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F1 News - BMW being investigated and Lewis may get title!!
mad dad - 21/10/07 at 09:42 PM

Just been on news that BMW are being investigated for possible irregularities and if found guilty means there drivers could be disqualified which would move Lewis into 4th and give him the title.........how would Kimi feel about that!!!

Jon Ison - 21/10/07 at 09:44 PM

Keep up at the Back , sorry allways wanted to do that, plenty have done it to me..........

mad dad - 21/10/07 at 09:48 PM

bugger thought i had a first...... must read all posts before putting up a new one!!!!

AdamR - 21/10/07 at 10:06 PM

What a fitting end to such a turbulent season of political subterfuge and intrigue that would be!

I think we'd all be left with a bad taste in our mouths if Kimi get's demoted through another team being found cheating... whatever it means for Lewis.

I imagine the FIA will limit the punishment to BMW/Williams if found guilty.

omega 24 v6 - 21/10/07 at 10:13 PM

quote:

I think we'd all be left with a bad taste in our mouths if Kimi get's demoted through another team being found cheating... whatever it means for Lewis.


WHY?? Ferrari have a constuctors championship for the VERY SAME but IMHO not proven reasons. Cheating is cheating. Although I understand where your coming from it'd be a lot better/more satisfying to win on the day.

Paul TigerB6 - 21/10/07 at 10:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by AdamR

I imagine the FIA will limit the punishment to BMW/Williams if found guilty.


Why should they??
If they gained an unfair advantage by breaking the rules then they denied Hamilton the chance to gain the 5th place he needed to be champion. Not a good way to win it admittedly but them's the rules.

wheelfelloff - 21/10/07 at 10:54 PM

Personally I can't see any chance of the result being changed. It wasn't Ron and his team this time so there won't be any punishment. If they manage something they will remove the points from the teams and let the race result stand. No balls and anyway Bernie is already celebrating. At least it won't be bothering Kimi at the moment he will be legless already.

Just one more reason Iwon't be watching next years championship, why should I the red team will win again even if their cars need to be pushed round.

Keith

Peteff - 22/10/07 at 12:15 AM

Stewards are not imposing any penalty.

Mark. - 22/10/07 at 08:57 AM

should be renamed......formula farce!

RickRick - 22/10/07 at 10:44 AM

i think all the results for this farce, err season should be void let spiker win just for laughs and get it right next year

britishtrident - 22/10/07 at 10:52 AM

To put numbers on it a 2 degree difference in fuel temp outside the allowed 10 degrees below ambient. In view of the very high temps at Interlagos this year it shouldn't be a hanging offence.

Reducing the fuel temp gives three advantages, (1) more fuel can be transfered in a given time. (2) slight power advantage. (3) fuel system is less likely to suffer from vapour locks.

On all three counts 2 degrees won't make much difference.

Paul TigerB6 - 22/10/07 at 12:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident

On all three counts 2 degrees won't make much difference.



Well in one case it was 4 degrees and not 2. but whatever the case they clearly breached the stated rules so should pay a penalty. Problem here is it just seems to be a case that the stewards / FIA seem to be making up the penalties as they go along and as Damon Hill said in one of the links there seems to be no consistency. Personally i think they should have the rules and more importantly the associated penalties written in tablets of stone - be it points exclusions, position drops, time penalties etc etc. At the moment its just far to poor a situation that titles are getting decided not exactly on the track.

jollygreengiant - 22/10/07 at 12:40 PM

If the rules are not going to be adhered to and or just enforced when and if someone sees fit, then why bother having the rules at all.

IF it was due to the heat then why didn't the other teams have the same problem.

Mind you as the results stand it means that Ferrari have both the constructors AND the drivers championship in their grubby little pockets. Personally I can't see any punishment being doled out because that would mean that Ferrari would end up loosing the drivers championship.

As I said in another post header 'What Bernie wants................'

craig1410 - 22/10/07 at 02:17 PM

As I read it the problem is that the rules themselves are very vague and don't absolutely specify which ambient temperature reading is to be used as the official figure. Apparently the FOM readings and the FIA readings don't match.

Also, the rules state that the fuel in the tank must be no less than 10 degrees below ambient but as far as I can tell they don't actually measure the fuel in the tank. I guess they must measure the fuel temperature in the fueling rig or something.

