A PC dilema for Peter Jackson
scotty g - 25/11/07 at 01:02 PM
Just been reading an interesting article about Peter Jacksons remake of "The Dambusters" and it seems there is a bit of a dilema,
The big controversy is over the name of the Squadron leader Guy Gibson's dog.
this dog played an important role in both the film and the true story, its name was used as a code word to signify that the mission was successful,
its name?....Nigger.
So Peter can either use the real name and everyone is up in arms about it, or he uses another name and everyone is up in arms about PC-gone-mad!
what do you do Peter, what do you do?
blakep82 - 25/11/07 at 01:08 PM
use it. the dog played an important part in history, and that was his name.
i think most people will be offended, just because they want to be.
[Edited on 25/11/07 by blakep82]
Wadders - 25/11/07 at 01:11 PM
Black people seem to use that term frequently to each other, so personally i don't see a problem with it, so long as it's not being used as
an insult. Can't imagine the dog will get upset 
Al.
Originally posted by scotty g
Just been reading an interesting article about Peter Jacksons remake of "The Dambusters" and it seems there is a bit of a dilema,
The big controversy is over the name of the Squadron leader Guy Gibson's dog.
this dog played an important role in both the film and the true story, its name was used as a code word to signify that the mission was successful,
its name?....Nigger.
So Peter can either use the real name and everyone is up in arms about it, or he uses another name and everyone is up in arms about PC-gone-mad!
what do you do Peter, what do you do?
graememk - 25/11/07 at 01:20 PM
i dont see why it should be a problem as long as its not used as a racist insult
Macbeast - 25/11/07 at 02:10 PM
I think in the original film, the american version was redubbed to avoid the word - probably substituted Lassie or Pluto 
Come to think of it, I haven't seen nigger-brown shoe polish for yonks. Must put on my Robertsons' gollywog badge and go and ask for some
Silly isn't it ?
nitram38 - 25/11/07 at 02:27 PM
Like all of these "type" of words, normally the ones who feel insulted by them are the ones that give these names, their power over people.
donut - 25/11/07 at 02:36 PM
Use it and shove a note up on the screen saying that the film is true to historic documentation.........which will be hard for the Americans.
Not sure how well they are going to replicate a whole squadren of Lancs when there are only 2 flying in the world.
Should be good though. I wish they would remake The Battle of Britain.
[Edited on 25/11/07 by donut]
spaximus - 25/11/07 at 02:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by donut
Use it and shove a note up on the screen saying that the film is true to historic documentation.........which will be hard for the Americans.
Not sure how well they are going to replicate a whole squadren of Lancs when there are only 2 flying in the world.
Should be good though. I wish they would remake The Battle of Britain.
[Edited on 25/11/07 by donut]
They should use the name, in the context it was not racist, it was from a different era.
The people who will get upset are those who have one mission in life and that is to wee right minded people off.
As for the Lancasters. CGI will be used and you will belive they are real, just look at the recent pearl harbour film to see the results.
RazMan - 25/11/07 at 03:12 PM
A lot of words have lost their original meanings as we evolve. The word 'gay' used to mean something completely different only a few years
ago (relatively speaking)
Use the real name - if anyone is offended then they obviously misunderstand the context which is simply down to their own education.
David Jenkins - 25/11/07 at 03:18 PM
Trouble is, in those days (1940s) people were appallingly racist - black/brown people were 'inferior' according to the general view. So
'nigger' probably was a racially insensitive name for a black dog. I don't think it was any different in the USA at that time.
As for the film, I think that they should use the name if they have to - but it would be better if they could 'write around' it, if they
could. It's just too sensitive nowadays.
Purely IMHO, of course...
Humbug - 25/11/07 at 03:26 PM
On the one hand, if that was the dog's name, use it.
On the other hand, the story is not about the dog, so it is probably less hassle to use something else, say Digger or Tigger... then, he can get loads
of publicity for the film because he is being "sensitive to feelings"/"over-PC" (delete as appropriate) without actually using the
"offensive" word.
theconrodkid - 25/11/07 at 04:35 PM
it,s part of history,it happened and nothing you can do or say can change it,next thing will be ww2 never happened and we have always lived in a
loving fluffy world,ask school kids these days,i work with some 18/19 year olds,they know nothing about that part of history
omega 24 v6 - 25/11/07 at 05:02 PM
USE IT FFS.
It was his dog and he loved it and it loved him where is the problem (I know I know) but in this context it's not being used offensively. Anyone
not happy can opt not to watch.
caber - 25/11/07 at 06:27 PM
Why the hell remake this movie? The original is brilliant and features real people flying real planes. Any remake is bound to be full of CGI planes
and flying, if it is going to sell in the USA it will need some American stars playing leading roles and probably an American squadron of b29s rather
than Lancasters anyway!
Caber
spaximus - 25/11/07 at 06:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by caber
Why the hell remake this movie? The original is brilliant and features real people flying real planes. Any remake is bound to be full of CGI planes
and flying, if it is going to sell in the USA it will need some American stars playing leading roles and probably an American squadron of b29s rather
than Lancasters anyway!
Caber
I think Peter Jackson will make a good job of it really. Yes CGI will feature but the story is real. I love the old film with all it's
atmospheric details. If you go upto derwent water, just above Ladybower . it makes you realsie how much skill was involved in just flying the planes
there without the ack ack.
