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Hamilton: -Rules
richardlee237 - 8/9/08 at 08:59 AM

Rather than making comments from a position of ignorance I thought I would check the FIA regs regarding the Hamilton misdemeanour.

Article 2(g) of Chapter 4 of Appendix L states
"g) The race track alone shall be used by the drivers during the
race."

This is the regulation quoted by the stewards justifying the penalty.
Hamilton certainly used more than the race track alone.

BUT

Article 2(c) of Chapter 4 of Appendix L states

"c) ..... manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers such as
....... deliberate crowding of cars towards the inside or the
outside of the curve or any other abnormal change of direction,
are strictly prohibited......".


Did Raikkonen deliberately crowd Hamilton to the outside of the curve ?

Surely it is all racing.

[Edited on 8/9/08 by richardlee237]

BenB - 8/9/08 at 09:11 AM

So are they suggesting that if you use the run-off area to prevent a crash that's your race over? Because if so why didn't they punish all the cars who went off into the run-off area at the first corner.... and if I seem to recall a certain RedCar(tm) went off onto the run-off area at one point and this was totally ignored....

Paul TigerB6 - 8/9/08 at 09:13 AM

quote:
Originally posted by richardlee237Article 2(g) of Chapter 4 of Appendix L states
"g) The race track alone shall be used by the drivers during the
race."

This is the regulation quoted by the stewards justifying the penalty.
Hamilton certainly used more than the race track alone.



So would Raikonen have got the same penalty for driving right around the escape road on one of the corners just before he crashed?? I think not!!!

I dont think Raikonen was to blame for pushing Lewis wide - it was a racing incident and Lewis never got far enough pass to take the corner so he did what he had to and used the escape road. If he had stuck to the track, the Ferrari International Assistance would have just charged him with causing an avoidable accident and demoted him anyway. So Lewis ended up right on his gearbox and that was deemed to be an unfair advantage then?? Well from what i saw he was already there, and would have been in the two regardless of the attempt to pass or not.

Delinquent - 8/9/08 at 09:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by richardlee237

Surely it is all racing.

[Edited on 8/9/08 by richardlee237]


You are missing the most important aspect: It's all racing to the FIA, right up to the point where Ferrari aren't winning. There are literally hundreds of identical situations where no penalty has resulted, however with the only minor difference that it wouldn't have benefited Ferrari.

BenB - 8/9/08 at 09:23 AM

For most of the straight before the corner he was right up Kimi's trumpet. After backing off he went back to the same position (although slightly to the side IE even worse position). Then he overtook him..... End of.

kendo - 8/9/08 at 09:24 AM

What I have yet to figure out is how being behind the car in front is advantageous to winning a race. Worth a ponder!

Project7 - 8/9/08 at 09:29 AM

Im not surprised by this penalty (even if i disagree with it), the FIA have always favoured Ferrari.

Here is my all time favourite piece of blatant favouritism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJJXIgnjug0

Schumacher slides in to Montoya, Montoya gets a drive through!!

hampshe - 8/9/08 at 09:30 AM

Somebody needs to take issue with the FIA and their unfair treatment of Mclaren, this is not even subtle any more, just persecution.
Mclaren must have p****d off Max mosely badly when he ran March racing cars

Agriv8 - 8/9/08 at 09:32 AM

you misssed the one in really small type at the end.

If any rule can be 'interprated' to favour Ferrari all other rules become null and void.

FIA indipendent ? Discuss !!!! Come on Bernie sort them out before they bring on the clowns

Regards

Agriv8

richardlee237 - 8/9/08 at 09:35 AM

I have been speed reading the regs but cannot find any mention of what is deemed to be, or not to be, an unfair advantage. It does appear to be a matter of the stewards interpretation.

What really depresses me about all this is that it was all racing. Ferrari didn't protest the results so why do the stewards feel that they have to become embroiled in what they must have known was a marginal decision.

BenB - 8/9/08 at 09:44 AM

Didn't they???

No whispering in people's ears? No gentle persuassion "hello Mr Chief Steward, would you like an Enzo?".

