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FIA hearing today!
carpmart - 22/9/08 at 08:16 AM

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080921165155.shtml

Lets hope some justice prevails today for Hamilton, McLaren and ultimately for the spectacle which is F1.

[Edited on 22/9/08 by carpmart]

chris_smith - 22/9/08 at 08:30 AM

probably not as they clarified the ruling about a week ago, something like if you gain unfair advantage you must let the other driver back past till after one more corner
or something like that
i believe this ruling is nonsense and that hamilton should have his win and points returned

chris

theconrodkid - 22/9/08 at 08:34 AM

i read somewhere the "one more corner" was dreampt up after the event,never let fact get in the way of a win for the red cars tho?

Paul TigerB6 - 22/9/08 at 08:37 AM

I believe the penalty was too harsh given that the rules werent clear at the time and that Massa simply didnt deserve to win. If Kimi hadnt thrown it off the track then i wouldnt have minded it quite so much if he'd have won after leading like he did.

I have a feeling though that the FIA will simply keep the penalty in place and do nothing

Alfa145 - 22/9/08 at 08:54 AM

Any bets on the punishment being increased?

Paul TigerB6 - 22/9/08 at 09:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Alfa145
Any bets on the punishment being increased?


Fine the team maybe. Cant see Lewis suffering any more of a penalty unless the boys in red have had a word

Delinquent - 22/9/08 at 09:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by Alfa145
Any bets on the punishment being increased?


Fine the team maybe. Cant see Lewis suffering any more of a penalty unless the boys in red have had a word


So you can see his penalty being increased then?

It would be nice to think that this would be resolved correctly, but lets face it, unless Ferrari pull out F1 altogether before the hearing it's somewhat unlikely.

Regarding the rule clarification - McLaren don't take on appeals unless they have a VERY good chance of winning, which would suggest this next-corner "rule" isn't something that's written down anywhere.

phoenix70 - 22/9/08 at 09:31 AM

The 'next corner rule' was a clarification given to the drivers before Monza. People say the punishment was too harsh, but at the end of the day, had it happen one lap earlier, he would have been given a drive through instead, which he couldn't appeal.


From what I've read, the basic premise is that he would not have been in a position to challenge into the first corner, had he taken the the correct line out of the last corner.

In case anyone has any doubt's, I am a Ferrari fan.

BenB - 22/9/08 at 09:59 AM

There's no way they should enforce the "next corner" thing. It's not a clarification, its an ammendment to the rules and they shouldn't be retrospective. Now everyone knows about it it's enforceable (just about).

As said the "next corner" thing was only first mentioned after the incident. That's just the FIA changing the rules to suit their own (Ferrari's) needs....

carpmart - 22/9/08 at 10:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by BenB
There's no way they should enforce the "next corner" thing. It's not a clarification, its an ammendment to the rules and they shouldn't be retrospective. Now everyone knows about it it's enforceable (just about).

As said the "next corner" thing was only first mentioned after the incident. That's just the FIA changing the rules to suit their own (Ferrari's) needs....


+1 - well said that man!

MikeCapon - 22/9/08 at 10:35 AM

From the ITV F1 site

Quote

"Lewis Hamilton and the McLaren and Ferrari teams have arrived in Paris for the court of appeal hearing that will decide the result of the Belgian Grand Prix."

WTF has this got to do with Ferrari? If its because the outcome affects Ferrari's point total then shouldn't BMW be there as well?

oldtimer - 22/9/08 at 11:15 AM

Agree with the above. Not a team issue but a rules issue. If it had to be ammended then it was vague before that and the 'punishment' should be removed. Does F1 stand for Ferrari 1st or what?!...

omega 24 v6 - 22/9/08 at 11:30 AM

quote:

WTF has this got to do with Ferrari

Because Mike in the opinion of many (not me) Ferrari's Is (or should that be are) formula one in many peoples eye's. They are deemed to be THE greatest sportscar builders in the world and no one but no one should be allowed to be in front of them ever ever ever at all at any time etc etc.
Now I hope that clears up the situation

phoenix70 - 22/9/08 at 11:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeCapon
From the ITV F1 site

Quote

"Lewis Hamilton and the McLaren and Ferrari teams have arrived in Paris for the court of appeal hearing that will decide the result of the Belgian Grand Prix."