So, given that the car going round the track on a rapidly emptying tank is likely to have residual fuel at a temperature higher than ambient (engine heat etc) and the tank itself is likely to be hot then it would be reasonable to pump in cooler fuel so that the resulting fuel in the tank is within the 10 degree tolerance. Also, the fact that there is uncertainty over what the ambient temperature reference source actually is doesn't help. If ambient temperature is so important then an official figure should be given to each team from ONE reference source.

I think it would be utterly ridiculous to overturn Kimi's championship at this stage and over a very vague rule. To me that would put the tin lid on what has been a silly season for a number of reasons. One more wrong won't make the season right!!

I'm disappointed in McLaren for pursuing this to be honest and I count myself as a McLaren fan. Come on Ron, let it rest!

Cheers,
Craig.

cossey - 22/10/07 at 08:07 PM

the advantage that could have be gained would not be enough to make the difference that they beat hamilton by so it would be a disgusting end to an already highly troubled season if they stripped kimi of his title over it.

craig1410 - 22/10/07 at 08:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cossey
the advantage that could have be gained would not be enough to make the difference that they beat hamilton by so it would be a disgusting end to an already highly troubled season if they stripped kimi of his title over it.


Agreed! The figure I read was that the 4 degree lower fuel temperature would have resulted in a 1 second advantage over the entire race distance! The cooler fuel only stays cool for 3 laps apparently and that's assuming by the time it got into the tank that it was still cooler than ambient.

From recent posts on the various F1 websites, neither Alonso nor Hamilton want the championship decided in this way. Why are McLaren pursuing it? My guess is they are just making a point and spoiling Ferrari's party. I reckon they will withdraw their protest in the coming days.

Cheers,
Craig.

designer - 23/10/07 at 05:53 PM

I would like to know at what temperature it was pumped in at!!

The test was after the race had finished, AND it was still too cold!! Doesn't seem reasonably to me!

I remember Colin Chapman originating this idea to get more fuel into the tank.

Rob Palin - 23/10/07 at 07:39 PM

No the test wasn't after the race, it was from the sensors fitted to the fuel rig itself and logged by the FIA directly *during* the race. It was not sampled afterwards.

As has been explained elsewhere, the fuel heats up well beyond the legal threshold when put through the pump - which is precisely why they chill it so much in the rig.

barrie sharp - 24/10/07 at 11:55 AM

Lewis didnt have a chance from the start just food for thought perhaps it was all part of the deal with ferrari ?
Bernie said at the start it would be good for kimi or alonso to win without mentioning lewis and looking back one very uncharicteristic 'mistake' by the team (tyres last race),Then, Lewis driving very different from the start (not got flusted all season and driving off) then a technical fault for 40 seconds? (they have not had a single fault all season).When has that happened to any car that has not retired soon after, Then there was the 3rd pit stop? dont tell that was the plan all along..
All too strange for me and I watch every race.
It's all decided in the FIA office now!
next season I will just phone up their office to find the end result (by the way their office must be very nice shade of red)
I am Dissapointed with the season and I am a race fan not any particular team?
rant over

soggy 3 - 24/10/07 at 08:23 PM

I have to agree ,what was the third stop all about!

RickRick - 25/10/07 at 06:59 AM

also lewis had his gearbox stripped for scrutineering before the start of the race

Russ-Turner - 25/10/07 at 05:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by barrie sharp
Lewis didnt have a chance from the start just food for thought perhaps it was all part of the deal with ferrari ?
Bernie said at the start it would be good for kimi or alonso to win without mentioning lewis and looking back one very uncharicteristic 'mistake' by the team (tyres last race),Then, Lewis driving very different from the start (not got flusted all season and driving off) then a technical fault for 40 seconds? (they have not had a single fault all season).When has that happened to any car that has not retired soon after, Then there was the 3rd pit stop? dont tell that was the plan all along..
All too strange for me and I watch every race.
It's all decided in the FIA office now!
next season I will just phone up their office to find the end result (by the way their office must be very nice shade of red)
I am Dissapointed with the season and I am a race fan not any particular team?
rant over


LOL, classic airmchair hero post.

Russ-Turner - 25/10/07 at 05:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by soggy 3
I have to agree ,what was the third stop all about!


You'll have to ask Ron that.