Mr Whippy
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 01:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
estimated bills are very common, so high this time, but when its read properly, it'll be very cheap. don't sell your bike yet
think 2k and you almost there, no I'm not kidding either. 4 years of made up estimates with it turns out no actual meter readings  hope
they sack him
Kick up a fuss about it and if necessary contact the regulator, there is a good chance they'll write off a fair bit of it then as it's
their fault. When we got married and my wife left her flat, the final bill was £250 'cos they'd messed up their billing system and not
taken any money for the previous 12 months. She complained and they reduced it to £80. She paid the £80 and then was chased for £72 (someone keyed in
the wrong figure when they recorded the cheque), when she pointed this out they sent her a £30 bunch of flowers!
interesting cheers, they have already admitted the meter reader guy had not been doing his job correctly and I have never missed or been late paying a
bill. I understand the idea of using estimates but it appears there has only once in the past been an actual meter reading which is why the bill is so
totally ridiculous now.
[Edited on 3/12/09 by Mr Whippy]
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iscmatt
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 02:00 PM |
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I have learnt very early as a student that estimated bills are hugely over estimated! Whenever I get a bill I check there numbers against mine on the
meter, usually they are always over, give them a call, give them the correct reading and get another bill with the revised about which is always
reduced from the previous bill.
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 06:35 PM |
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i think mr W is saying that they have UNDER estimated for 4 years, and now they have taken a reading they want a lot of wonga from him.
I thought they had a legal obligation to take a real reading every year?
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smart51
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 06:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
A Low energy Bulb is ok but it is basically a prettry strip light. Very inefficient for a couple of minutes untill it wams up.
Did you now the policy of switching off strip lights in offices to save electricity is horse ****. A strip light uses very littel energy to run but a
bucketload to switch on!.. so leave in ON!
that was true 30 or 40 years ago. Modern strip light bulbs run up very quickly. If you're going to turn them off for a few seconds really,
you're better off than leaving them on.
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smart51
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 06:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
My Oven is 10,200 Watts or 10.2Kw
Thats 102 x 100watt lightbulbs worth per hour!
Really? Is it a walk in oven? Mine is rated at 2000 W or 2kW. Remember that it will be on for 10 minutes to warm up then will switch on and off to
maintain temperature. Average power is quite a bit less.
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MikeR
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 07:00 PM |
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Mines 15 amp errr, errr, 15 * 240v = 3600w. The oven has a something like 500 degree option to basically cremate all the grease in it - hence the need
for the large amp power supply.
Only problem is it locks the door when its that hot and will only let it be opened once its below 250 degrees otherwise i'd be using it for
flywheel ring gears and the like.
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 07:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
My Oven is 10,200 Watts or 10.2Kw
Thats 102 x 100watt lightbulbs worth per hour!
Really? Is it a walk in oven? Mine is rated at 2000 W or 2kW. Remember that it will be on for 10 minutes to warm up then will switch on and off to
maintain temperature. Average power is quite a bit less.
Here is an interesting website which shows actual measured consumption figures for various appliances. It shows that an electric oven uses
approximately 2kWh over the 2 hours required for the Sunday roast. Mine has a 20 Amp fuse so I guess it is about 10A max or 2400w. Certainly nothing
like 10.2kW!
On the other hand, a single 100W bulb running for 8 hours per night, 7 days per week will consume 5.6kWh over the week. Even a 40W table lamp would
consume 2.24kWh over the week and there could easily be several of these (or equivalent) through the house.
Efficient lighting will save you much more on energy costs than eating raw food and will probably save you from food poisoning at the same time! 
Craig.
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 09:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
My Oven is 10,200 Watts or 10.2Kw
Thats 102 x 100watt lightbulbs worth per hour!
Really? Is it a walk in oven? Mine is rated at 2000 W or 2kW. Remember that it will be on for 10 minutes to warm up then will switch on and off to
maintain temperature. Average power is quite a bit less.
Here is an interesting website which shows actual measured consumption figures for various appliances. It shows that an electric oven uses
approximately 2kWh over the 2 hours required for the Sunday roast. Mine has a 20 Amp fuse so I guess it is about 10A max or 2400w. Certainly nothing
like 10.2kW!
On the other hand, a single 100W bulb running for 8 hours per night, 7 days per week will consume 5.6kWh over the week. Even a 40W table lamp would
consume 2.24kWh over the week and there could easily be several of these (or equivalent) through the house.
Efficient lighting will save you much more on energy costs than eating raw food and will probably save you from food poisoning at the same time!
Craig.
10.2kW is quite possible, but it's likely to be for a combined cooker - the oven, possibly a grill and the usual four rings all on at once.
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 09:31 PM |
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i fitted a 14kW oven a few weeks back (110cm all electric range), however as said, thats a total rating, not for an individual cavity with a roast in
it.
I think my largest home energy demand is the heating and gas fire. I have a hot shower in bursts (turning it off whilst soaping etc) so it runs for
about 2 mins all in, which will be fairly cheap. Certainly better than the wife's bath!
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 09:44 PM |
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Did anyone watch the "Bang goes the theory" program tonight on BBC1? They were doing an experiment where they powered a
"typical" family home using nothing but cyclists, all 80 of them!
