you won't be using loads of power anyway, but a machine that is capable of high outputs generaly gives a more stable arc at lower settings.
so go for the biggest you can afford.

best place to buy a machine is your local welding supplier, any decent supplier can give you good advice on settings and as they are local any probs or spares you might need should be easy to get and you never know they might even have something like a Kemppi kempomat 250 traded in....
think that about covers it...

I agree with everything that Viper has said except for the 15Kg wire. Yes - get a machine that will hold 15Kg wire, but use 5Kg's aswell. The wire feed on DIY machines is right on the limit on 15Kg's - it will slowly pull the wire at the begining of the weld and when you shut off it will still push the wire due to the flywheel effect of the 15Kg spool (thats 33lbs!!!). The end effect is the begining of the weld is undercut due to the lack of feed and the end of the weld is overladen due to the excess of feed. On a locost chassis the average weld is 25mm long, so about 5mm in the middle is properly welded.

If you use 5Kg's the feed system is well within the design requirements and will weld a treat.

End up - a second hand 200amp welder at £175 will be a better bargain than a £175 new DIY one.

The saving of a 15Kg spool over a 5Kg is about £1.50, I have used 1 1/2 spools of % kg so far and am now at the stage of welding the odd bracket on. To think - I could have saved about £2.00 on the whole build!!!!!!!!!!!

e. I have never welded before and would like advice on what type of set up to buy.

Regards
ColinViper

[Edited on 17/9/03 by colmaccoll]

I would have thought what you need from your description and budget is about a 130 amp mig. It'll do up to 5mm and run happily off the mains. Something like these:

http://www.parkertools.co.uk/macros/Product.mac/Product?VisitorID=8L4XHJ4L03J&Status=guest&ProductNo=0448044&StockNo=0

http://www.welduk.com/catalogue/ultradevcart/product_detail.asp?referringId=5

But I agree that if you get it locally you'll get more support with advice and spares etc.

I've recently bought a second hand 150 DP - it does the business but trips the CBs every now and again, mind you it does say in the blurb that it needs a 20amp supply.

Incidentally, if anyone's looking for a bigger bottle gas supplier I've just started a contract with Energas. It was a better deal than BOC but may be a local North East thing. I have details if anyone wants.

I'll agree with that, I've been plugging Energas on here for ages. I got fed up of BOC ripping me off with a handling charge when I fetch my own bottle. I use an Erfi 170 off the domestic supply no problem with a big reel fitted. It needs an adaptor to use anything smaller.

yours, Pete.

So I take it Geoff, that the deal bennets are doing (see my earlier post) is a good deal then ?

SIP Migmate 150 £185 inc VAT........ (£356.36 @ Parkers)

[Edited on 19/9/03 by protofj]

quote:

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Originally posted by thekafer
I have'nt seen anyone suggest an auto darkening helmet, but they rock!

They're getting cheaper too.Mine was $200 two years ago.The same model now goes for $110!!

Fletch

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Ditto - my welding improved 1000% once I could see where the wire was aiming...

DJ

RE: my last post ....I have just tried to order the Mig welder from Bennetts website and low and behold... the site is buggered when you get to 'checkout'.
Currently waiting for them to get back to me on this - but I'm not holding my breath

Surprising news - Bennets got back to me and honoured their web offer. They only had 2 left and one just happened to be in Ipswich

SO.. they have one SIP Migmate 150 left in thier Sheffiled store. for the princely sum of £185 inc VAT + £5 for delivery.

If you want it I suggest contacting through their web site and quoting the deal advertised.....

Looking atwelders for my post chassis build...
i.e. chassis built, just odds n sod, brackets etc etc
Halfords have 20% off SIP Migmate welders- 105 turbo model for £120.00
looks like a good enough deal, and powerful enough, I think...