mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 04:19 PM |
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School seige Russia
I think there was no other way out. If the security forces had made compromises, this would have happened again. I am sorry for the dead.
What a sick world we find ourselves in. A sad sad day for humanity
[Edited on 3-9-04 by mangogrooveworkshop]
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The Shootist
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 posted on 3/9/04 at 05:27 PM |
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Politicly incorrect, but...
...when Israel had the same problem, they encouraged teachers to carry guns.
One of the school shooting incedents here in the US, about a year ago was stopped by a teacher who disarmed the deranged student. What is rarely heard
in the press was that the teached went to his car, which was parked off-campus, and disarmed the student at gunpoint.
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Cita
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 06:31 PM |
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Correct or not correct,that scum was shooting at children trying to escape!!!
One thing's for sure,you dont f"#k with those Russian anti-terror brigades!
One can argue till the end of days if it is/was the right thing to do but since human being is still unable to predict future,it's probably the
only solution.
Sad, very sad for the innocent people who died but no sympathy whatsoever for the scumbag hostage takers.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 06:37 PM |
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It is a very strange religion that encourages and condones this type of action
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Peteff
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 07:23 PM |
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It's not all a religious thing.
It's also political. The Chechens want their own country and the Russians want it too. Their methods are completely amoral, they seem to be
willing to go to any length to achieve their political goal but always manage to turn the world feeling against themselves.
http://poli.vub.ac.be/publi/crs/eng/Vol5/lionu.htm
Nobody can condone their methods but we could try to understand their reasons.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Cita
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 08:50 PM |
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Who wants to listen to the reason of those who kill children, running for their life, by firing from a rooftop?
Can you imagine Pete what those scumbags are capable of doing once they run their own country?
They just have proven that they are not worth having an independent state.
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Peteff
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 09:28 PM |
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According to the BBC reporter it was inevitable that anyone leaving the building would have been caught in the crossfire between the rebels and the
troops. Noone can agree with the killing of innocents. The Russians took the only way left open to them in the eyes of some but others are not so
generous in their view. The page Mangos' quote came from shows the varied opinions of Russian people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3625696.stm
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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sgraber
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 09:55 PM |
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It's truly one of the most horrific tragedies. It seems unimaginable that those children were forced to stand for 3 days, unable to go to the
restroom, forced to remove their clothing then shot down from the back as they fled and others burned to death... I cry for them.
Words can't describe the feelings of extreme hate I have towards the type of people that do this. Towards terrorists in general.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 10:30 PM |
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agreed.
I dont blame the russians for this. Apparently no one had water. People die after 3 days without water, so something had to happen in the next 24
hrs.
BBC reports that the whole thing started by a bomb the terrorists taped to the roof falling off, hitting the ground, and exploding.
for terrorists, they didnt seem to have much of a plan, or competence. Hope there is a nice little hot space in hell for them.
atb
steve
If you want to feel particularly depressed, look up the lyrics for chris rea's 'tell me theres a heaven'.
as your lazy gits Ill do it for you
The little girl she said to me
What are these things that I can see
Each night when I come home from school
And mama calls me in for tea
Oh every night a baby dies
And every night a mama cries
What makes those men do what they do
To make that person black and blue
Grandpa says their happy now
They sit with God in paradise
With angels' wings and still somehow
It makes me feel like ice
Tell me there's a heaven
Tell me that it's true
Tell me there's a reason
Why I'm seeing what I do
Tell me there's a heaven
Where all those people go
Tell me they're all happy now
Papa tell me that it's so
So do I tell her that it's true
That there's a place for me and you
Where hungry children smile and say
We wouldn't have no other way
That every painful crack of bones
Is a step along the way
Every wrong done is a game plan
To that great and joyful day
And I'm looking at the father and the son
And I'm looking at the mother and the daughter
And I'm watching them in tears of pain
And I'm watching them suffer
Don't tell that little girl
Tell me
Tell me there's a heaven
Tell me that it's true
Tell me there's a reason
Why I'm seeing what I do
Tell me there's a heaven
Where all those people go
Tell me they're all happy now
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thekafer
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 10:41 PM |
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Anyone who would kill children (lets face it, there is NO cause that justifies THIS) for any cause has absolutely no shred of humanity left in them..
They deserve to be killed NOT LISTENED TO as one BBC World reporter I heard on NPR was whinning.. My heart aches for the famillies and victims of this
EVIL act.
Time to put an end to this bu11shit.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy...
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 3/9/04 at 10:48 PM |
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sometimes you have to listen and compromise to stop such things.
there would still be a war in northern ireland if it were not for dialog.
This also involved letting convicted murderers out of prison after VERY short sentances in order to create the peace.
