Just bought an item from seller and at £10 +post is a good buy, its turned up and is spot on.

BUT... Looking at the bidding it was me and BIDDER 2 if it hadn't been for this bidder it would have been mine for 99p.

Check ot the bidder history and it's 100% bids against my seller.
look a bit harder at anything else that should make a bit of money and lo and behold the mystery bidder is in there.

Now it wouldn't be ureasomnable to be a favoritre seller and buy many similar things from one buyer, but these range from taostes to clotese s to spare parts for dishwashers! (my buy).

I thought about it for a while and reported it to ebay and I should have saved my keyboard for all the good its done. They won't tell you if any action is taken even.

Well , the seller has just mailed me to leave feedback!!!

So what do I do?
Leave an honest negative and alert others to my suspicion?
Bearing in mind I really don't want my 100% damaging with a retaliatory negative?

Nothing at all?

Something else?
What do we think?

(This was my item BTW 290261358025)
Off to the pub now to get some advice

dont think sellers can leave neg feedback for buyers anymore

quote:

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Originally posted by ReMan

Leave an honest negative and alert others to my suspicion?
Bearing in mind I really don't want my 100% damaging with a retaliatory negative?

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If you are happy with the item and got it at a good price anyway, you probably have little to gain except a bit of satisfaction by slating him. Stupid ebay rules do indeed stop him giving negative feedback but he might try and get revenge by messing you about in another way.

I'd say probably best to let it go publicly - maybe report him to ebay privately (not that they'll do anything i'm sure as they made extra commission!!)

You may be a bit naive thinking this does not go on all the time.

It doesn't matter as long as you stick to the price you wanted to pay and dont get drawn in to a bidding war , your happy with item so why worry.

There's not many super dooper bargains on Ebay , most things reach their market level more or less.

As I see it soemone has something to sell and wants "x" as a minimum..they can either get someone to run up the bids on their behalf (which I think is what they mean by shill) to reach that minimum....or put a reserve on...both acheive the same in that you don't sell for less than you want.

In "real" auctions getting to someone to run up the price for someone else is very commonplace.

To me as a buyer it makes no difference how its done...I don't expect it to be sold for me cheaper than the buyer intends.

So, as I see it the only losers are E-bay as they don't get a reserve fee....

Or am I wrong in my thinking?

Taking bids 'from the wall' is a well known and not really unfair practice. The auctioneer risks getting stuck with the item if no-one bids higher than the artificial bid.

Irritating but I can't see that it is actually unfair. Buying the item for 99p could be construed as being unfair to the seller.

John

quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson
Buying the item for 99p could be construed as being unfair to the seller.

John

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quote:

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Originally posted by 3GEComponents

quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson
Buying the item for 99p could be construed as being unfair to the seller.

John

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But that's the risk you take with an auction, if you want £10 for the item put the opening bid @ £10, don't put it on at 99p then shill it up to what you want.

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What he's doing is protecting biders identities, the first bidder is bidder1, the second is bidder2 etc, in each of his auctions bidder1/2... may be different people. To bidder2 you showed up as bidder1, look at his other active auctions and you will see bidder1/2....

Only when the item ends does the winning bidder only's real id show.

See This item of his

Rgds.
Pete.

[Edited on 4/10/08 by r1_pete]

[Edited on 4/10/08 by r1_pete]

Just as a note as a seller as well as a buyer on Ebay.

You cannot have a reserve less than £50
if you start the bidding at say £10 you insertion fee is much higher than if you put it in at 99p
So yes shill bidding does happen. If it didn't then the seller would probably remove it before it enden anyway.

So it would be unlightly you would have got it for 99p anyway.

Just my opinion you understand
David

quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson
Taking bids 'from the wall' is a well known and not really unfair practice.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson

I'm just saying that what he did wasn't actually unfair.

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It's shill bidding but hey.
I just put a snipe on with my "best price".
End of problem. If someone wants to shill I'll let them do it to their hearts consent.... (and pay Ebay and Paypal fees in the process).
I just put the snipe as the most I want to pay.
End of problem.
If I don't win it was more than I wanted to pay, if not I win!!!!

