Westy1994
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 06:37 PM |
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There goes 300 thousand, I can see this getting half a million at this rate, its only been running for just over 30 hours.
Agreed , they won't get in again, or at least I would like to hope they don't. We never voted either of them in anyway, last election was
a farce - I do hope the rules have changed for such outcomes.
I know where my X is going next polling day 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 06:49 PM |
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I grew up in an era where the Conservative party had moderate social policies but believed in defending the country. Then somehow under Mrs Thatcher
the class war adopted a scorched earth policy creating an industrial waste land, then for a while a sanity if grey lacklustre returned. Then
Labour took over for while with Tony Blair acting like a Thatcher clone while the Conservative party stabbed each other in the back.
In the era of Labour rule the Conservative party while they had an excellent selection of potential electable leadership candidates seemingly
deliberately chose leaders that the voters of this country could never elect.
But now we have a Conservative party with Lord Snooty Dave and the Eton massif running country backed up by Liberal party that is more
spineless than an earth worm God help us all.
We have country that can't feed itself, can't make anything and can't even defend our shores unless we go nuclear.
If I lived south of the border I would be very worried about next years coming Scottish referendum, if Scotland chooses independence the
English political scene will lurch so far to the right it will make Czarist Russia look like a meeting of a play group mothers.
[Edited on 2/4/13 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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mark chandler
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 07:04 PM |
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Kind of moved off topic, however....
If we had stayed under labour where would we be now, like Greece ?
Gordon Brown flogged all the gold at a knock down price, when the new government asked where all the money was they were given a blank sheet of paper
and told its all gone.
We are in a global recession, labour strikes, poor quality products and failure to move with the times have killed the industry whatever government
was in power would have suffered with this.
Labour/liberal ultimately leads to recession
Conservative comes to power and things turn around, at least we are stable now.
Have a look at a graph of boom and bust against governments in power for the last 100 years, I'm glad we do not have the useless labour in power
now or things would be much much worse...
[Edited on 2/4/13 by mark chandler]
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Westy1994
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 07:07 PM |
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@ BT
Again agreed, I have never bothered with politics much in the past, I guess because when you are young it seems of no interest, but the older I get
the more it starts to be a real concern. I perhaps wish I had taken more notice of this back in my 20's and 30's and not simply been
herded about like everyone else .
[Edited on 2/4/13 by Westy1994]
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spaximus
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 07:24 PM |
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Having read a lot on here I think that many have got it wrong. My parents remember when people really had nothing. The NHS was formed and women with
prolapsed wombs were waiting in lines for the chance to have free medical care. And when benifits came in they were all happy as at last no one
starved but there was a distinction. People in work were better off than those who could not work, there was no expectation that those not in work had
the same as those who worked.
Fast forward to now and people are making a career out of benefits, not what the system was ever designed for or capable of sustaining. Now if people
read the article carefully what IDS said was that after all the bills were paid he could manage on £53 per week. This is supported by some on here who
after paying their own bills have similar amounts left after working 40 hours and many others that report the same, but why let facts get in the
way!
There are jobs about, take for example Linconshire and East Anglia, there are hunderds of jobs but the locals refuse to do them instead they have
Poles and many others who have moved here willing to do them, if those locals had less generous benefits they would take the jobs, yes I know it is
hard work in the fields but there are many fit and capable of doing that work.
The big problem is that people are brought up to expect cars, TV, sky holidays even if they do not work. Until this cycle is broken the country is on
a down hill course.
Labour spent more than we had it is simple economics and have jumped onto blaming the bankers for all the woes of the world. True they share the blame
but the regulators employed by Labour did not work and whilst the banks were doing well they took the glory as well as the massive tax the bankers
paid. Remember on a Million pound bonus over £500k went straight to the tax man, we need more of that sort of tax take not less.
I hear too many times Thatcher being blamed but she was in power 23 years ago plenty time for others to take a share of the blame and to change
things.
Unless you all want to see the UK decsend like Greece, Cyprus,italy and France were the answer was to tax the rich, so much so they are leaving and
the tax take has dropped by a huge amount, we have to have hard times to get things on an even keel.
I am old enough to have seen this many times before, The Conservatives make cuts to balance the books, everyone gets fed up Labour get back in and
spend like crazy and the cycle goes around only interuppted by Wars and the inevitable recession that comes from spending to excess.
I have a friend who is very close to a Labour politician, they were happy to loose the last election as many of the cuts that are taking place were
planned by them and they knew they would hurt. This way the Tories may well become unelectable for may years to come but Labour will not reverse any
of the things that have happened. They did not reopen mines, they did not renationalised any of the utilites they objected to when in opposition, they
did nothing about immigration, the railways were still being subsidized by them etc etc.
The bottom line is we need the cuts and yes it will be hard for many, but for many that is what is needed to get them off the dole. Don't get
sucked in by the headlines read widely and try to base action on facts not fiction. As the economy grows, which it will, jobs will be created.
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JoelP
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 07:31 PM |
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+1 to spaximus.