According to this program, the biggest villain of energy consumption was indeed the filament light bulb and to demonstrate this, they cooked a chicken
(properly) in an insulated box using just two 60W bulbs for 90 minutes. They said that 90% of the power is returned as heat.
Interesting program, worth a look on iPlayer if you have a spare hour.
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JoelP
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 10:07 PM |
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I suppose the key is the insulation, cooking is just maintaining a raised temperature, so if you can stop any heat escaping, you can get things cooked
very cheaply.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 10:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
According to this program, the biggest villain of energy consumption was indeed the filament light bulb and to demonstrate this, they cooked a chicken
(properly) in an insulated box using just two 60W bulbs for 90 minutes. They said that 90% of the power is returned as heat.
It's worse than 90%, tungsten filament lamps are very inefficient, a 60W lamp converts just over 2% of the electricity into light.
That said I simply don't believe you can properly cook a chicken in 90 minutes with a 120W heater, no matter how much insulation you use.
[Edited on 3/12/09 by MikeRJ]
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 10:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
According to this program, the biggest villain of energy consumption was indeed the filament light bulb and to demonstrate this, they cooked a chicken
(properly) in an insulated box using just two 60W bulbs for 90 minutes. They said that 90% of the power is returned as heat.
It's worse than 90%, tungsten filament lamps are very inefficient, a 60W lamp converts just over 2% of the electricity into light.
That said I simply don't believe you can properly cook a chicken in 90 minutes with a 120W heater, no matter how much insulation you use.
[Edited on 3/12/09 by MikeRJ]
Have you watched the program? The insulation looked like something from the underside of the space shuttle! I was convinced by it although I might not
have been so keen to eat the meat at the very centre of the chicken as it was probably still a bit pink.
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iank
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| posted on 3/12/09 at 11:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
A Low energy Bulb is ok but it is basically a prettry strip light. Very inefficient for a couple of minutes untill it wams up.
Did you now the policy of switching off strip lights in offices to save electricity is horse ****. A strip light uses very littel energy to run but a
bucketload to switch on!.. so leave in ON!
[Edited on 3/1212/09 by mad4x4]
I used to believe that, but recently found (along with the maths to demonstrate) that it's an urban myth that's been around since the
70's.
They do take a lot more current (inrush) when they are starting, but it's only around 5-10seconds worth of running time if you work it out. So
if you're leaving the room for a few minutes turning them off saves some money. Personally I hate the things as they are so dim for a few
minutes after switch on and I can see some flicker if I see them out of the corner of an eye.
Big companies leave them on mainly to allow the cctv security cameras to work, and lets the security guards to wander about without inconvenience.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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02GF74
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| posted on 4/12/09 at 07:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Personally I hate the things as they are so dim for a few minutes after switch on and I can see some flicker if I see them out of the corner of an
eye.
I find it as positive advantage, especially in the bathroom as they let your eyes adjust. .... but the ones I fitted to my sisters living room are
very very slow to get up to temperature, must be at least 10 minutes.
to avoid the flicker, just blink your eyes very quickly in sync with the bulkb. 
[Edited on 4/12/09 by 02GF74]
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Humbug
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| posted on 4/12/09 at 06:00 PM |
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Re the heating aspect of old style lights - I read somewhere that installing low energy bulbs doesn't save as much energy as you might think
because you have to turn up the heating a notch to compensate for the loss of heat output from the filament bulbs.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 4/12/09 at 06:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Humbug
Re the heating aspect of old style lights - I read somewhere that installing low energy bulbs doesn't save as much energy as you might think
because you have to turn up the heating a notch to compensate for the loss of heat output from the filament bulbs.
A couple of hundred watts of heating doesn't go far in most homes so the difference will be very small (especialy as a lamp is in a very poor
place to provide room heat).
Then again if you had air con it could save you even more money in summer.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 12:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
A Low energy Bulb is ok but it is basically a prettry strip light. Very inefficient for a couple of minutes untill it wams up.
Did you now the policy of switching off strip lights in offices to save electricity is horse ****. A strip light uses very littel energy to run but a
bucketload to switch on!.. so leave in ON!
[Edited on 3/1212/09 by mad4x4]
I used to believe that, but recently found (along with the maths to demonstrate) that it's an urban myth that's been around since the
70's.
They do take a lot more current (inrush) when they are starting, but it's only around 5-10seconds worth of running time if you work it out. So
if you're leaving the room for a few minutes turning them off saves some money. Personally I hate the things as they are so dim for a few
minutes after switch on and I can see some flicker if I see them out of the corner of an eye.
Big companies leave them on mainly to allow the cctv security cameras to work, and lets the security guards to wander about without inconvenience.
Yeah Mythbusters did it, and iirc they concluded that it's only worth leaving any light on if you're going to be out of the room for
something like 0.3 seconds. Whatever the actual time was it wasn't really feasible to leave them on.
Plus I wander around in the dark, bloody pansy guards in their warm offices!
quote:
Originally posted by iscmatt
I have learnt very early as a student that estimated bills are hugely over estimated! Whenever I get a bill I check there numbers against mine on the
meter, usually they are always over, give them a call, give them the correct reading and get another bill with the revised about which is always
reduced from the previous bill.
I really hope so, they've been unable to read our gas meter for years!
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 05:22 AM |
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whippys personal power station
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p8469/Bang_Goes_the_Theory_The_Human_Power_Station/
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