EeeK!
all this talk of petrol running out and how electric cars are the future, why isn't alcohol distilled from sugar not being touted as a
workable alternative?
growing the sugar (beet or cane) is non polluting and a renewable resource as long as the sun shines.
but the biggest advantage is that existing car engine technology can be used with some minor(?) modificationt to run on alcohol (they run VW beetles
on alcohol or maybe alcohol mix in Brazil) - surely cheaper and more environmentally friendly than bulding new electric cars?
(mebbe a good time to buy shares in Tate and Lyle).
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
all this talk of petrol running out and how electric cars are the future, why isn't alcohol distilled from sugar not being touted as a workable alternative?
growing the sugar (beet or cane) is non polluting and a renewable resource as long as the sun shines.
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
all this talk of petrol running out and how electric cars are the future, why isn't alcohol distilled from sugar not being touted as a workable alternative?
growing the sugar (beet or cane) is non polluting and a renewable resource as long as the sun shines.
but the biggest advantage is that existing car engine technology can be used with some minor(?) modificationt to run on alcohol (they run VW beetles on alcohol or maybe alcohol mix in Brazil) - surely cheaper and more environmentally friendly than bulding new electric cars?
(mebbe a good time to buy shares in Tate and Lyle).
Errrm... Call me stupid - but isn't that just exactly the Biofuel that is driving up food prices....
I thought petrol had just gone up in price... not ran out!
EeeK!
Buy a motor bike
Theoretically, you could make EU farmers who have set asside their land and receive subsidies to use this land to grow biofuel crops. Use could make
them use some of the biofuel to power their tractors and to power the plant that converts the bio matter to bio fuel. It wouldn't affect food
prices or taxation.
The problem, I'm told, is that by the time you've harvested the crop, converted it to fuel and delivered it to filling stations, using the
fuel to power the tractors and truck, there won't be much of your bio fuel left.
sorry - seems I didn't make my point clear.
whcih was instead of developing electic motor and building new cars with them, why is more effort done to convert existing engines to alcohol?
biofuel - that is diesetl type stuff? so what about the petrol engines?
Trouble is oils been so cheap for years (relatively, most of the cost to end users is tax) that nobody has had the forethought to come up with a
viable alternative.
Cheers,
Bob
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
biofuel - that is diesetl type stuff? so what about the petrol engines?
quote:
Biofuel can be broadly defined as solid, liquid, or gas fuel derived from recently dead biological material, most commonly plants. This distinguishes it from fossil fuel, which is derived from long dead biological material.
quote:
Originally posted by nib1980
and this is the reason that food crops are being massivley overpriced on world markets, and people in those countrys can't aford food now.
the only viable solution is Neuclear.
Discuss.........
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
sorry - seems I didn't make my point clear.
why is more effort done to convert existing engines to alcohol?
I live in the heart of the Fens, when I was at school my geography teacher was always going on about how the amount of sugar beet we produce in our
area meant that in the next 20 years almost all cars in the UK would be running on fuel produced in our area from a by product of sugar production. We
would be richer that the Saudis.
Unfortunatly thats not happened yet, and EU rules means that now beet production has almost stopped in our area, the sugar plants have shut down, we
buy huge amounts of beet from abroad.
Looks like some trials are going to start soon about making some bio-fuel from beet.
What a wasted oportunity, this was 20 years ago and I doubt the viable alternative fuel will be around in the next 20 years. 
quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
The answer is to slaughter Half the worlds population. Then there would be enough resources to go around.
The Main issue here is that there is a PLAGUE of PEOPLE on this planet.
Its gone from 4 Billion to 6 Billion in the 50 years that I have been here. That is an unsustainable expansion rate, and its begining to show.
Quote: The Main issue here is that there is a PLAGUE of PEOPLE on this planet.
A superb point well put!!
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by iscmatt
Quote: The Main issue here is that there is a PLAGUE of PEOPLE on this planet.
A superb point well put!!
one 'man' who would agree with you -
Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Buy a motor bike
I like this and I think it has a lot of potental --
230 MPG at a steady state of 55 MPH
http://www.aptera.com/details.php
[Edited on 8/7/08 by Mr Whippy]
"We're a virus with shoes"
I'm interested in this:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/ethanol-1.html
Think how much grass there is growing everywhere, peoples gardens, 400,000 miles of British road verges. Doesn't need replanting either.