Fighting doesnt always work, and victories are rarely total, ie the current war against terrorism, vietnam and korea.
Thats not to say the NI wont turn crap again.....
atb
steve
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Hellfire
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 12:13 AM |
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My children and I watched the seige and ensuing chaos unfold on this evenings news. My daughter turned to me, with tears in her eyes and her bottom
lip trembling and simply said "Why are they killing children Dad?"
Without knowing what the kidnappers realistically hoped to achieve - is there an answer... I think not.
Our heartfelt wishes extend to the suffering.
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spunky
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 08:13 AM |
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No compromise, no dialogue, no arbitration.
As the death toll rises and more details of the horror emerge I believe Putin must crush these 'rebels' once and for all.
As Cita rightly says, imagine what these people are capable of if they are given there own little country to run.
'One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter' but never when the massacre of children is involved, they are just sick, inhuman
individuals that need to be put down.
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 08:35 AM |
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i agree its a terrible deed, but at the same time it is wrong to tar all chechens with the same brush - may will resent this act as much as the rest
of the world, maybe even more because it has been done in the name of their freedom.
Its just a shame that the special forces didnt have a plan in place when they moved in. I suspect SAS would've been planning the entry points
and studying maps for days on the off chance that they would have to move in quickly. maybe when the spokesman said they had no plan he just meant
that they werent intending to move in then, not that they literally had no plan or coordination.
And regarding Islam, though i am as inclined as any other to condemn the whole religion for its shameful teachings on Jihad, there are many peaceful
Muslims. Most of the terror acts seem to stem from paranoia, as they believe we are a threat to their religion. And maybe we are now, as the world
runs out of patience (patients?).
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Cita
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 10:13 AM |
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Without wanting to start a discussion about religion and Islam in particular we cannot go around the fact that most of the terror these days comes
from muslim fundamentalists.From Iraq to Indonesia over Soedan and Ethiopia and the U.S. to Europe.
This action has taken the muslim fundamentalists one step further in their discovery of how far they can go with the western morality.
If,and this is a big if,Islam is the basis which justify this kind of actions than Islam is a wrong religion.
If the terrorists use the Islam to achieve their own ego dreams than they should not be protected by the Islam laws.
Get rid of this scum as soon as possible cause if not it will cause future problems which might not be solvable with paper and talking!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 11:27 AM |
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Trouble is, if you read the Koran (and I have read a translation) all it talks about is peace, love thy neighbour no matter what religion, and so
forth.
You get nutters in every religion, creed, whatever.
There are a few christian fundamentalists who scare the hell out of me...
rgds,
David
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 01:18 PM |
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point taken david.
I wonder if islam has their equiv of jess yates and thora hird...
atb
steve
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Cita
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 02:38 PM |
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I dont think we can talk of "a few muslim fundamentalists" worldwide at this moment.
As i said before it is becomming a worlwide problem and if Islam is to blaim for it remains to be seen.
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Peteff
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 07:07 PM |
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I wonder if islam has their equiv of jess yates and thora hird..
Abu Hamza and Osama bin Laden spring to mind. We have these over here:-
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/features/?id=9708=9708&format=0
They think the US and British governments are out to destroy their religion, I think they have too high a view of the Governments' ideals if
they think they are in any way motivated by religion.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 08:56 PM |
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just watching news, had a smile on my face since i got home from a gr8 day at donnington, the headlines wiped that off,
what else is there to say, i like others on here am a parent, i feel for them all.
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 11:16 PM |
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I was working at the Gleneagles hotel the day the nutter walked into the local school down the road and did his evil deed. The local contractors heard
by phone what had happened at thier kids school. They cried running to their vans to get along to see if thier kids were involved. That was a sad day.
I never thought that humanity could stoop any lower..... then 911......and now this.... This has shown how low they can go.EVIL .
This place in Russia is not a very rich place its people have hard lives and the kids are thier center of life, scum came and took it all away.
There is no words to describe this SAD act.
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thekafer
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| posted on 5/9/04 at 12:16 AM |
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I suspect that we will find out that there are people with no tie to Chechnya what so ever involved with this bu11shit! They WILL have ties to other
terrorist groups like al-quaeda and come from our friends Saudi Arabia.. Of course,the press will have they same difficulty reporting this as they
have with calling these idiots terrorist! Just a hunch,we'll see.....
P.S You LOSE the right to be LISTENED to when you shoot people,let alone children in the back!!!
Update:
My son just handed me the paper that says "..known middle eastern terrorist were among the the dead.." These people dont want thier own
countries and head scarf laws repealled(or they will behead someone) They want exactly what was described in Bin Ladens Letter To The Western
World...World war three....For a copy go to GlennBeck.com..
[Edited on 5/9/04 by thekafer]
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy...
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