For some reason I increasingly imagine Max Mosely as the bloke from Dr Strangelove. Do you think he jumps up in the middle of FIA meetings and screams "WE MUST OBEY THE FUHRER!!!!".

richardlee237 - 8/9/08 at 09:57 AM

Being old enough to have watched Fangio race, I can remember the days when teams would have refused to accept such a hollow victory.

But that was when drivers paid to go Grand Prix racing, nobody wore crash helmets, timekeeping was done by posh looking birds with scarves and sunglasses, and driver preparation consisted of reducing alcoholic intake the night before.

(Sigh)

RickRick - 8/9/08 at 10:16 AM

why were ferrari allowed to chance sparkplugs, engine wiring loom, and the pedalbox whilst the car was in parc ferme.

why is the ferrari engine rumored to be 30 bhp up on the start of the season, even though egine development is fixed

max mosley, and berni eccleston are in this together, and have been for a long time

russbost - 8/9/08 at 12:23 PM

I think one major point which has been missed is that, rightly or wrongly, Max believes it was Ron Dennis that set him up with the bondage/hooker/News of the World situation
I don't think you will see McLaren treated fairly until either Max or Ron are no longer at their respective helms.
As has been said this is no longer subtle, but quite blatantly unfair.
It's a real shame because the last 20 minutes made the rest of the fairly processional race worth watching, & i felt that was one of Hammy's best drives yet (tho' it's becoming difficult to choose!!!).
I honestly don't think he'll be allowed to win the championship unless it becomes truly unavoidable.
Look at last race at Brazil last year, has anyone ever seen a car lose all its drive only to suddenly recover & run the full race distance without a problem, I think had he been able to make the places he needed the gearbox just might have had another hissy fit!!!
Bernie is worth something like £60 Billion (a figure which I can't even imagine the real meaning of) & I don't think Max is exactly borracic - with that sort of money most things can be made to happen.

matt_claydon - 8/9/08 at 12:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
Bernie is worth something like £60 Billion (a figure which I can't even imagine the real meaning of)


£2.4 billion in fact, but it's academic as it's still more than anyone could ever know what to do with!

designer - 8/9/08 at 01:08 PM

Lewis should have waited until after the corner following to pass. He is deamed to have gained an advantage untill after they round the next corner.

Both Max and Dennis should not be their! I am surprised that Mercedes let him leave the office. Funny how Max was the saviour of F1 when her took over from Balestre.

richardlee237 - 8/9/08 at 02:52 PM

I bet Bernie knows how much he is worth to the nearest penny !!!

richardlee237 - 8/9/08 at 02:53 PM

I bet Bernie knows how much he is worth to the nearest penny !!!

richardlee237 - 8/9/08 at 02:56 PM

Oh no ! I've been struck down by the super infectious double posting bacteria.

designer - 8/9/08 at 03:42 PM

Don't forget, Bernie is pennyless. It all belongs to wifey and daughter!

britishtrident - 8/9/08 at 04:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RickRick
why were ferrari allowed to chance sparkplugs, engine wiring loom, and the pedalbox whilst the car was in parc ferme.

why is the ferrari engine rumored to be 30 bhp up on the start of the season, even though egine development is fixed

max mosley, and berni eccleston are in this together, and have been for a long time



"Reliability mods" can be squeezed through on the nod from the FIA -- the interesting thing is Renault asked for reliability mods and got the cold shoulder Favio is apparently not pleased.

The Ferrari engine mods are most noticable in the back of the Toro Rosso suddenly it is faster than the Red Bull.

chris taylor - 8/9/08 at 06:00 PM

Crucial point here fella's is that Lewis has been punished for a munover on a guy that didn't even finish the race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where's the logic in that ????????????

chris taylor - 8/9/08 at 06:00 PM

Crucial point here fella's is that Lewis has been punished for a munover on a guy that didn't even finish the race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where's the logic in that ????????????

Mark Allanson - 8/9/08 at 07:57 PM

F1 really is a true sport, very much in the same vein as saturday afternoon wrestling