Knife crime ?
Jon Ison - 29/5/08 at 07:11 PM
People are racking their brains as to how to stem this crimewave . There's a new government advert aimed at shocking people to stop carrying
blades ; the mother of a victim suggests perpitrators will laugh at it .
I would be surprised if there weren't 'carriers' on here .
Why do you do it ? Is it for bravado/protection etc .
What will make the carriers stop ? Perhaps if the campaign starts to actually belittle those that 'carry' and make them out to be the
cowards that they are , would that work ?
'IF YOU CARRY - YOU'RE A COWARD' a slogan like that ? What do you lot reckon ?
JoelP - 29/5/08 at 07:25 PM
Its the wicked mind thats the problem, not the knife. Why do street kids seem obsessed with being top dog, and why does violence seem so acceptable to
them?
andyd - 29/5/08 at 07:27 PM
A lot of people "carry" due to being scared about those that "carry"!
It's a circle... but breaking it will be difficult. It's like software piracy. People say the price of software is too high and that's
why I pirate it because I can't afford it. Even if software was 0.01p per item there would still be people that wouldn't want to pay. Same
with knives, even if there were no danger of wellbeing, some people will continue to carry them because they can get away with it.
I don't think trying to belittle people will work either. It's all about respect for others and sadly those that carry weapons with intent
to use them have no respect.
It's a real sad situation when in a martial arts class we as instructors have to point out that knives etc are a very real threat to the kids we
teach and they need to be aware of it and not nieve. A shame that my 10yr old daughter is even aware of such things. I know when I was 10 I
didn't have to be scared of other kids walking in the streets. Signs of the times. 
Still not sure what the answer is though. You can't *make* people respect others.
Simon - 29/5/08 at 07:29 PM
I think it's done out of cowardice!.
Posters will not fix it, nor will asbo's. Stringing offenders up in the street and giving them a good public lashing may make them think
twice.
If they use a knife for the wrong reasons, the string can have a noose on the end of it!
ATB
Simon
StevieB - 29/5/08 at 07:35 PM
Contrary to what the media hype suggests, knife crime isn't actually on the increase, it's actually been at a steady norm for many years.
Violent crime on the whole has fallen, and therefore knife crime makes up a higher percentage - and the media like to jump on things without
explaining that.
The frightening thing, though, is that those who are perpetrating violent crimes in general are getting younger. The problem with youth is that
there's no perception of the gravity of the situation you can very easily get yourself into.
The other point to note is that most knife crimes aren't comitted using the horrendous bits of kit you see on the news (the serated things with
knuckle dusters on them etc. - the one's that make you sick to the stomach at the thought of). A very large percentage of the crimes are
comitted with the common or garden kitchen knives, which any 16 year old who feels threatened or is looking for respect from their peers can grab from
any kithen.
Bitten hero - 29/5/08 at 07:42 PM
The only way of deterring this is PUNISHMENT-ie caught with a blade 5 years no remission- murder -death - straight out side and hung... end .
Liam - 29/5/08 at 07:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by andydYou can't *make* people respect others.
Well you kind of can - it's called bringing up children properly. It's complete failure to do that that is the root cause of this kind of
problem in society, imho.
Liam
JoelP - 29/5/08 at 08:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
quote:
Originally posted by andydYou can't *make* people respect others.
Well you kind of can - it's called bringing up children properly. It's complete failure to do that that is the root cause of this kind of
problem in society, imho.
Liam
completely agree, but the million dollar question is how on earth do we remedy the situation? Chavs bring up more chavs.
It would require a combination of education, proper law and order, and even the dreaded parenting license. 
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people are to blame, but no one wants to put their hand up and admit they have brought up a bad kid. Plus
its not a black and white thing, its not as simple as some people are as nice as pie and some are absolute bastards. Many people have quite nasty
characteristics that they dont realise are bad, and certainly dont count themselves as part of the problem that britain faces. For instance, people
who think its ok to get women drunk to get laid, or people who think stealing from a big company isnt theft. Or people who think its ok to be rude to
someone if you feel they have been rude to you. And a million other shades of grey. And we're all guilty of it. I swiped a quid from down the
back of someones kitchen unit today! 
I also hung up on someone in customer care because its was the 10th call id recieved before lunch. I also
called a kid a w****** for riding his bike wildly across busy traffic.
I also got beeped when i cut someone up, but thats ok because they were going too slow, and in the wrong lane, so bollox to them.
