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Supercharged Duratec Build
Mr C - 9/2/14 at 05:40 PM

Just a quick post of a few images of the engine I've been messing about with since December, quite pleased with the end result thought I'd share my second "proper" engine rebuild (the first was an impreza turbo lump).

Its a supercharged 2.0 duratec from a ST150. Briefly spec is:

Raceline sump
Cosworth Pistons
Williams Motorsport Forged Rods
Newman Cams (278) and heavy duty springs and matching retainers
R300 Plenum, 70mm throttle body
Rotrex C30-94 blower

Still awaiting a few bits, alternator, fuel rail etc though as good as completed, matching it to a 6 speed Maxda 3 MPS box for installation into a "Midlana" chassis

A before with an after..



A couple of arty shots...



One more after..



Hping it'll go as well as it looks..

[Edited on 9/2/14 by Mr C]

[Edited on 9/2/14 by Mr C]

big_wasa - 9/2/14 at 06:08 PM

Looks very nice. Have you started the Midlana chassis yet ?

Any links to the Scooby rebuild ?

[Edited on 9/2/14 by big_wasa]

Mr C - 9/2/14 at 06:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Looks very nice. Have you started the Midlana chassis yet ?

Any links to the Scooby rebuild ?

[Edited on 9/2/14 by big_wasa]


Afraid not Wasa, I posted the build on Kent Scoobies, unfortunately the site is no more, image below as a consolation..



If you are thinking of rebuilding one, they are not too bad, splitting the crankcase is a PITA and a bit costly on parts compared with the Duratec. When it fired up it was a sweet moment though..

Next step is build the chassis table and start on the chassis

TrophyJem - 9/2/14 at 06:42 PM

That looks proper nice. What paint did you use on the block and cam cover?

Mr C - 9/2/14 at 07:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TrophyJem
That looks proper nice. What paint did you use on the block and cam cover?


Etch primer and VHT engine enamel on the block, VHT crinkle paint on the covers. I normally use Simoniz alloy wheel paint and lacquer with etch primer for an alloy finish on engines. Its fine with the heat and gives a good alloy look "Steel wheels" colour rather than "silver wheels" which is too bright ( at least I think its that way round)

big_wasa - 9/2/14 at 07:02 PM

even nicer

Are you planning on bending the cage your self or getting it done ? That and a few other toys are slowing me up starting the Midlana.

Mr C - 9/2/14 at 07:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
even nicer

Are you planning on bending the cage your self or getting it done ? That and a few other toys are slowing me up starting the Midlana.


Depends on how I decide to construct it, currently looking at making the chassis out of box with a bolt on cage,.. though thats for another thread I have started a build thread on the Midlana forum though not a great deal on it currently.

jeffw - 9/2/14 at 07:14 PM

Mike

Has anyone else ever used the R300 plenum for boosted applications?

Mr C - 9/2/14 at 07:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Mike

Has anyone else ever used the R300 plenum for boosted applications?


Not that I know of Jeff, probably because they don't come up for sale that often and it wouldn't be suitable in most applications (RWD) because of the rearward facing throttle body. I don't have an issue with this as the intercooler will sit at that end over the gearbox because its going in a transverse package. The only downside I can see are the core plugs potentially blowing out, though 1 bar isn't huge boost in the scheme of things, so they should be ok, if not I'll get new plugs tigged in or throw it way and get another one.

jeffw - 9/2/14 at 07:46 PM

It would be interesting to pressure test it....It looks like it is in two parts?

Mr C - 9/2/14 at 08:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
It would be interesting to pressure test it....It looks like it is in two parts?


One part, its solid Jeff, "moulding lines" between the top and bottom.

big_wasa - 9/2/14 at 08:12 PM

It would be great if some one started supplying bits like the cage tubes and laser cut plates. I did the make everything with the locost.

ceebmoj - 9/2/14 at 10:56 PM

What did you use to clean the block?

SilverFox - 10/2/14 at 03:12 AM

Who makes that nice looking dual idler pulley bracket?

jeffw - 10/2/14 at 06:18 AM

I presume it will be TTS


http://www.tts-performance.co.uk/#!ford-duratec-/c1amx

Mr C - 10/2/14 at 09:13 AM

As Jeff mentioned TTS make the supercharger kit.