BenB - 25/11/07 at 09:31 PM
Why does the dog's name have to be mentioned? It's not as if the flipping dog played a central part in the mission!!! IIRC most black
labradors in the 30s / 40s were called that name....
JoelP - 25/11/07 at 09:51 PM
i think people try to find excuses to use the 'nigger' word to stick a finger up at the PC brigade, however, so many people are offended by
the word i would definately not use it. Its just disrespectful to try to find reasons to use it. If his dog had been called pansy no one would even
know, and i doubt you'd hear it mentioned in the movie. Its because it was called nigger that its even an issue. Im pretty much totally against
PC, however, theres no need to offend people for the sake of it. (though you could say pansy would offend the gay audience! 
)
[Edited on 25/11/07 by JoelP]
locogeoff - 25/11/07 at 10:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by caber
Why the hell remake this movie? The original is brilliant and features real people flying real planes. Any remake is bound to be full of CGI planes
and flying, if it is going to sell in the USA it will need some American stars playing leading roles and probably an American squadron of b29s rather
than Lancasters anyway!
Caber
When I heard about the remake I had exactly the same reation, Why?
I have heard that because of the 50 year thing more information is in the publc domain and makes the story even more interesting.
I also think Peter Jackson will make a good job of it, as with LOTR he's passionate about the subject. But he's going to have to make a good
job of it to compare with the original.
Favorite Line:
Arrogant Air Ministry fanny to Barnes Wallis “Give me one good reason why the Air Ministry would lend you a Wellington for the day”
Barnes Wallis replies in a meek inquisitive tone “Tell them I designed it”
Oh aye, the dogs name was Nigger, whilst I totally disagree with changing it, they could change it to Digger if it stop sthe PC briggade whinning on
[Edited on 25/11/07 by locogeoff]
Mansfield - 25/11/07 at 10:34 PM
I agree with David Jenkins and JoelP, we live in a differenet world now and anything that can help us get along is a GOOD thing.
davie h - 25/11/07 at 10:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by graememk
i dont see why it should be a problem as long as its not used as a racist insult
but this is the same world where we are no longer allowed to say black board or baa baa black sheep (which has now been replaced with baa baa fluffy
sheep) just incase someone finds it offensive. were not even allowed to say manhole ( the drain cover in the road before anyone gets smart) incase it
upsets women or anyone who else. the list of words you cant say goes on and on and there will always be someone who is offended. but how anyone can
find black board, manhole etc offensive is beyond me
[Edited on 25/11/07 by davie h]
MikeRJ - 25/11/07 at 11:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
use it. the dog played an important part in history, and that was his name.
i think most people will be offended, just because they want to be.
That is the bottom line. I swear some people actualy ENJOY being offended, and will look for any excuse to get attention.
Whilst offending people just for the sake of it is not really acceptable, treading on eggshells so these PC morons don't start mouthing off is
simply exacerbating the the whole ridiculous situation.
The dogs name was Nigger and his name was used as a codeword, those facts are inescapable. Whilst Hollywood generally likes to avoid any kind of
historical accuracy, it would be nice to see them get this one right.
blakep82 - 25/11/07 at 11:20 PM
^ bah, spent most of today trying to find it and i can't...
remember seeing a story somewhere about a black couple in new york, were sueing a furniture company because the brown leather sofa they ordered was
called "nigger"
they then expalined how offended they were, and how hurt they were as their 4 year old daughter didn't understand and they had to explain to her
what it meant and why it was offensive.
NO THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT! she could have lived quite happily for years without knowing.
If i bought a sofa called (i can't think of what would be offensive to white people, so i'll go for something else) If i bought a sofa
called 'wanker' i'd find it hilarious! I'd take a picture and show everyone!
i was in a turkish shop a few years back, found a packet of chocolate biscuits called 'Negro' took a picture and sent it to my friend
who's black. he laughed for weeks about it!
blakep82 - 26/11/07 at 08:20 AM
here it is! someone else found it for me
http://www.racewire.org/archives/2007/04/niggerbrown_couch_packaged_and.html
Macbeast - 26/11/07 at 08:37 AM
One of the subsequent comments from a black person- love it
" How much dem couches cost?
Posted by: Lamont Washington | April 20, 2007 08:05 PM "
[Edited on 26/11/07 by Macbeast]
DarrenW - 26/11/07 at 12:05 PM
I hope the Lancaster bomber was made in Lancaster otherwise the wise EU oficials may make them change the name of that too.
If the dog was part of the story then i dont see an ssue in them using the name. It is the name of a dog after all. Maybe they should use a black AND
white dog though.
omega 24 v6 - 26/11/07 at 12:40 PM
quote:
Maybe they should use a black AND white dog though.
Now that's just being stupid as it was a labrador and not a collie
Just stick to the facts the dogs name was Nigger the code word was Nigger it's historical fact FFS. Ok let me put it another way.
In 2007 the fia saw fit to fine and ban McLaren from the F1 world championship is that a Fact or just something made up so as not to hurt the feelings
of motorsports red Brigade
scotty g - 26/11/07 at 03:44 PM
I think they should use the dogs name and i would imagine that Peter Jackson would want it in as he always pays close attention to details.
i did read as well that they were having some full size fully working Lancaster replicas built for the filming!
The budget for the film is somewhere around the 100 million mark.