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Fuel Duty petition response

mookaloid - 2/5/08 at 03:08 PM

Just got this in my inbox

The Government's policy is that fuel duty rates should rise each year at least in line with inflation. This supports the Government's effort to reduce polluting emissions and assists with the funding of public services. In the Chancellor's 2008 Budget fuel duty rates were announced for future years, through to 2010-11. These increases are expected to result in carbon savings of 0.5 million tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) a year by 2010-11.

However, in the 2008 Budget the Chancellor also announced that the planned duty increase would be deferred for six months until October. The Government believes that this decision shows that it be responsive to short-term economic conditions.

Even after these changes duty rates in 2009 will still be 11% lower, in real terms (i.e. by making an appropriate adjustment to discount for inflation), than they were in 1999 - equivalent to a 7 pence per litre real reduction - and at the time of the Budget the real cost of motoring was still 13% lower than in 1999.

It remains the case that the retail price of fuel at the pump is ultimately a matter for retailers and their suppliers, and fuel duty is just one of a range of factors which determine the price paid by the motorist.

Roughly translated as what a waste of time this petition is - we are going to carry on putting the price up anyway!

Mr Whippy - 2/5/08 at 03:18 PM

I have noticed a huge increase in the number of motorbikes on the road this year. One of the guys in here is a part time bike instructor and he says the same thing.

It'll end up like the far east, bikes everywhere.

Wadders - 2/5/08 at 03:20 PM

Filled my van up today, Ł91.00 the most its ever cost me
wont be long before we all drive smart cars.

Al.

Originally posted by mookaloid
Just got this in my inbox

The Government's policy is that fuel duty rates should rise each year at least in line with inflation. This supports the Government's effort to reduce polluting emissions and assists with the funding of public services. In the Chancellor's 2008 Budget fuel duty rates were announced for future years, through to 2010-11. These increases are expected to result in carbon savings of 0.5 million tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) a year by 2010-11.

However, in the 2008 Budget the Chancellor also announced that the planned duty increase would be deferred for six months until October. The Government believes that this decision shows that it be responsive to short-term economic conditions.

Even after these changes duty rates in 2009 will still be 11% lower, in real terms (i.e. by making an appropriate adjustment to discount for inflation), than they were in 1999 - equivalent to a 7 pence per litre real reduction - and at the time of the Budget the real cost of motoring was still 13% lower than in 1999.

It remains the case that the retail price of fuel at the pump is ultimately a matter for retailers and their suppliers, and fuel duty is just one of a range of factors which determine the price paid by the motorist.

Roughly translated as what a waste of time this petition is - we are going to carry on putting the price up anyway!

charlierevell - 2/5/08 at 03:30 PM

My Ł55 fill up is now nearly Ł70!!
Im sooo glad im not paying for the fuel and really feel for the guys who just chucked their fuel cards in to 'save money' by claiming it back and not having benefit in kind!

paulf - 2/5/08 at 03:34 PM

How do they work that one out then? back then i could afford to fill my car and still buy food etc, but now I have to budget for both.
All these online petitions are a waste of time as they are just on a hard drive and conveniently dissapear at the touch of a button.
We should go back to the old method and turn up at no10 with a lorry load of paper work for them to dispose of, hopefully they would have to pay to get rid of it like they would like the rest of us to do with our domestic rubbish if they had there way.
Paul

quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
Even after these changes duty rates in 2009 will still be 11% lower, in real terms (i.e. by making an appropriate adjustment to discount for inflation), than they were in 1999 - equivalent to a 7 pence per litre real reduction - and at the time of the Budget the real cost of motoring was still 13% lower than in 1999.

It remains the case that the retail price of fuel at the pump is ultimately a matter for retailers and their suppliers, and fuel duty is just one of a range of factors which determine the price paid by the motorist.

Roughly translated as what a waste of time this petition is - we are going to carry on putting the price up anyway!

[Edited on 2/5/08 by paulf]

matt_claydon - 2/5/08 at 03:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by paulf
How do they work that one out then? back then i could afford to fill my car and still buy food etc, but now I have to budget for both.

Because most of the rise in fuel prices in recent years has been due to oil price increases, not tax. If the level of duty rises with inflation then in real terms it stays about the same.

Not that I don't think fuel is ridiculously expensive though!

