Irony
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 08:39 AM |
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OT: Work Office Management Problems
This way off topic but I need some advice. We have serious management problems at work and I don't know what to do about it.
I work for a busy company that has some amazing staff and is a very good company but I feel we have serious management issues. We have a Managing
Director at the top and below him are the Project Managers, Production Manager, Logistics Manager and the Design Manager (me). A job comes in and the
project managers organise every aspect of the job and give that information out to the rest of the business. The job gets designed, manufactured,
packed onto lorries and a team of guys build it onsite. Throughout this process the project managers are the keystone of each job. Its becoming
apparent however that they are not doing their jobs correctly. Things are missed, not correct or forgotten, paperwork is not done and some jobs not
invoiced! And so our clients are complaining. The MD seems unwilling to properly discipline the project managers for their constant baffoonery. The
MD is a brilliant business man and has a true gift for obtaining new clients but his management 'style' I feel has been left behind by the
size of our rapidly expanding business. He is interested in getting new work, networking and pushing the businesses boundries. He is not really
interested in sorting out his staffing issues. He takes a lot of time off (perhaps 12 weeks a year) and I think he would like to take more time off
to spend with his children. I don't blame him for this at all but the business needs him here.
Basically how can I tell my Managing Director that he needs to properly discipline his staff, enforce office rules (like doing the paperwork) and
spend more time in the office to sort out management issues???
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swanny
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 09:18 AM |
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Basically how can I tell my Managing Director that he needs to properly discipline his staff, enforce office rules (like doing the paperwork) and
spend more time in the office to sort out management issues???
the bit you missed off the end here goes...."Without getting fired"......
How about getting someone else to do it for you? The Uni i work at runs an executive education course (taking professionals rather than your average
student) onto special MBA courses. as part of the course they are sent out in groups of 4-5 to work at a company for a week and produce a report at
the end of it. This may show up some of the problems you have and you might be able to get his support to do it by appealing to his desire to expand
the business, and transition it to the next level.
Its a very tricky thing and the transition from small business to medium (in this case not a numerical definition but a transition to a medium sized
mentality (process and structure on a different level) is a very compex and dangerous one. Ultimately though it sounds like the next step for the
business if its to succeed.
paul
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HowardB
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 09:20 AM |
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subtly suggest the IoD, Institute of Directors to him,....
It has been known to work wonders
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again  and goes zoom)
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Irony
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 09:31 AM |
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Thanks Paul for the response. Yes your correct about the 'without getting fired' part. Maybe some sort of outside help may be in order.
The problem is centred around the fact that we have doubled turnover in 2-3 years but at the expense of profit. We are profitable but the mistakes
made lead this to be very slight.
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 09:44 AM |
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DO you 'know' any of the customers? It could be that it will take them to shake his cage, if there is a possibility of losing business
through incompetent staff then surely he will act?
Just my 2p worth.
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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ReMan
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 09:45 AM |
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Could it not be approached from a process angle?
Sold from a perspective of the customer experience
Whereby each stage of the process for each job is checked and signed off by the departments. Building into this, that if at each stage there are key
details that are an absolte must ( a customer PO number for instance) then unless the manadatory details are present and correct, the job does not
progress to the next stage.
This approach may build in the necessity for accuracy and responsibility without it specifically pointing the finger at any particular peopls.But,
if/when it does go wrong and the company is losing money it will be very obvios and wher it is failing. At which point then the knife can go in!
[Edited on 15/9/11 by ReMan]
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Irony
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 10:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
DO you 'know' any of the customers? It could be that it will take them to shake his cage, if there is a possibility of losing business
through incompetent staff then surely he will act?
Just my 2p worth.
This is a very valid point. This might work but I need a customer who I know well.
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Irony
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 10:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
Could it not be approached from a process angle?
Sold from a perspective of the customer experience
Whereby each stage of the process for each job is checked and signed off by the departments. Building into this, that if at each stage there are key
details that are an absolte must ( a customer PO number for instance) then unless the manadatory details are present and correct, the job does not
progress to the next stage.
Sadly this won't work. We do have these processes in place but often in very busy periods they are ignored and verbal communication takes over.
I have tried to say things like 'if you don't do the paperwork I won't do the work' but it doesn't work. On Monday I
received a telling off (by the MD) for doing work on the basis of a verbal request from a project manager, on Tuesday I received a second telling off
(again by the MD) for refusing to do work without the correct paperwork. When I brought up the previous telling off he told me not to be so pedantic
and each situation needs to be judged in its own right.
Pointing out to your MD that he has just contradicted himself is never a good option.
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coozer
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 10:56 AM |
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I worked in a similar job environment, all the top knobs were very pally with each other and didn't let any of the minions into the
'club'.
I found that ignoring these people, just say passing on the relevant information, and knuckling down to my role. I would then point out their errors
as they crossed my path.
Do your job to the best and take home the money. Forget the rest.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 11:44 AM |
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were always looking for designers here in gainsboro..............
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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bi22le
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 12:22 PM |
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It sounds to me that you work in specialised manufacturing, the same as me.
We have \ had similar problems in the past and it is due to the unique situation that you produce your own products and have no other companies that
rely on your paperwork, you also have massive flexibility including to prioritise jobs.
The reason verbal instruction is probably preferred is due to time constraints and ease (laziness) but is probably triggered due to mistakes. Time is
also squeezed due to the growth of the company. As the company grows it is key to have processes reviewed and renewed as holes and gaps appear in the
work flow of the company otherwise the company will not grow further or not sustain the current workload. It sounds like your in this loop. The MD
wants business growth and that is his focus but the gap down to the next person is too big to review the processes (top led growth). Investment
(training and staff) or a general shuffle of current staff is needed to change the architecture of the company and make sure there is a strong close
link between all of the working levels in your company. Feed back and knowledge flows both up and down the company tree.