America, due to their daft political system, had not managed any serious austerity, and their debt has reached 17 trillion dollars. This is totally
unpayable.
There are some of the opinion that world debt is beyond what can be worked off and mass default is how it may end. Obviously no one wants to be the
first to admit that.
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Westy1994
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 07:42 PM |
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spaximus, may I ask how you would react to , say for example, that due ill heath you hadn't worked for sometime ( could be years if you like)
and despite having sent more job applications out than you had had hot dinners you never even got an interview, you have applied for jobs that you
were overqualified for as well, how would you cope on seeing your income drop every year. I understand your points, but for the folks that are unable
to even get considered in the first place for work, its tough I imagine.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 08:03 PM |
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Having good benefits is a by product of having a strong industry, the welfare state was bought in by conservatives when England was at its high
point.
For industry to blossom we need stable government and fiscal policies that encourage growth, not strangle those that do well and then the work will
come and unemployment will drop.
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Westy1994
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 08:08 PM |
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Mark, what's your take on my made up scenario above, I'm sure those folks exist out there.
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spaximus
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 08:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Westy1994
spaximus, may I ask how you would react to , say for example, that due ill heath you hadn't worked for sometime ( could be years if you like)
and despite having sent more job applications out than you had had hot dinners you never even got an interview, you have applied for jobs that you
were overqualified for as well, how would you cope on seeing your income drop every year. I understand your points, but for the folks that are unable
to even get considered in the first place for work, its tough I imagine.
I have had three long term bouts of unemployment in my life which have meant changes to make things happen. After the second miner strike I move to
Bristol from Yorkshire to find work, which I did. On each of these occasions I have taken any job to make ends meet, being honest with people and
taking jobs that were unsocial hours so I could find work elsewhere.
As for illness, it is a problem but again the system is not geared to help you find suitable employment that now matches your health. However
employers need to look past the CV. I took on a guy in London whose CV made me feel inadequate, he came from the city and was burnt out. He took a job
as a driver and was happy and one of my best staff I have ever had. He knew he would never get back to where he was so did what he could.
There will always be people who deserve a break and a large proportion of those will be affected, but the proportion of those who are unwilling, not
unable is the concern.
I am told the employment service offer retraining and support for people who want to learn new skills but you have to ask as the job centres are not
equipped to give support easily, they just need you in and out.
For those out of work, as an employer I look for what people are trying to do instead of sitting at home, voulentry work for example shows a
willingness and character. I wish you all good luck in finding work.
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whitestu
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
After the second miner strike I move to Bristol from Yorkshire to find work, which I did
Isn't that the wrong direction? Yorkshire wasn't exactly a jobs hotspot after the miners strike!
Stu
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slingshot2000
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 08:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by whitestu
quote:
After the second miner strike I move to Bristol from Yorkshire to find work, which I did
Isn't that the wrong direction? Yorkshire wasn't exactly a jobs hotspot after the miners strike!
Stu
But moving SOUTH to Bristol was surely moving AWAY from the old NORTHERN county of colleries, Yorkshire!
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mark chandler
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| posted on 2/4/13 at 09:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Westy1994
Mark, what's your take on my made up scenario above, I'm sure those folks exist out there.
These people do exist, paying benefits should enable them to maintain themselves which then allows them to seek employment, benefits are not there to
improve their standard of living.
It all has to be paid for, so we need a strong country where growth is promoted then the jobs will become available or we will just stay still or get
worse.
Yes it's tough but that is reality.
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 19/4/13 at 08:42 PM |
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The press love to pick on the worst cases and make out it's the norm and unfortunately the unemployed never seem to be given a voice to
answer.
Company takeovers, reorgs, negative cashflow, tough ecconomic operating conditions; there are many reasons why working people through no fault of
their own can find themselves no longer working.
Add to that the disapearance of whole types of occupations and the way many employers are now looking for graduates to fill jobs that 20 years ago
would have gone to someone with 3 O'levels.
Add to that the fact that so many employers seem unusually biased against the long term unemployed.
It is many years since i went through a time of unemployment but i can still remember it very well - can remember the effort i had to put in to dig
myself out of it and how lucky i was that it all came together because it just doesnt happen that way for everyone however hard they try and however
much the deserve it.
No, unemployemnt should certainly not be a way of life- but to me that just means the government needs to focus much more of it's energy on
finding ways to create more jobs. We cannot criticise people for claiming benefits when there is no viable alternative for them. I certainly dont
regard myself fit to judge them.
Personally I would look at making it obligatory for all large companies that operate in the UK to be made to employ a certain number of permanent
staff for every £ 1M of their pbt.
Some of these companies have very effective ways of wriggling out of paying corporation tax so lets look seriously at reducing the obligation on tax
and scaling up their obligation to create jobs.
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 19/4/13 at 09:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
the welfare state was bought in by conservatives when England was at its high point.
quote:
What !
You funny.
The modern idea of a Welfare State (which originated with the much earlier 'Poor Laws' was started by the Liberals and came to fruition
after Labour won the 1945 General Election.
Do you seriously believe that the Conservatives give a toss about the average working man and his family?
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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