In some ways the high tax has done us a favour. In the US, gasoline prices have roughly tripled in the time ours have gone from 70p to Ł1, causing major hardship for a lot of people. This is because their pump price is mostly the oil cost, with only a small tax proportion. We still pay more than double what they do, but we are used to it so it doesn't hit as hard.

[Edited on 2/5/08 by matt_claydon]

Wadders - 2/5/08 at 03:46 PM
A friend has just sent me this email, interesting idea.

We are hitting Ł108.9 a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced with paying Ł1.10 a ltr. Philip Hollsworth offered this good idea:

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't
continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT,whoever
thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.

Please read it and join in!

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the market place
not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not
purchasing their Petrol! And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP.

If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's really simple to do!!

Now, don't wimp out at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the
message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited and
pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it... ..

THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP) How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt,
all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8days!!! Acting together we can make a difference . If this makes
sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE RANGE

It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol at Shell, Asda,Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP and Esso

Jasper - 2/5/08 at 03:50 PM
This has been suggested before and definitely makes more sense, it's just getting people to stick to it.

Easy for me, tesco's two mintues down the road with the cheapest fuel .....

paulf - 2/5/08 at 03:58 PM
The trouble is it would only make a couple of pence a litre difference, those that say its the fuel suppliers cashing in are missing the point.Garages make 1 or 2 p a litre on fuel the government makes 80p a litre and gets more every time the actual fuel cost goes up.
Paul.

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
This has been suggested before and definitely makes more sense, it's just getting people to stick to it.

Easy for me, tesco's two mintues down the road with the cheapest fuel .....

Wadders - 2/5/08 at 04:14 PM
Some bloke on the radio this week made a good point regarding profiteering by the fuel companies

By pointing out that the duty on both petrol and diesel is the same,

Diesel costs less to produce than petrol as its cracked lower down the chain,

Yet they charge us more for it !!!

Esso and BP announced joint profits of nearly 8 billion for the first quarter.

Al.

Originally posted by paulf
The trouble is it would only make a couple of pence a litre difference, those that say its the fuel suppliers cashing in are missing the point.Garages make 1 or 2 p a litre on fuel the government makes 80p a litre and gets more every time the actual fuel cost goes up.
Paul.

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
This has been suggested before and definitely makes more sense, it's just getting people to stick to it.

Easy for me, tesco's two mintues down the road with the cheapest fuel .....

BenB - 2/5/08 at 04:25 PM
There is an easy way to get at Esso and BP etc..

They say that the minimum fill-up is what 2L so about Ł2.50.

Due to the costs involved in credit cards transactions etc the petrol stations only break even cost-wise at Ł15. If you go into a filling station and fill up with Ł10 of petrol they actually make a loss at the station...

So I'm filling up with Ł10 of fuel every day

Of couse the real rip-off is the VAT thing. The government says "in real terms" they're not responsible for increasing fuel prices because the main increase has been the price of crude.
However, they add 17.5% onto the price of petrol which clearly increases with the price of crude. So if crude goes up, they could (theoretically) decrease the duty and still screw the same amount of money out of the motorist. Of course they keep quite about this..... But then it's the usual politician's dream- a way of screwing over the general public whilst sufficiently distancing them from any decisions or events for deniability...

smart51 - 2/5/08 at 04:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders the duty on both petrol and diesel is the same

I thought that the duty on diesel was higher, reflecting the higher carbon content diesel has per litre.

dubstar_04 - 2/5/08 at 05:05 PM
I don't mind the rising fuel charges, and road tax charges, not when there are massive pot holes and bumpy roads for me to enjoy!!

Ha ha ....

carlknight1982 - 2/5/08 at 05:06 PM
i just filled up with diesel on the m25 no regular so had super @ Ł1.25 a litre!

Paul TigerB6 - 2/5/08 at 05:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
In some ways the high tax has done us a favour. In the US, gasoline prices have roughly tripled in the time ours have gone from 70p to Ł1, causing major hardship for a lot of people. This is because their pump price is mostly the oil cost, with only a small tax proportion. We still pay more than double what they do, but we are used to it so it doesn't hit as hard.

Hmmmmm - i'll have to remember to thank the government next time for the years and years of extortionate taxation on fuel that means we are used to being ripped off.

