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green cars - ugly!!!
hellbent345 - 2/6/08 at 10:55 AM

i am completely for electric cars, fuel cell cars etc, even though the technology is still expensive i think its the way forward, and more people should buy them. howevers, the people that own companies that cell these fuel cell/electric cars seem to have not a jot of marketing sense or artistic zeal! look at these picture for an example of the heaps of poo they are trying to peddle! if they want electric/fuel cell etc. to appeal to the masses, theyve got to get them better looking than this!!









im actually really annoyed they arent making them prettier!!

bilbo - 2/6/08 at 11:05 AM

I totally agree. I've thought this for a long time.
Thankfully, there are always exceptions to a rule:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=90123

donut - 2/6/08 at 11:11 AM

There is a chap who is producing an electric version of the Haynes roadster for sprints and hillclimbs. Not long duration but bloody quick. i think the motor produces arround 500 flb of torque!!!




[Edited on 2/6/08 by donut]

smart51 - 2/6/08 at 11:26 AM

I guess the designers are experts in electronics but not car aesthetics. Who knows why they do it? Sure, metal bodied hatchbacks are just too heavy, we know that here on locostbuilders, but building a lightweight aerodynamic car to hold your electric motors doesn't mean your car has to be ugly.

vinny1275 - 2/6/08 at 12:18 PM

I was thinking this the other day. Electric cars are either a) tiny and ugly - a la G-Whiz, or a reasonably sized car, made of metal, and (heavily) filled with batteries and other gizmos (a la Toyota prius).

I also don't like the smug look people have driving them, especially the prius. Very few greens seem to realise that the damage you do to the environment in building a brand new car is way more than you can generate by driving a car, unless it does about 3 million miles (I'll have to try and figure that out accurately one day...)

What we need is a four door car, say about the size of a mondeo, at no more than half of the weight of a current mondeo. It needs to have a really low drag coefficient, and a very efficient petrol or diesel engine. If it has to lug around less weight, and less drag, you could probably push a mondy around decently with a 1.4 engine.....

Add in some extra batteries, kinetic energy recovery (regenerative braking) and small electric motors for queues, and you'd sell millions.

Oh yeh, and it needs to look nice.

iank - 2/6/08 at 12:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by vinny1275
.... If it has to lug around less weight, and less drag, you could probably push a mondy around decently with a 1.4 engine.....
...

I've read there was a proof of concept lightweight prototype Mondeo running a 1.25 litre Zetec SE.
No idea if it actually did more than rice pudding skin removal duties.

[Edited on 2/6/08 by iank]

David Jenkins - 2/6/08 at 12:27 PM

1.25cc - that's a small engine!

iank - 2/6/08 at 12:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
1.25cc - that's a small engine!



Ptttttttth now fixed.

DaveFJ - 2/6/08 at 12:34 PM

Link

Nuff said!

coozer - 2/6/08 at 12:41 PM

Tesla Roadster gets my vote as well. Good range, fast, very good looking but damned expensive and on the wrong side of the pond!

DaveFJ - 2/6/08 at 12:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by vinny1275
I was thinking this the other day. Electric cars are either a) tiny and ugly - a la G-Whiz, or a reasonably sized car, made of metal, and (heavily) filled with batteries and other gizmos (a la Toyota prius).

I also don't like the smug look people have driving them, especially the prius. Very few greens seem to realise that the damage you do to the environment in building a brand new car is way more than you can generate by driving a car, unless it does about 3 million miles (I'll have to try and figure that out accurately one day...)

What we need is a four door car, say about the size of a mondeo, at no more than half of the weight of a current mondeo. It needs to have a really low drag coefficient, and a very efficient petrol or diesel engine. If it has to lug around less weight, and less drag, you could probably push a mondy around decently with a 1.4 engine.....

Add in some extra batteries, kinetic energy recovery (regenerative braking) and small electric motors for queues, and you'd sell millions.

Oh yeh, and it needs to look nice.



It might not be a hybrid but.. have you seen the new Fiat Bravo?

its a 1.4 turbo with 150bhp and loads of goodies cheap and good looking (IMHO) to boot!