I don't understand the whole "it takes loads of energy to plant/harvest crops for ethanol" Run the machines on ethanol then (liquid
sunlight)
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
I don't understand the whole "it takes loads of energy to plant/harvest crops for ethanol" Run the machines on ethanol then (liquid sunlight)
good point, yeah there are quite a few new methods going around just now, some were in my Focus mag. At this rate petrol and crude oil may be
replaced before the middle east has time to react, they'll be poverty stricken with Hummers
nuclear electricity production, electrolytic hydrogen productiona dn fucl cell based transport IMO
Dont get me started on this countries setaside policies, or buying from abroad, or allowing our entire manufactuing industry to collapse, or the total
loss of social conscience.
Oil was always going to get expensive, if anyone is to blame its the oil companies and the government
for selling it too cheaply in the past!
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Buy a motor bike
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
all this talk of petrol running out and how electric cars are the future, why isn't alcohol distilled from sugar not being touted as a workable alternative?
growing the sugar (beet or cane) is non polluting and a renewable resource as long as the sun shines.
but the biggest advantage is that existing car engine technology can be used with some minor(?) modificationt to run on alcohol (they run VW beetles on alcohol or maybe alcohol mix in Brazil) - surely cheaper and more environmentally friendly than bulding new electric cars?
(mebbe a good time to buy shares in Tate and Lyle).
in all seriousness, i really think there should be a cull of humans. There are way too many of us on the planet and as someone else said, we are
destroying it, abusing it, doing what we want with it.
the most intelligent spiecies on the planet - hardly. We are the most stupid animals on the planet..
also have you noticed the amount of "End of the world" disaster movies in the recent years - not only are we obssessed with destroying the
planet, we are also dreaming about it too.
This planet is turning in to a S*ithole - what future do we really have to look forward to?
( sorry for anyone now thinking about killing themselves, although it would help the situation! ).... :-)
quote:
Originally posted by nstrug
3. Producing ethanol CONSUMES MORE ENERGY THAN THERE IS IN THE ETHANOL!!!
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
I heard that sometjhing like 30 % of people that have ever lived are alive right now!!
I take it all those ranting about the need for a large human cull aren't putting themselves or their families forwards?
Back in reality we
have to accept our growing population and come up with ways to support and/or regulate its growth!
Biofuels are a bit of a fad with dubious long term prospects imo. Another 'soundbite' not yet mentioned here is that apparently the damage
to the environment from CO2 mitigated by replacing fossil fuels with biofuels is largely offset by damage from NO2 related to all the nitrogen
fertiliser required to grow the biofuel crops. Seems like the biofuel bubble could be bursting already.
As has been mentioned above the best long term solution imo is nuclear - but fusion as opposed to fission. No pollution, no possibility for large
accidents and no long-life radioactive waste - in fact almost no radioactive waste at all. I went round JET in Culham with work last year and
basically they're quietly getting on with solving all the scientific and engineering problems related to producing a commercial fusion power
plant. Will be a few decades yet though at current funding levels. Good luck to them I say (and to hell with the ignorant short-sighted green
brigade who'd prevent money being spent on this kind of research if they could, whilst living comfortably off the back of people who aren't
afraid of technological innovation).
Liam
[Edited on 8/7/08 by Liam]
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.10/myths.html
quote:
As has been mentioned above the best long term solution imo is nuclear - but fusion as opposed to fission. No pollution, no possibility for large accidents and no long-life radioactive waste - in fact almost no radioactive waste at all. I went round JET in Culham with work last year and basically they're quietly getting on with solving all the scientific and engineering problems related to producing a commercial fusion power plant. Will be a few decades yet though at current funding levels. Good luck to them I say (and to hell with the ignorant short-sighted green brigade who'd prevent money being spent on this kind of research if they could, whilst living comfortably off the back of people who aren't afraid of technological innovation).
i'm firmly in the nuclear group - so much so my gf had to suffer me arguing with a greenpeace person at glasto.
They wanted me to sign a "no more coal power stations" campagain. I refused until i was told exactly what i'd be signing up for as
greenpeace refuse to accept nuclear and they're not doing that in my name.
Anyway, we had a long 'discussion' (i was drunk, she was 70). She believes society is starting to crumble and wave power is the future. I
asked her what evidence there was wave power worked - she had none (as far as i'm aware the three major trials started recently, two have broken
and one isn't generating anything like the eleccy they expected). She refused to consider anything else but wave - with ZERO evidence it works
& kept asking me to sign the petition whilst telling me society was knackered and we're heading to chaos .......... so why sign the
petition, its not as tho they'll get built as in 10 years we'll be every man for himself.
I despair!
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Anyway, we had a long 'discussion' (i was drunk, she was 70).