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Why a bike licence
Ivan - 26/6/08 at 08:36 PM

Can someone please explain to me why people with vehicle driving licence need a bike licence as well.

If they are competent to drive a machine that's many times more lethal to others on the road than a bike and allowed to ride a bike with a learners license what's the advantage of licensing them for a bike. And I don't know the British law but in SA you can get your licence and the next day ride a Hyabusa or or something equally lethal to an inexperienced rider.

Licensing bike riders who already have Car licenses just seems daft to me.

eznfrank - 26/6/08 at 08:38 PM

Because it's a completely different machine with different controls and handling capabilities. The provisional part of a car licence doesn't cover any bike and is restricted.

Knowing the rules of the road is only half the job.

In the Uk there are different grades of bike licence and I feel it would be worth replicating this across to the car sector where you could in theory pass your test at 17 and jump in daddys Veyron, unlikely but all the while possible and perfectly legal!!



[Edited on 26/6/08 by eznfrank]

UncleFista - 26/6/08 at 08:45 PM

But, if you decide to take a load of garden rubbish to the tip, you can't just hitch a trailer to the Veyron, nowadays you need to pass a seperate test to pull a trailer !

eznfrank - 26/6/08 at 08:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
But, if you decide to take a load of garden rubbish to the tip, you can't just hitch a trailer to the Veyron, nowadays you need to pass a seperate test to pull a trailer !


Takes the piss, when I was 17 and had only had my licence 10 days I drove a LWB tranny with a 22 foot trailer coast to coast in Scotland as support team for my dad and his mates who were doing a quadrathlon endurance event. No crashes or anything although some very hairy moments!!!!!

StevieB - 26/6/08 at 09:00 PM

You can't just jump on a bike with a car license either, you have t do a Compulsory Basic Training assessment first.

They've also changed the standard classifications you get on a license in the last few years too - when doing driver training in with the army we often found the younger people weren't allowed to work with trailers or drive some of the larger vehicles, and had to apply to have the entitlements added.

Alan B - 26/6/08 at 09:02 PM

Ah...glad I found this thread....I went in Halfords the other looking for a towbar for my Veyron...they looked at me as if I was kidding or something...

matt_claydon - 26/6/08 at 09:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by eznfrank
quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
But, if you decide to take a load of garden rubbish to the tip, you can't just hitch a trailer to the Veyron, nowadays you need to pass a seperate test to pull a trailer !


Takes the piss, when I was 17 and had only had my licence 10 days I drove a LWB tranny with a 22 foot trailer coast to coast in Scotland as support team for my dad and his mates who were doing a quadrathlon endurance event. No crashes or anything although some very hairy moments!!!!!


Bit contradictory there! That sounds like very good evidence for the new laws to me.

Frustrating for those of us who can only tow 750kg but to be fair large trailers are very different beasts and some extra training seem to make sense to me.

Besides, there's no problem towing garden waste to the tip, as long as it's in a sub-750kg trailer.

owelly - 26/6/08 at 09:26 PM

As far as having to pass a different test for a bike....why bother to have a pilots licence? Or if you can put on a sticky plaster, why bother training to be a doctor...??

coozer - 26/6/08 at 09:46 PM

Its simple here... for me anyway...

Car license = drive a car
Bike license = ride a bike
HGV license = drive a lorry (hate then now!)
PCV license = drive a bus
Forklift test = forklift working.

So, I have all of them, because... when I was 16 I wanted a bike.. when I was 18 my dad insisted I passed a car test... when I was 21 in London looking for a job, bus driving came up... when I was on the dole later they sent me for HGV test. In between I've passed forklift truck test so, all these things have come as I've passed through my career.

Whats the big deal???

Mr G - 26/6/08 at 10:05 PM

Just found out the other day that I can jump on a 50cc moped and blat it around without any L plates or having to take a CBT on just my normal car license

I can even carry a passenger on the back for christ sake!

mr_pr - 26/6/08 at 10:09 PM

Getting your bike license isn't learning how to ride a bike. You learn that on your CBT. It is learning how to not get hit by other drivers on the road.

Riding a bike on the road requires and entirely different reaction to events, placement on road, etc. Otherwise, you get hit, come off, end up injured/dead.

It is tested separately to keep you alive.

iank - 26/6/08 at 10:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr G
Just found out the other day that I can jump on a 50cc moped and blat it around without any L plates or having to take a CBT on just my normal car license

I can even carry a passenger on the back for christ sake!


The moped thing is a strange anachronism. Should be on a bike license (or have it's own).

iiyama - 27/6/08 at 06:39 AM

The bike test is quite a lot different from the car test. And I have to say that having passed my bike test it has made me a better car driver.

speedyxjs - 27/6/08 at 06:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr G
Just found out the other day that I can jump on a 50cc moped


Down here we call them hair driers

Ivan - 27/6/08 at 07:16 AM

Obviously very different here to GB - here you pass your learners test on the road code - get your learner license - hop on your Hyabusa and ride around for 6 months and if you survive go for your rider test - if you can handle it OK i.e. stop and take off on a hill, turn on a hill and a few such things and know your road code then you pass - so that's why I asked why a motorcycle license.