I have in the last couple of months had two "happenings" that have made me think that I was bidding against the seller. One I got as a second chance, (or whatever), and the second the winning bid was withdraw, but in both cases I only bid to what I wanted to pay. Cheers Ray

Yes it happens. I got a less than a year old 12" JBL subwoofer with box for my car for 99p. They guy was gutted.

What a great selection of info and opinion, I love it here

"dont think sellers can leave neg feedback for buyers anymore"
That's a good point. And one I may use

"You may be a bit naive thinking this does not go on all the time."
NO definatly not niave, as I said the whole point of my post is the blatencey of it!

"In "real" auctions getting to someone to run up the price for someone else is very commonplace."
In real auctions it does'nt cost anything to set a reserve, hence the Ebay law against it, they loose out too

"Irritating but I can't see that it is actually unfair. Buying the item for 99p could be construed as being unfair to the seller. "
I'd say it was very unfair!! They should set a starting price at their minimum, no?

"It's time like this when a sniper comes in handy"
Good plan, and I'd normally see the end of an auction and do it manually, , but this ones even bidded before others on some items!!

"What he's doing is protecting biders identities. See This item of his"
Identities are always hidden now. Another Ebay farce. If you look at the item in your link, there is the same shiller look at who bidder 2 has ever placed bids with

"It's not "off the wall" bids by an auctioneer though, it's shill bidding by someone on his own items.

Whether this is seen as "the done thing" or not it's against ebay rules, and unfair competition for those who keep to the rules.
Unfortunately if you report them, only the shill bidding user ID will be suspended, the seller won't be affected.
My response would be a neutral feedback with warning for future customers to "beware the shill"
I'm with Unclefista all the way here

"Unfair is perhaps the incorrect term. Immoral and totally against the auction rules is perhaps more accurate. If a seller isn't happy to let an item go for the starting price, then they should either up the starting price or not auction it."
And MikeRJ

"I have in the last couple of months had two "happenings" that have made me think that I was bidding against the seller. One I got as a second chance, (or whatever), and the second the winning bid was withdraw, but in both cases I only bid to what I wanted to pay. Cheers Ray"
And the reason you got it as a second chance was because they had shilled themselves and had no buyer!

"Yes it happens. I got a less than a year old 12" JBL subwoofer with box for my car for 99p. They guy was gutted."
Yes but he was also a genuine and honest seller and working within the ebay rules

Thanks again guys
I certainly won't feel so bad about messing people about on ebay in future
I think I might post regarding the options to use instead of ebay

May not be shill bidding in this case, if you have not bid on any items recently you would come at as 100% bidding on the item you won ?

Maybe bidder two thinks you was a shill bidder and he gave up ?

Just a thought.

quote:

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Originally posted by ReMan

"It's not "off the wall" bids by an auctioneer though, it's shill bidding by someone on his own items.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson

quote:

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Originally posted by ReMan

"It's not "off the wall" bids by an auctioneer though, it's shill bidding by someone on his own items.

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I'd be interested to know what you think the difference is. "Off the wall" means taking bids that haven't actually been bid by a genuine bidder. And the difference with shill bidding is..........?

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Just for the record this is what it looks like.
As can be seen every bid that Bidder2 has made, ibn the last 30 days has been for something that Seller1 has had for sale!
Coincidence or blatent shilling?



shill

Think that's pretty conclusive.

Just like to point out though as an ebay shop seller (Mrs anyway) we get messed about 3-4 times a week by non paying winners, we have also had two blatant attempts at fraud one of which ended with a 5 month long battle with paypal.

Guess what, we can only leave positive feedback ? Explain to me how this is an improvement.

quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson
I'd be interested to know what you think the difference is. "Off the wall" means taking bids that haven't actually been bid by a genuine bidder. And the difference with shill bidding is..........?

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Its happened in auctions and business since time began, annoying but there you go. If your happy with the price you paid its a bargain if not dont bid.
Cheers,
Bob