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biofuel mixed in petrol
blakep82 - 15/4/08 at 12:21 PM

don't know if this has been covered on here yet,

apparently according to the TV (bbc news) from today, 2.5% of petrol we buy is biofuel.

does this have any adverse effects on the engine? poor performance, faster wear etc?

i seem to remember a car on top gear and jeremy clarkson saying it was something like 800bhp, but on biofuel you can get 1000bhp or something.

is there a benefit (except the usual envionmental stuff)?

Mr Whippy - 15/4/08 at 12:26 PM

I was under the impression that bio fuel was diesel?

I've heard that alcohol is sometimes blended in with petrol but don't know the details. Has Clarkson worked out where the cars engine is yet?

Humbug - 15/4/08 at 12:29 PM

My understanding was that 2.5% of the total sold should be biofuel, not that every pump should dispense a 2.5% blend

britishtrident - 15/4/08 at 12:35 PM

Ethanol added to petrol, some advantages some disadvantages.
It won't normally give any more power.

Not a new idea way back in the late 1930s 100 Octane Cleveland Discol the Alcohol Fuel was sold. Discol contaned about 2.5% to 5% Ethanol eventually disapeared around 1972 when Esso pulled the plug on it although it had probably had no alcohol in it and was just rebranded "Esso Extra"from the mid 1960s when Esso took over.

smart51 - 15/4/08 at 12:42 PM

quote:
All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at least 2.5% biofuels
Link to BBC story

The fuel still has to meet the British Standard for unleadded petrol. It still has to be 95 RON or higher. Petrol is blended anyway, my guess is that they'll blend it to take account of the bio-ethanol content so that it will stay much the same as it ever was. 2.5% isn't much so it won't have much effect. I believe that Brazil's cars run on E85 without too many problems.

DaveFJ - 15/4/08 at 12:47 PM

However there is no true environmental benefit - in fact quite the opposite is argued by some because of deforestation and mono culture crops damaging the environment.....

It's got more to do with dwindling oil reserves....

speedyxjs - 15/4/08 at 12:52 PM

The way i understood it is that you cant run a standard car on much more than 15% biofuel. Thats why ford and volvo produced cars that ran on 85%biofuel in the hope that is the way we are going

speedyxjs - 15/4/08 at 12:54 PM

...oh and britishtrident, you may want to make your avatar a bit smaller

carlknight1982 - 15/4/08 at 12:58 PM

i work for a large generator company and we have some genset (using 12 and 14 litre engines) that are running on B100 bio fuel 100% bio fuel no diesel at all, its crap true there is no loss of power but the injector nozzles get deposits on them then over time (3-4 months of constant use) the injectors can no longer atomise the fuel and it drips into the cylinders down the bores past the rings and into the sump where it reacts with the engine oil and turns to Tar, destroying the big ends and rendering the engine basically siezed and useless, be very very wary of Bio fuels.
Ive spent 6 months looking for ways to stop this and so far nothing new.

[Edited on 15/4/08 by carlknight1982]

MikeR - 15/4/08 at 01:05 PM

Isn't this just a case of the diesel biofuel stripping the tar deposits from the derv oil tanks (hence why you should change the oil filter a couple of times when you change over on a car).

carlknight1982 - 15/4/08 at 01:12 PM

not in this case, the genset run on external tanks that have never had Diesel in them, i even changed all the fuel lines on 2 machines prior to the bio fuel usage as to eliminate the tar problem

once of the machines was brand new, it now sits in my work bay waiting for the crank to come back from being reground.

smart51 - 15/4/08 at 01:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
However there is no true environmental benefit - in fact quite the opposite is argued by some because of deforestation and mono culture crops damaging the environment.....

It's got more to do with dwindling oil reserves....


Not so. Or at least, not so simple.

It takes energy to turn plants into petrol, but then it takes energy to turn geology into petrol too. IF it takes more to make biopetrol then SOME of the benefit will be lost.