It sounds as if in GB as well once you have passed your CBT you are out there on your own learning how to avoid ending up in hospital - so I ask again - why a riders license why not just endorse the drivers license with a CBT.

Don't get me wrong - I would love a performance bike but I know that at 58 and never having ridden one before I just don't have the skill sets or instincts to handle what I would be tempted to get and do on it so won't buy one. Also not willing to take the falls that the learning process would produce.

[Edited on 27/6/08 by Ivan]

[Edited on 27/6/08 by Ivan]

Mr Whippy - 27/6/08 at 07:38 AM

I thought my CBT was a bit of a joke, could barely change gear without falling off and was handed a certificate

Is it possible to fail that test??

Haven’t crashed it yet though but at 60mph it's terrifying


[Edited on 27/6/08 by Mr Whippy]

mcerd1 - 27/6/08 at 08:14 AM

If I had my way there would be a CBT for cars (instead of the stupid theory test)
but then maybe thats because I like in a small town full of learners

re: the trailer test

my brother and a couple of my mates have sat the car+trailer test (B+E) and its not easy - basically its an artic lorry test with a smaller vehicle

the council skips are up the back of the industrial estate I work at, so I see all kinds of trailers and their drivers, most of which will never have sat a test - its quite scary (twice I've seen wheels fall off the trailer, one time it nearly hit my car )
how many of you have seen or know someone who just doesn't have a clue trying to reverse a trailer, or towing a caravan at 80mph with it weaving all over the place.........and so on

btw - I believe that all the people who sat there test before 97 and currently have trailer, minibus, 7.5tonne licences by default will lose these entitlements when they need to re-apply for there licences (when they are 70 or what ever the age is.....)

[Edited on 27/6/08 by mcerd1]

Dangle_kt - 27/6/08 at 09:00 AM

CBT is not a test, its training.

woodster - 27/6/08 at 09:09 AM

I did the 4 day bike course then took my test on the 5th day and passed ... had a sore arse .. 8 hours a day on bike but i also think it made me a better car driver

JoelP - 27/6/08 at 09:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
It sounds as if in GB as well once you have passed your CBT you are out there on your own learning how to avoid ending up in hospital - so I ask again - why a riders license why not just endorse the drivers license with a CBT.



i believe in england there is a power restriction for a few years. 37bhp rings a bell?

I too firmly believe that the car test should be replaced with a modular system, starting with a cbt style thing. Different modules to allow higher power, night, long distance, passangers etc. Possibly even a swipe card to start any vehicle, undoubtedly combined with logged usage and linked taxing!

CBT to allow you into a car, and allowed to take supervised lessons. No civilian supervision unless they have passed a supervision module.

First test allows you out by youself, limited to urban roads only, with a power restriction of maybe 70bhp/tonne. Speed limited too.

you get my drift anyway, cant be arsed continuing

speedyxjs - 27/6/08 at 09:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
It sounds as if in GB as well once you have passed your CBT you are out there on your own learning how to avoid ending up in hospital - so I ask again - why a riders license why not just endorse the drivers license with a CBT.



i believe in england there is a power restriction for a few years. 37bhp rings a bell?


I think its 50cc's for 2 years with L plates

donut - 27/6/08 at 10:36 AM

I think when you do both bike and car training they should talk to you in depth about what you are in control of and what damage it can do. A few pics of dead mangled people post accident may make new drivers (especially young ones who think they know it all) think twice before racing their mates up the high street in a car bairly fit for the road!!

D Beddows - 27/6/08 at 10:59 AM

quote:

A few pics of dead mangled people post accident may make new drivers (especially young ones who think they know it all) think twice before racing their mates up the high street in a car bairly fit for the road!!


Not a chance in h*ll of that helping - as you said you think you know it all at that age (sad you seem to have forgotten it all when you get older and it could be useful isn't it ) so a couple of gory pictures isn't going to change that is it!

I would say the best reason for passing your bike test is not having to ride a 125 - sorry to all it's fans but a CG125 is a miserable thing to have to ride (unless you haven't ridden anything else) unless you're about 5ft 5 and 8 stone wringing wet - and even then.......

mcerd1 - 27/6/08 at 11:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
I too firmly believe that the car test should be replaced with a modular system, starting with a cbt style thing. Different modules to allow higher power, night, long distance, passangers etc. Possibly even a swipe card to start any vehicle, undoubtedly combined with logged usage and linked taxing!

CBT to allow you into a car, and allowed to take supervised lessons. No civilian supervision unless they have passed a supervision module.

First test allows you out by youself, limited to urban roads only, with a power restriction of maybe 70bhp/tonne. Speed limited too.

you get my drift anyway, cant be arsed continuing

apart from anything else, limiting you to urban roads isn't exactly practical in a rural area

I don't think I'd go that far, I just recon that a car CBT would get people who have never driven before off the road until they can demonstrate a basic level of car control, this way it would be much less frustrating for the rest of us.


although I also recon that limiting the engine size/ power for the first couple of years would help, as would limiting the number of passengers (I assume they would need to display some kind of 'P' plate to make it enforceable)
but even then its possible to go far too fast in even the smallest engined cars
my old 106 had 59hp/tonne according to pugeot, and it could still get to 85mph fairly easily (not on public roads ofcourse - I wonder if Mango had it on any autobans in germany ?.......)