[Edited on 2-6-08 by DaveFJ]

mcerd1 - 2/6/08 at 12:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by vinny1275
I also don't like the smug look people have driving them, especially the prius. Very few greens seem to realise that the damage you do to the environment in building a brand new car is way more than you can generate by driving a car, unless it does about 3 million miles (I'll have to try and figure that out accurately one day...)

spot on
on the enviromental damage side of things building and maitaining a prius is supposed to be one of the worst cars on the maket
its made from high grade alloys and plastics (lots of C02 etc) and then theirs the rather nasty chemicals in the batteries and so on

I'm sure someone in the US did some estimates of lifcycle (or 'dust to dust' ) C02 / energy costs for a whole range of cars, I seem to remember that they worked out allot of americal SUV's were more enviromental friendly over there life than a prius - and the best way to have an eco car was to run cars for as long as posible (while keeping them in good condition obviously)



as for new cars, one of the mags (autoexpress ??) did some real life tests with the new 'eco-ish' cars (inc prius) to see which would get you the best mpg - the winner was a citroen C1 diesel, no extra's just a light, simple car with halfway decent aerodynamics and a reasonble engine

weight is the biggest problem, the new fiesta (not out yet) is supposed to be one of the first new fords where they are basically talking about 'adding lightness' to help with fuel economy/CO2

just as an example:
*my old Mk1 Fiesta, 1979 1.1, 52bhp (well so they claimed)= 730kg, 0-60: ~16s, MPG: 32 to 52+ (drag co. = 0.42)

*current (Mk6?) Fiesta, 2008 1.25, 75PS = 1103kg, 0-60: 13.6s, MPG: 34 to 47 mpg




but forgetting fuel economy and C02 for a minute, have you seen how much soot comes out the back of diesels - especialy the ones in town that never really much of a booting - but its just 'old cars' that get blamed for causing poor air quality - the emissions test for the diesels is a joke


[Edited on 2/6/08 by mcerd1]

smart51 - 2/6/08 at 01:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by iank

I've read there was a proof of concept lightweight prototype Mondeo running a 1.25 litre Zetec SE.
No idea if it actually did more than rice pudding skin removal duties.

[Edited on 2/6/08 by iank]


No reason why it wouldn't work. Its all to do with power / weight ratio. Make your mondeo as light as the fiesta that donated the engine and you get the same acceleration of the mark. The mondeo is wider than the fiesta so will probably have more drag, but then ford have been making aerodynamic concept cars for decades and could make a mondeo sized car unbelievably good if they wanted. They've proven that they can, and put similar looking cars into production. You can only assume that they don't want to.

iank - 2/6/08 at 02:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by iank

I've read there was a proof of concept lightweight prototype Mondeo running a 1.25 litre Zetec SE.
No idea if it actually did more than rice pudding skin removal duties.

[Edited on 2/6/08 by iank]


No reason why it wouldn't work. Its all to do with power / weight ratio. Make your mondeo as light as the fiesta that donated the engine and you get the same acceleration of the mark. The mondeo is wider than the fiesta so will probably have more drag, but then ford have been making aerodynamic concept cars for decades and could make a mondeo sized car unbelievably good if they wanted. They've proven that they can, and put similar looking cars into production. You can only assume that they don't want to.


Tue enough, but the whole point of a rep mobile model is to schlep around us fat blokes and a big boot full of stuff.

MikeRJ - 2/6/08 at 05:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
weight is the biggest problem, the new fiesta (not out yet) is supposed to be one of the first new fords where they are basically talking about 'adding lightness' to help with fuel economy/CO2


Unfortunately making very light cars makes things difficult you want lots of Euro NCAP stars...

mcerd1 - 3/6/08 at 07:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Unfortunately making very light cars makes things difficult you want lots of Euro NCAP stars...


even with that there is allot of extra weight in all the toys that all modern cars seem to have - for starters just think how many extra eletric motors are in a new car - eletric windows/ sunroof, eletric seat adjustment, powered mirrors, self closing doors........... do you really need any of that ?