There's no easy way to clean the block. I do an initial gunking then use brake / clutch cleaner to degrease. I also use alloy wheel cleaner (halfords cheap brand) and have used oven cleaner thoughit is very aggressive. A few wire brushes and a drill come in handy. Or you could drop it off at an engine specialist who will clean it for you.

SilverFox - 10/2/14 at 08:34 PM

Thanks guys, that is a neat bit of kit - I guess the dual idler arrangement could also be used in a conventional belt arrangement - your engine choice looks brilliant. Look forward to the MidLana install

Mr C - 10/2/14 at 09:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SilverFox
Thanks guys, that is a neat bit of kit - I guess the dual idler arrangement could also be used in a conventional belt arrangement - your engine choice looks brilliant. Look forward to the MidLana install


Thanks all and thanks Silverfox for the compliments. Using the billet idler arrangement is an expensive way of routing the belt if you are not fitting a supercharger. The most cost effective way is to use the standard idler wheels which fit with a single bolt to ensure the belt wraps around the various drive pulleys adequately.

SilverFox - 11/2/14 at 02:37 AM

I am in the process of assessing the best approach for idler and tensioner issue - you probably right. I have two issues, the first being the Ranger front cover has the "conical hump" for the fan pulley, which might interfere with path of the belt. The other is the interference between the tensioner (same as yours) and the TPS on the throttle bodies (modified GSXR).
But we'll get there.....

peter030371 - 11/2/14 at 08:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by SilverFox
I The other is the interference between the tensioner (same as yours) and the TPS on the throttle bodies (modified GSXR).


I am in the same position as you....Cosworth do a modified pulley ,click here, but having never seen one or exactly what/ how they modify it then I am loathed to potentially waste £45

My current plan, unless someone can tell me the Cosworth item fits with GSXR TB, is to have a fixed pulley in the same position and make the alternator manually adjustable....is that a bad idea?

SilverFox - 11/2/14 at 10:28 PM

Thanks for link. Not so sure that Cosworth tensioner will help, but hard to tell from pictures. It seems to be as deep as the stock Ford.
I too am looking at the two options for tensioning either via the alternator mount located on the RHS (below headers) or making a bespoke adjusting bracket for a normal pulley located in place of the proper pulley (in front of TB's). My TPS is a little larger, as I took forum advice to not use the GSXR TPS which apparently performs more like a switch making MS tuning difficult, and adapt a progressive automotive TPS

peter030371 - 24/2/14 at 02:50 PM

I don't often open the bonnet of my tintop (mazda 5) but the washer bottle was empty.....whilst doing that I noticed that the Mazda pulley tensioner is a lot smaller than the standard ford item. A few minutes on ebay and I had found this Alternator Belt Tensioner Pulley Mazda 5/3 Gates T38357 | eBay
lternator Belt Tensioner Pulley Mazda 5/3 Gates T38357 Its better than the Ford one but even so holding my GSXR bodies up to the Duratec in the workshop its still tight.....not sure I want to send £38 to find its still too big

SilverFox - 24/2/14 at 07:36 PM

Thanks for the link. That Mazda tensioner may have potential, as I note that the rear of the spring casting is almost in-line with the two upper/lower bolt holes. I need to snow shovel my out to the shop to refresh my memory on how the stock Ford compares in that regard....may take a while!

itsawindupuk - 28/2/14 at 12:17 PM

I like the exhaust manifold, do you know the diameter of the primaries?

Mr C - 2/3/14 at 10:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by itsawindupuk
I like the exhaust manifold, do you know the diameter of the primaries?


Its a cheapie off the bay probably won't last long, as they hava a tendancy to crack. it'll do until I get the car built and IVA'd, then I'll sort another one out if its no good. The primaries are 43mm OD

coyoteboy - 3/3/14 at 12:31 AM

Curious as to the choice of the rotrex, why that over a positive displacement?

Mr C - 3/3/14 at 09:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Curious as to the choice of the rotrex, why that over a positive displacement?


No real reason, right price, compact installation, self contained lubrication system, liked the power figures.

jeffw - 3/3/14 at 09:30 AM

Why would you use Positive Displacement over a Rotrex ? Roots blowers tend to be only 40–50% efficient at high boost levels; by contrast centrifugal (dynamic) superchargers are 70–85% efficient at high boost

[Edited on 3/3/14 by jeffw]

big-vee-twin - 3/3/14 at 01:17 PM

I designed my inlet manifold to make allowance for the TPS, it was manufactured by Fast Dan


[img] Focus Pulley
Focus Pulley [/img]

The GSXR TPS (2001) is a variable resistor so doesn't act like an on/off switch.