Macbeast - 2/5/08 at 05:54 PM
The guy's maths do not err.... compute. He's taken no account of duplicate contacts

balidey - 2/5/08 at 07:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
The Government's policy is that fuel duty rates should rise each year at least in line with inflation. This supports the Government's effort to reduce polluting emissions

But this is being pushed on us time and time again. Its all being promoted as a green tax, but its not. Rising tax rates does NOT make less people drive, it just makes the same amount of people pay more for the same amount of fuel.
Same with congestion charges. The streets of london are empty now. No hang on, theres NO reduction in the traffic in london, its the same amount, but people are being forced to pay.

How about I come round everyones house, steal their money. This means you can't afford to pay for petrol, therefore its environmentally friendly.

Bloody idiots running (or trying to) this country.

jacko - 2/5/08 at 07:05 PM
Were i work the fuel bill has gone up Ł40.000 a week more then this time last year
no pay rise for me this year

02GF74 - 2/5/08 at 07:55 PM
I would quite happily pay Ł 10 per litre.

Gord Brown is brillo and we all should help finance unnecessary wars, pay to enforce anti-terror laws and luxury apartment prisons.

focijohn - 2/5/08 at 07:59 PM
just to please everyone, if i glanced right diesel by me has now hit Ł1.25

andyps - 2/5/08 at 08:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
There is an easy way to get at Esso and BP etc..

They say that the minimum fill-up is what 2L so about Ł2.50.

Due to the costs involved in credit cards transactions etc the petrol stations only break even cost-wise at Ł15. If you go into a filling station and fill up with Ł10 of petrol they actually make a loss at the station...

So I'm filling up with Ł10 of fuel every day

Trouble is, that won't be hitting Esso or BP, it will hit the retailer who is making about 5p per litre if he is lucky. If you then force high credit card charges on them you might well find you have to travel further to buy fuel soon....

quote:
Originally posted by BenBOf couse the real rip-off is the VAT thing. The government says "in real terms" they're not responsible for increasing fuel prices because the main increase has been the price of crude.
However, they add 17.5% onto the price of petrol which clearly increases with the price of crude. So if crude goes up, they could (theoretically) decrease the duty and still screw the same amount of money out of the motorist. Of course they keep quite about this..... But then it's the usual politician's dream- a way of screwing over the general public whilst sufficiently distancing them from any decisions or events for deniability...

The politicians who seem to neatly forget that one of the reasons for the price of oil increasing is the unrest in the middle east which may be something to do with an invasion of a certain country by a couple of western governments. So not only do they benefit from the increases in VAT, they are partly responsible for the creation of the higher levels to start with.

Add in the extra money the government is getting from North sea oil (they were losing Ł20m per day whilst the pipeline to the refinery was closed last weekend) and you wonder how bad the UK economy would be if it wasn't for all this tax they are getting.

andyps - 2/5/08 at 09:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by smart51

quote:
Originally posted by Wadders the duty on both petrol and diesel is the same

I thought that the duty on diesel was higher, reflecting the higher carbon content diesel has per litre.

I think it is slightly higher, but the main difference comes from the levels of demand. Demand for diesel is increasing and particularly during the winter the supply is not high enough due to the demand for heating oil which is similar to Diesel. Petrol is less affected by this seasonal demand.

[Edited on 2/5/08 by andyps]

Schrodinger - 2/5/08 at 11:14 PM
I think you will find that the majority of profits for the oil companies comes from the "other" uses of oil such as plastics and the like. Petrol is a small element of oil use but it does seem to get hit hard when oil prices increase.

D Beddows - 3/5/08 at 12:31 AM
what always annoys me is the way major oil companies astonishing annual increase in profits is always attributed to the increased price of crude oil... so how does that work then if we're not being ripped off somewhere ???

On a slightly different issue does anyone really think if we voted the Conservatives back into government it would actually be any better ? GO BORIS however

[Edited on 3/5/08 by D Beddows]

andyps - 3/5/08 at 07:11 PM
The main activity of oil companies such as Shell and BP is oil exploration, extraction and refining. The retailing of petrol is quite a small part of their overall operation. The cost of exploration, extraction and refining has not changed much over the last year, but the price of crude oil has increased massively, mainly because it is controlled by a cartel who are limiting supply at a time demand is increasing. Therefore the crude oil shell etc. get from the earth is worth more, they sell it at a higher price and make more profit.

Over time though, the cost of exploration and extraction is increasing as the new places oil is found in are more remote and have less oil in than places like the fields in the middle East which are easy to access and have very large reserves. This means the costs relative to income will increase and this will affect the cost of crude oil.