WTF has this got to do with Ferrari? If its because the outcome affects Ferrari's point total then shouldn't BMW be there as well?

I think Ferrari are there because the hearing may want to hear from the driver Lewis was overtaking when this incident occured

omega 24 v6 - 22/9/08 at 11:38 AM

quote:

I think Ferrari are there because the hearing may want to hear from the driver Lewis was overtaking when this incident occured


Hi Scott (ferrari fan traitor ) your surely not implying that the overtake eventually ended up being the reason kimi went into the wall are you ??

carpmart - 22/9/08 at 11:42 AM

On one had the FIA say they want a return to 'proper' F1 racing and in particular overtaking, and on the other hand, unless its a red car they aren't happy when the drivers get racey!

loggyboy - 22/9/08 at 11:46 AM

I think the key issue that has been missed is that even if Hamilton did gain an advantage, he gained it over Kimi, and no one else

IF its proven/decided that an advantage was made and kimi HAD finished the race they could/should have deducted a suitable amount of time to give Kimi back the win, but as he didnt finish (because he sucks in the wet) then any penalty should be nul and void.

[Edited on 22/9/08 by loggyboy]

Paul TigerB6 - 22/9/08 at 12:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Delinquent

So you can see his penalty being increased then?


I can see the result standing as is with the 25 sec penalty upheld, but a cash fine being imposed on the team for daring to challenge the FIA / steward's decission.

Paul TigerB6 - 22/9/08 at 01:04 PM

Nice clip

And the result - no penalty for the red car!! Of course being a red car it was supposed to be faster so no competitive advantage gained of course as seen by Ferrari International Assistance!!

jollygreengiant - 22/9/08 at 01:57 PM

I have just re-read the article in the article in/on F1 live.com and I like the ambiguity of the last line in the penultimate paragraph :-

"At the meeting, it was explained that a driver must wait at least one corner before attempting to overtake again."

The bit I like is the clarification is still wide open to further interpretation with "must wait 'at least one corner'......"
which to me read that if you cut a chicane or a corner then just park up and go home because we can prolong the penalty distance as much as we like. Or put another way fall behind the car you just tried to pass and IF its a red car DO not try to pass ever again.


But yes I think that the penalty will be increased for having the audacity to challenge a decision.

[Edited on 22/9/08 by jollygreengiant]

CRAIGR - 22/9/08 at 02:30 PM

This still going on..... yawn
Its only F1 anyway , far more entertaining racing to be had elsewhere imho .

oldtimer - 22/9/08 at 02:40 PM

The trouble is that recent history shows that F1 is incredibly boring if Ferrari lead by a mile. At least the shenanigans(?) keeps it close and, so, vaguely interesting. I stopped watching it in full years ago, and now only do the highlights if SOMETHING happens, and that's not often. Moto GP onthe other hand - much more action per minute.

Richard Quinn - 22/9/08 at 05:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CRAIGR
This still going on..... yawn
Its only F1 anyway , far more entertaining racing to be had elsewhere imho .

Possibly true and everyone's entitled to their opinion. However, it's nice to be nice so I don't tell others that I find their chosen interest boring (however, a much younger ex-colleague of mine did once buy a caravan...)

novacaine - 22/9/08 at 05:09 PM

i personaly think the penalty should be dropped but i dont think there is a chance that he will get the win back

if you want decent car racing BTCC or even 750 motor club is the way to go

Paul TigerB6 - 22/9/08 at 05:58 PM

No decission till tomorrow it seems chaps!!

linky

Surrey Dave - 22/9/08 at 09:48 PM

Hamilton cross examined by Ferrari QC!!??


How bizarre!!!

carpmart - 23/9/08 at 06:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
No decission till tomorrow it seems chaps!!

linky


Thats an interesting article. The more I look at this case, the more I feel the FIA, if they are to have any respect from Joe Public, need to rectify the mistake they have made. Its not that I am a McLaren or Hamilton fan and I honestly believe I would have the same opinion if this were Masa or Raikonnen in this position. (OK, I lied about the Kimi bit as I don't like him )

It just needs sorting!

martyn_16v - 23/9/08 at 11:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
the FIA, if they are to have any respect from Joe Public, need to rectify the mistake they have made.


Well, they appear to be going about it in their usual sterling fashion