If you deforrest the amazon to make way for biofuel crops then you may do more harm than good. If you replant third world food fields to grow biofuel crops then you'll do more harm than good.
If you replant subsidised unused european fields to grow biofuel then you'll be doing a lot of good. You might even reduce the dependance of farmers on subsidies. Where you source your biofuel crops is a matter of capitalism vs ethics. Do you pay a bit more to avoid starving millions of people?

To say that bio fuels ARE worse than mineral fuels for the quoted reasons is a bit, well, ignorant.

procomp - 15/4/08 at 02:31 PM

Hi the way it was told to me by a BIO fule expert. Was that the total turn over of fuel by the fuel companies had to be 2.5% this year And then 5% next year and 7.5% the following year and so on. I think the news have it a bit out of context. They are not putting 2.5% in with the standard fuel we use. But BIO fuel at 85/15 % mix will be on offer. Ie as Morrison's and TESCO already have done.

Also just as a bit of info I will be racing the first BIO fueled race car to run in a championship in the UK At cadwell in 4 weeks time in the locost championship.

There will be eventually two cars with the other one being done by coventry university. I know that Aston martin and some others have raced using it but where not under regulations Ie given dispensation to run. What we are running is a fuel that has been homologated by the MSA. And supplied by TESCO.

Just hope i get club card point for using it.

Cheers Matt

paulf - 15/4/08 at 02:36 PM

I remember somthing a long time back about fuel containg a percentage of bio fuel paid a reduced tax rate.It was one of those budget announcements that never seemed to happen, maybe they will cut the price now to go with the 2.5 % bio fuel.Of course it may be that fuel consumption will increase as ethanol requires a richer mixture so the cars engine management will richen it up and we end up paying more stealth fuel tax yet again.
Paul

wilkingj - 15/4/08 at 03:01 PM

The Solution to ALL of these issues, is Simple.

CULL Half the worlds population.

There are just TOO Many People.
Namely there is a Plague of People upon the land.

I don't mean there are too many of X or Y culture / country. I mean just too many people FULL STOP.

In the last 50 years its gone from 4Bn to 6Bn people. Its a growing problem.



EDIT:

PS... Dont confuse Bio Diesel with Bio Petrol, as they are different fuels.



[Edited on 15/4/2008 by wilkingj]

blakep82 - 15/4/08 at 03:05 PM

so my local tesco should have biofuels on the pumps now? might give it a shot then if i'm not going to end up with a broken engine...

procomp - 15/4/08 at 03:09 PM

Hi not sure as to how many sites will have BIO fuel E85. Maybe a bit like Morrisons who have only 8 sites selling it in the UK.

Cheers Matt

blakep82 - 15/4/08 at 04:10 PM

neither morrisons or tesco have it in greenock. wonder if it'll be any cheaper (doubt it )

speedyxjs - 15/4/08 at 04:11 PM

There was a guy in the jag club that tried the 99 octane tesco fuel which i understand is high in biofuel and he had some pretty bad engine problems.

paulf - 15/4/08 at 05:14 PM

Morrisons sell E85 near me but it is nearly the same price and does something like 25% less mileage, it can also only be used in cars set up for it or in flex fuel cars that have a special sensor that adjusts the Lambda value to compensate for the different fuel.
Paul

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
neither morrisons or tesco have it in greenock. wonder if it'll be any cheaper (doubt it )

DorsetStrider - 15/4/08 at 06:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
The Solution to ALL of these issues, is Simple.

CULL Half the worlds population.

There are just TOO Many People.
Namely there is a Plague of People upon the land.

I don't mean there are too many of X or Y culture / country. I mean just too many people FULL STOP.

In the last 50 years its gone from 4Bn to 6Bn people. Its a growing problem.



EDIT:

PS... Dont confuse Bio Diesel with Bio Petrol, as they are different fuels.



[Edited on 15/4/2008 by wilkingj]


Is there a way of turning people into fuel?

Can I nominate graham norton for the first set of culls?

carpmart - 15/4/08 at 08:32 PM

I seem to recall that there was a Walkers Workshop piece in PPC mag a few issues back and the Walker had a bio fuel car on his rollers and mapped it very satisfactorily.

Again, from memory, are the characteristics of bio fuel and particularly high octane rating? If yes, they would work well with high compression engines or forced induction!