Am i part of the problem? Im as nice as pie to people i like.
rusty nuts - 29/5/08 at 08:27 PM
Its about time we said to the "Do Gooders" we have done things your way its not working. Bring back corporal punishment AND capital
punishment . The stocks wouldn't go amiss either. Can't say I knew anyone who carried a knife when I was a teenager
andyd - 29/5/08 at 08:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
quote:
Originally posted by andydYou can't *make* people respect others.
Well you kind of can - it's called bringing up children properly. It's complete failure to do that that is the root cause of this kind of
problem in society, imho.
Liam
I agree. What I really meant was those twats (and I use the word with all the venom and intent it was design for) who think it's "cool"
or "hard" to carry offensive weapons.
Also agree with you Joel... there's too much conflict and confrontation with folks these days. People walk about scowling at everyone as opposed
to smiling and saying "good morning" etc. And this type of anti-social behaviour does start at home. If parents rant and eff and blind in
front of their kids then those kids will do the same... monkey see, monkey do. I'm not saying that all "bad" parents turn their kids
into killing machines but respect does start at home.
It's not "correct" these days to smack children for doing wrong and I know that sounds like a total contradiction to what I just put
i.e. if you smack them then they'll smack others... but my parents smacked me as a kid... I don't go around wanting to smack other people on
purpose.... only when they deserve it! 
andyd - 29/5/08 at 08:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Its about time we said to the "Do Gooders" we have done things your way its not working. Bring back corporal punishment AND capital
punishment . The stocks wouldn't go amiss either. Can't say I knew anyone who carried a knife when I was a teenager
I like the stocks idea alot! Does that make me an anti-social person?
When I kept hearing about "knife crime" and "it's all young kids" on the radio today I thought about how to get through to
school kids how bad knives used wrongly can be.
I think the police (or some other local authority etc) should take a side of beef around schools and show what a sharp knife does to flesh. It's
no use just showing people's scars etc on posters... they don't put the two things together well IMHO. Showing how a knife just opens up the
flesh and let their imagination fill in the blood and pain would get more of a message home.
And this comes from someone who owns a Katana sword... but I'd never dream of taking it out with me to "defend" myself! I have hands
and feet capable of doing that anyway. 1st Degree Blackbelt in Freestyle karate. 
[Edited on 29/5/2008 by andyd]
omega 24 v6 - 29/5/08 at 08:56 PM
Used to carry untill about 3 years ago. Never for reasons of violence mind but work related. I'd Imagine most farmer types still carry as well
(work related again). It's not so much the carrying that's the problem if it wasn't knives it'd be bats or suchlike. The whole
problem is society we've created a culture where you don't want to get "involved" where everything unacceptable is allowed to
happen because of this. Doo gooders are in abundance and cannot see the bad in people FFS they actually stick up for them.
Bring back the days when boy scouts could walk about on bob a job week with a 6inch long sheath knife strapped to their belt and nobody and Bobbies
cuffed your lug for misdemeanours. If not we're heading for mob rule and vigilanty have a go heroes.
coozer - 29/5/08 at 09:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bitten hero
The only way of deterring this is PUNISHMENT-ie caught with a blade 5 years no remission- murder -death - straight out side and hung... end .
Well, how about biting back? Double barrel 12 gauge should do the trick. Worked in the east end during the 60's.
The average man in this country puts up with too much, time to riot me thinks. Either the kids will get you or Mr. G brown will starve you to death.
FIGHT BACK, SUPPORT THE TRUCKERS ACTION!!!
[Edited on 29/5/08 by coozer]
DIY Si - 29/5/08 at 09:25 PM
Whilst I'm probably a fair bit younger than some on here, and a wee bit older than a couple of folk, I used to carry a knife after school as a
kid. One of the small to middle size Opinel knives. I also tended to come home after school, put my combats on, pick up my webbing and/or backpack and
naff off over the fields with my mates. At any one time we would all have at least 1 knife on us, I used to carry an axe with a 3ft handle, a mate had
a wood saw that had the back side sharpened to save carrying something for chopping undergrowth down. All these things were deemed perfectly ok, my
parents knew as did most of the people I knew. This, I would imagine is part of living in the countryside. Do this in central London and the police
would go mental. I wouldn't say I will never carry a knife again, but when I work in central Coventry, there are a few places where being
6'3" and of a reasonable build does help your confidence a bit. As does carrying a tool box. The problem is that this shouldn't be the
case. You should be able to feel perfectly safe at any time of day where ever you are. Proper respect for others and other people belongings would go
a very long way to stopping this. It might be that I'm used to living in little villages where everyone knows everyone else, but going into towns
and cities everyone has a face like a spanked arse. No-one EVER smiles, no-one EVER looks anything other than disappointed with their lot in life and
no-one ever says anything to other people unless they're in their way, and even then, it's generally not hello. Assuming they are even
speaking in English. But that's another rant altogether!