My thoughts:
Does the MD actually acknowledge the holes and value their seriousness? If not he needs to be informed. They may not actually be that serious (bad
practice and bad for business) in the grand scheme of things, or he may have a plan that is in hand.
What’s his long term plan? More staff including internal promotion is always good when company processes are concerned. Could you not do this new role
and let somebody else fill your empty shoes?
What’s your long term plan? If you like and value your company \ job then do something about it. If not then sit back and do your 9-5.
I find that good engineers are not always the best business minded, they love the nitty gritty to much. Thats where business partners and external
advisors are an option.
I hope it all works out for you. Its all exciting. At least your in business at this hard time.
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Irony
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 12:56 PM |
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Thankyou for the concise replies. The MD does realise that these issues are happening and he has the knowledge and ability to rectify these problems.
But all to soon he is off for another week and things slowly slip back to where they were before. The business is becoming more and more effiecient
(bad speller) but the turnover is increasing faster than we can cope. Traditionally we never ever turned business away no matter what but with 50%
increase in turnover last year and 20% (approx) this year we improving things slower than we are expanding, which means things are always in mess.
Bizzle - your right with nearly everything you say. There is a big drop off of power from the MD down. I am in the group of people who are in the
next step down but so are the people who are essentially abusing the system. I can't disicipline these people myself because I don't have
the power.
My long term plan would hopefully to continue to work here and continue to help build the business like I have done for nearly ten years. When I
started there was'nt a design department and I worked 'doing some design on the side' and the rest of the time in the workshops.
Now there are two full time designers underneath me. I have a place here in the future I would like to think.
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jossey
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 01:59 PM |
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ive sent this to a mate of mine who works in proccess management who ive asked to look at it.
can you U2U your email addy....
Thanks
David Johnson
Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.
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D Beddows
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 02:14 PM |
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I used to work for a company exactly like that, the designers got grief about everything from client problems to 10 tek screws being missing on site,
all the boss cared about was getting in more business (3 designers and 6 salesmen....) and all the contract managers cared about was getting the jobs
done as quickly as possible cutting as many corners as they could in the process. All in all the most miserable 10 months of my working life  I
just handed in my notice in the end because it really wasn't worth the grief - never regretted it for a second even though I was unemployed for
nearly a year afterwards.......... I appreciate that probably isn't an option for you 
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 06:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Irony
Sadly this won't work. We do have these processes in place but often in very busy periods they are ignored and verbal communication takes over.
I have tried to say things like 'if you don't do the paperwork I won't do the work' but it doesn't work. On Monday I
received a telling off (by the MD) for doing work on the basis of a verbal request from a project manager, on Tuesday I received a second telling off
(again by the MD) for refusing to do work without the correct paperwork. When I brought up the previous telling off he told me not to be so pedantic
and each situation needs to be judged in its own right.
Pointing out to your MD that he has just contradicted himself is never a good option.
Well he needs to make a decision, does the paperwork matter or not?
If it does then you can't do the work without the paperwork, it's a matter of your pride in the job and seeing as it's his life then
he should have the most pride in it.
Maybe tell him anonymously as a worker and then deny all knowledge of it
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v8kid
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 07:32 PM |
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I've been in both camps. For 15 years I was a Project Engineer and later I became a Design Manager for 10 years in a new business start up.
There is a continual conflict between design and construction as they involve completely different skill-sets. Make sure your facts are correct by
stopping and pretending to look in to the situation as a different person.
Yes Project Managers (Engineers) foul up sometimes but also sometimes they save the day by making a slightly unsuitable design work. So your MD has to
decide on the balance point and in doing this he may have more info available than you. Also he will have a third, different, skill-set that is unique
to MD's to enable him to make these business decisions.
If the boy (MD) has done good so far it would be rash to challenge him ( make no mistake this is what you are doing) unless your facts are objective -
including those inevitably of your own departments failings - however excusable.
Time for reflection if you value my opinion. But then of course you may not
Cheers!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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ReMan
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 07:41 PM |
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Now I don't know what the product service or company is, but, not dissimilarly to the suggestions about a customer feedback directly, how about
taking it a step further: What if... There was a quality issue with the product/service that led to: at best a case for damages out of failure to
provide the product to the necessary spec” or at worst court case for damages and product liability for serious injury or death due to failings to
adhere to the "relevant minimum" standards. How is it going to look when the MD goes to jail for corporate manslaughter out of a failure
to keep or promote any proper records to demonstrate any safety/quality system and therefore gross negligence beyond the failure of the product
itself?
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Fred W B
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| posted on 15/9/11 at 07:53 PM |
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I'm also in engineering, and work for a manufacturing company that has gone from being a newcomer in a particular field, to being the world
leader in that field in market share and technology (over a period of 25 years) and now we are fighting up and coming Chinese competitors.
Over that period we have had to deal with many similar problems, for different reasons, and had to implement many different systems and controls. Hell
in the beginning we were on drawing boards and with hand written bill of materials. I was the drawing office. Now we have 16 CAD stations. We went
from maybe 200 people to almost a 1000 at one stage.
What I have learnt in all that time is that in order to change something, or implement an new system, you need buy in from the very top. If the main
man wants it to happen, it will. If not, you will always battle. I have also seen this at other companies I have worked with over the years.
So your first step will need to be to teach/convince/show benefits of the new discipline/changes to the main man, or you always remain frustrated.
Edit - more posts above as I typed.
I might add, while we do need systems, their are always times when you need to move quickly to satisfy a customer request or rectify a mistake. The
trick is to minimise these occasions, and have the usual system keeping things going so that you have the capacity to deal with the out of the
ordinary
Cheers
Fred W B
[Edited on 15/9/11 by Fred W B]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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