[Edited on 3/3/14 by big-vee-twin]

coyoteboy - 3/3/14 at 01:35 PM

quote:

Why would you use Positive Displacement over a Rotrex ? Roots blowers tend to be only 40–50% efficient at high boost levels; by contrast centrifugal (dynamic) superchargers are 70–85% efficient at high boost


Same reason all the OEMs use them, reliability, boost off idle, self contained lube. I was just curious what caused the choice as I'm currently twincharging my tin top and decided to go with a posi displacement (with the turbo operating at max efficiency blowing into the super operating at max efficiency) (naturally they multiply efficiencies so some drop but worth it for the off-idle boost.

Point me to a supercharger that's 85% efficient at 21psi on a 2 litre engine and doesn't have the hole at the bottom end please, I need one! FWIW in a reasonable boost level it's no problem for a posi to hit 65% efficient.


[Edited on 3/3/14 by coyoteboy]

jeffw - 3/3/14 at 02:05 PM

The Rotrex produces maximum boost at maximum revs. It is effectively a belt driven turbo. The 9.49:1 planetary gear system get the turbine upto 100K rpm and it produces 16PSI (in my C30/94). Not sure any of the Rotrex C series will do 21PSI.

coyoteboy - 3/3/14 at 08:34 PM

Yup, so not high boost or off idle, which defeats the point of a supercharger to me in my app but everyone has their own target so it's not "wrong". I just wondered what the reasoning was genuinely. Posi disp are heavy and hard to mount so I was hoping to be convinced the other way lol.

coyoteboy - 3/3/14 at 08:46 PM

Fwiw the rotrex range never gets above 72% efficient at any boost level. Compared to the Eaton which sits around 68-65% in the range I want to work, the difference is about 10 degrees in outlet temp and my intercooler will deal with that just fine! (Thread jack over, sorry! )

Mr C - 3/3/14 at 09:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Fwiw the rotrex range never gets above 72% efficient at any boost level. Compared to the Eaton which sits around 68-65% in the range I want to work, the difference is about 10 degrees in outlet temp and my intercooler will deal with that just fine! (Thread jack over, sorry! )


No problem Coyote, I'll leave you two girls to argue over efficiency charge temps etc etc, not my style, moved on from the playground a good few years ago..

As you say its not wrong,..there's more than one way to skin a cat, I'm not that clued up from a technical point of view, can't be arsed with the finer detail, if it works it works, though I understood that power delivery is pretty linear without the wallop a turbo gives you, so you can get on the loud pedal earlier exiting the bendy bits. The engine can also run higher compression 10:1, 10.5:1 at a push, so the engine isn't too sluggish at low revs. The spec isn't too far from the 620R which has the same blower and seems to go pretty well.

I didn't want the hassle of running a turbo after my last kit car which was scooby engined. I had every intention of keeping it simple but sadly I can't help myself, if its good enough for a caterham its good enough for me.

BTW I quite like the idea of a roots type blower mad max style just for the shear hell of it Looking forward to seeing how your system works, sounds mega, similar to the systems used in some group B cars Lancia, if I remember correctly. All the best with it and the build.

coyoteboy - 3/3/14 at 09:16 PM

No playground arguments involved, just technical detail tradeoffs which is just engineering. I'm an engineer, it's my job to identify the best possible solution given constraints and requirements. Can't help but apply that to normal life! It makes a fundamental difference to the power delivery and method.
I will open up a thread when I figure out where to jam the Eaton lol

Mr C - 3/3/14 at 10:01 PM

Best put it on an engine, why waste a good supercharger, l look forward to your build thread.

jeffw - 3/3/14 at 10:07 PM

The linear nature of the Rotrex package suits lightweight cars better, in my opinion, that either a Turbo with its torque spike at 3-4K rpm or a conventional, high torque at low rpm, superchargers. They specifically work well with high compression engines and make them drive like 'Super' NA engines and not a boosted engine.

Mr C - 9/3/14 at 10:00 PM

Managed to fit the gearbox to the engine this afternoon, a Mazda 3 MPS box to a Ford Duratec. Clutch needs a little work but no big deal. The standard ford boxes self destruct after 200bhp this should be good for double that.





[Edited on 9/3/14 by Mr C]