Edited to say, I'm sure I have my own faults. Equally I try to treat everyone the same. Apart from old people who drive Rover 25's. They are
always going to slowly and as such are in my way. I try not to swear.......
...too much.
[Edited on 29/5/08 by DIY Si]
Mr Whippy - 29/5/08 at 10:16 PM
We laughed when a friend bought an old London bus when they were being phased out and took it up to show us all. Could not believe the number of anti
knife posters in it and the number of cameras and CCTV monitor screens. Very odd indeed as most of the busses I drove had no bandit screens, cameras
or anything yet we felt perfectly safe. Then the new busses started to come up from down south (mostly Manchester) already fitted with screens and
cameras and we all hated it, in fact it felt much more dangerous being stuck in a little plastic cell, that’s when I left.
Neil P - 29/5/08 at 10:50 PM
quote:
Posters will not fix it, nor will asbo's. Stringing offenders up in the street and giving them a good public lashing may make them think twice.
If they use a knife for the wrong reasons, the string can have a noose on the end of it!
That's my kind of of politics, Simon! I consider myself to be fairly moderate.
I think there are more people agree with this view than the politicians would care to recognise.
These little sh!ts need to learn who's in charge. (the chavs not the politicians)
Neil
Simon - 30/5/08 at 12:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hicost
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTUr0yQJBOA
I suspected that might be Croc Dundee
I doubt that would work though, cos the following week they'd be back with a samurai sword or suchlike.
I'm fairly sure that custodial terms don't do anything, and neither do asbos.
Give a kid an asbo, he'll show it to his mates. Stick him in stocks for a week (no respite for food or loo), he will never, ever offend again.
Someone with a knife in public for obviously wrong reasons, a quick 50 lashes should disuade him and his mates. Then make him do some community
service, and welcome him back into society away from previous feral existence. Offend again, and god help you.
I don't believe for the most part that parenting is the cause.
I'm sure most of us were brought up properly, but how many tried to nick the odd sweet or tinny from a shop (I did and got caught - when I was
13, and I've never been so ashamed - still haven't told my parents - nearly 30 years later!). I knew it was wrong before I did it, but had
to try, just the once. Who knows, if I hadn't been caught, I might have tried it with something bigger, then the spiral would start.
That was nothing to do with my upbringing, I'm a sentient being and have the ability to make a choice - either right or wrong, good or bad, and
for the most part I've known the distinction since well before I tried nicking a tin or coke and I'm sure most kids do today.
ATB
Simon
worX - 30/5/08 at 05:31 AM
andyharding - 30/5/08 at 06:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bitten hero
The only way of deterring this is PUNISHMENT-ie caught with a blade 5 years no remission- murder -death - straight out side and hung... end .
What ever happened to intent? I carry a knife when hiking and would never dream of using it as a weapon. Should I get 5 years?
iank - 30/5/08 at 07:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by andyharding
quote:
Originally posted by Bitten hero
The only way of deterring this is PUNISHMENT-ie caught with a blade 5 years no remission- murder -death - straight out side and hung... end .
What ever happened to intent? I carry a knife when hiking and would never dream of using it as a weapon. Should I get 5 years?
Agreed, last time I went to B&Q to get some more bits for a job I was in the middle of, I found a stanley knife in my pocket when pulling out my
wallet. How long should I get for that?
The Crocodile Dundee thing doesn't work because of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8M6sRSTvCM
02GF74 - 30/5/08 at 03:00 PM
there is always this approach
RoadkillUK - 30/5/08 at 03:06 PM
I'm a believer of the stocks in the City Centre, outside the Town Hall. Stick the little scrotes in there and let the public see who's
responsible for what.
Also it's about time we emptied the prisons by deporting the foreign prisoners and employing the 'eye for an eye' tactic for
killers.
Just my thoughts, correct or not
Peteff - 30/5/08 at 04:17 PM
The problem is people. A 3" blade which does not lock is still legal to carry in UK and I always have a knife in my pocket for cutting stuff like
sticks and string. Amazingly the only person I've ever cut with it is myself I also have a set of knives which I use for my hobby which is
carving said sticks. Put Bobbies back on the street instead of in cars to discourage crime. We watched a youth on the street yesterday checking every
car he went past. He was wearing a hood, baseball cap and a face mask up to his eyes and if he wasn't up to anything he certainly drew attention
to himself. You would have sen more of him if he'd been wearing a Burkha.
You can stab someone fatally with a screwdriver, should we ban them, hysterical reaction is what the press thrives on.
[Edited on 30/5/08 by Peteff]