I recon the best way to deal with this (and lots of other issues for cars and bikes) would be to increase the penalty for driving without insurance (to at least 2 or 3 time the cost of the insurance)

[Edited on 27/6/08 by mcerd1]

02GF74 - 27/6/08 at 12:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
quote:

A few pics of dead mangled people post accident may make new drivers (especially young ones who think they know it all) think twice before racing their mates up the high street in a car bairly fit for the road!!


Not a chance in h*ll of that helping - as you said you think you know it all at that age (sad you seem to have forgotten it all when you get older and it could be useful isn't it ) so a couple of gory pictures isn't going to change that is it!



yep; whe you are 17/18 you think you are invincible and live for ever, a couple of pictures of mashed up bodies won't make a difference. it is only when you get old(er) and have responsibliliteis to your family that it changes.

stevebubs - 27/6/08 at 12:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I thought my CBT was a bit of a joke, could barely change gear without falling off and was handed a certificate

If you'd fallen off the you wouldn't have gotten one...
quote:

Is it possible to fail that test??

I've known several people fail it - most of them complete numptys
quote:

Haven’t crashed it yet though but at 60mph it's terrifying

I had a "sudden deflation" on my rear tyre @ 65 with cars coming the other way...that was "interesting" but not a scratch on me or the bike....

[Edited on 27/6/08 by stevebubs]

Mole - 28/6/08 at 08:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I thought my CBT was a bit of a joke, could barely change gear without falling off and was handed a certificate

Is it possible to fail that test??



I know they can withold a certificate until they think your okay. When I did mine someone there had come back for the third time (and no it wasn't me)

[Edited on 28/6/08 by Mole]

paul the 6th - 22/7/08 at 10:25 AM

How the british motorcycle system works:

CBT = Compulsory basic training (a certificate which is valid for 2 years)
At the age of 16, this entitles you to ride a moped upto 50cc with l-plates displayed front and back, you are NOT allowed to carry a passenger (aka pillion).

Age 17 or over, you can ride a bike upto 125cc (the actual power restriction is stated in kwH/kg as part of a EC directive, but the 125cc limit is the closest in laymans terms on the showroom floor). Again, l-plates front and back & no pillion.

The cbt entitles you to get out on the road as a provisional rider and get some experience.

Once you've done this you have a 2 year window to get your test passed (if you actually want a bike licence... failing that you can just do your cbt every 2 years like most of the couriers in london).

Theory test
similar to the car test with 35 questions and hazard perception. Once this is passed, you can apply for your practical.

Practical Test
45 minute to 1 hour assessed ride. There are 2 types of practical. The 'A1' and 'A'.
A1 = allows the rider to ride bikes upto 33 bhp. If you pass your A1, you're restricted to 33bhp for 2 years and/or until you're 21 years old.

If you're over 21, you can take the 'A' straight away = big bikes

Passing this allows the rider to ride any motorcycle.

When I did my car test, it was all about how to actually pass the test. "Don't cross your arms. The instructor wants to see you looking over your shoulder when reversing, looking in the mirror isnt good enough etc. You have to try 4th gear when in a 30 mph or the instructor will give you a minor" (yes I was told this and did receive a minor for not trying 4th gear in a 30mph because it was a 2 litre diesel 206... wankers.

I did 18 hours of bike tuition and the emphasis is completely on "Has that car driver at the junction actually seen you? Make eye contact with them till you pass. If they break eye contact, get on the brakes 'cos they're going to pull out on you". Or "Before you move out to overtake that parked car, have you checked your blindspot to see if the space you're moving into is free?" (the instructor would purposely get in these spaces to catch me out when I hadn't checked...)

Also, things like u-turns and emergency stops required alot more practice & concentration than 3-point turns. U-turn, if you lose your balance or concentration you can drop the bike or hit the curb. Emergency stops = if you're rubbish at front and rear brake control you'll lock the front and slide down the road on your face...

So yes. I think bike licences should be kept seperate to cars and I can only see the new changes to the bike test (introduced in october 2008) as a good thing - (although the clash with european numptys over the 31mph emergency stop thing is just carp).

End of rant p.s. I'm passionate about bikes

[Edited on 22/7/08 by paul the 6th]

David Jenkins - 22/7/08 at 11:23 AM

Following on from the last posting...

I passed my bike test years ago, when it was the stupid 'drive round the block while I watch you' affair. Anything's more sensible than that!

I think that I'm a far better car driver because of all the experiences I gained on my bikes (I used to do around 400 miles a week).

trogdor - 22/7/08 at 01:07 PM

my dad told me of the time he took his test, the bike he had borrowed kept stalling and he had to keep trying to re-start it. Luckily it was the test where the instructer was on foot and he never noticed!

[Edited on 22/7/08 by trogdor]