ash_hammond
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 08:26 PM |
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Calling All Sparkies
Chaps i have a house hold eletrical questions.
I am planning on mounting my LCD tv on the wall in the bedroom on a stud frame. The easiest way is to get power to the tv and sky + box is to take a
spur from the lighting ring main in the loft via a hole in the ceiling.
However, i am worried that the TV and sky + box will overload the lighting ring main and trip the fuse box.
The stats for the two are:
TV - 100V—240V AC
SKY Box - 230V ~ 50Hz 40W Max
Can anyone confirm that adding this load to the lighting Ring Main is ok or should it be avoided.
- Ash
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 08:29 PM |
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need a power rating on the telly, and work out current demand at 100w per existing light. Seems a bad idea to me, but not outright banned.
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owelly
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 08:33 PM |
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I'm sure there has been discussions within the gonks who produced the 'Part P' about the reintroduction of radial feeds and loosing
the ring altogether.
As said above, find out the total wattageness and go from there. You could use a 3amp fused spur just to be safe.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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brynhamlet
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 08:54 PM |
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Don't do it. I'm not an electrician, but am an electrical designer and I'm sure you would break the lecky regs. You are only going
to be pulling about 1-2A from the lighting circuit, but the fuse is only rated typically 10 or 16A for all the lights.This is much more than you would
get on the lights, but is only rated for lighting. It probably won't have an earth either, which for a telly or Sky box, i.e. a pair of mains
sockets, would be mandatory. What you need to do is to take a spur from a convenient socket, even if this means running a piece of small section of
trunking (PVC available from any DIY shop) to a corner of the room and then into the loft, using 2.5 sqmm cable with an earth.
Don't forget if you sell the house the new owner may plug something requiring a larger load into the telly socket and with no earth if the
lighting fuse doesn't blow and there is no earth you are putting their life in danger. Or if you get a fault on one of your boxes you are
putting you or family in danger
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ash_hammond
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 08:59 PM |
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cool thanks chaps - much appreciated.
- Ash
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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ash_hammond
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 08:59 PM |
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cool thanks chaps - much appreciated.
- Ash
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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ash_hammond
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 08:59 PM |
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cool thanks chaps - much appreciated.
- Ash
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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ash_hammond
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 08:59 PM |
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cool thanks chaps - much appreciated.
- Ash
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 09:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by brynhamlet
Don't do it. I'm not an electrician, but am an electrical designer and I'm sure you would break the lecky regs. You are only going
to be pulling about 1-2A from the lighting circuit, but the fuse is only rated typically 10 or 16A for all the lights.This is much more than you would
get on the lights, but is only rated for lighting. It probably won't have an earth either, which for a telly or Sky box, i.e. a pair of mains
sockets, would be mandatory. What you need to do is to take a spur from a convenient socket, even if this means running a piece of small section of
trunking (PVC available from any DIY shop) to a corner of the room and then into the loft, using 2.5 sqmm cable with an earth.
Don't forget if you sell the house the new owner may plug something requiring a larger load into the telly socket and with no earth if the
lighting fuse doesn't blow and there is no earth you are putting their life in danger. Or if you get a fault on one of your boxes you are
putting you or family in danger
its getting pretty rare that a light circuit would have no earth, ie approaching 40 odd years old. But you are correct, best approach is to put a
proper feed in.
Also has to be said electrical work is best left to people who can test it!
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brynhamlet
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 09:25 PM |
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Ash
after four replies I think we get the picture 
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nitram38
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 10:38 PM |
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Apart from anything else it is against the law to rewire/add to your own wiring unless you are Part P qualified or get someone who is to sign off your
work. (£5000 fine if you get caught or prison if you hurt someone)
Seeing how you are building a stud petition, get a proper socket outlet or spur installed from your ring circuit.
It is the correct way of doing it.
[Edited on 13/3/2008 by nitram38]
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owelly
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| posted on 13/3/08 at 11:58 PM |
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I thought your were only liable under the Part P regs if you were carrying out work for financial gain, for a third party or you were modifying a
system that already had a valid cert?
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 01:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
Apart from anything else it is against the law to rewire/add to your own wiring unless you are Part P qualified or get someone who is to sign off your
work.
http://www.partp.co.uk/consumer/consumer_diy.asp says otherwise.
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Mole
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 08:29 AM |
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I read that as you can extend a circuit as long as its not in a kitchen or bathroom.
That being said I certainaly wouldn't run a t.v. from a lighting circuit.
[Edited on 14/3/08 by Mole]
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 08:31 AM |
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Basically, Part P is there to stop people killing themselves (and others) by doing work that is "non-standard" (as you suggested) or
unsafe.
The very fact that you asked that "could I take this off the lighting" is a good example of this.
I have seen all sorts of bodges in the last 25 years including lighting run in door bell wire which caused me to cop a packet while working in a
loft.
You see, you might know what you have done, but years later some other poor bloke might die as a result of your shortcut.
As to your comments of the law says otherwise, all is covered by Part P and the phrase "Work of the type listed below must be notified to your
local authority's Building Control department "
This means that they will charge you to carry out a check of your wiring to see if it complies with Part P before you can energise the circuit.
I have been an Electrician for 25 years so I can tell you (as I said before) that if you modify or add to your domestic wiring, you must get someone
who is Part P qualified to sign your work off before you switch on.
I never said you can't do the installation work.
You are interpreting the website link to suit yourself.
[Edited on 14/3/2008 by nitram38]
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Mole
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 08:35 AM |
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Incidentally what is a competent person? Clearly an electrician is (such as Nitram) but what is required to be a "competent person"?
I was actually just reading the link as I understood it and making comment. Clearly you have authority here and I would not question that.
[Edited on 14/3/08 by Mole]
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 08:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mole
Incidentally what is a competent person? Clearly an electrician is (such as Nitram) but what is required to be a "competent person"?
An Electrician with 2391 testing and inspection or Part P qualifications.
Taken from the website quoted:
What is a Competent Person?
A 'Competent Person' is a firm that has been approved by one of the government-approved Part P schemes as sufficiently competent to
self-certify that its work complies with the Building Regulations. Schemes authorised by the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG)
are listed on its website.
A registered firm is not required to notify a building control body of its proposals to carry out electrical installation work before it begins, or to
have the work inspected on completion. This reduces costs for the customer as the additional charges for calling out a building control body can be
avoided.
If a firm wishes to become a Competent Person it must first be vetted to ensure it meets the conditions of registration, including the required levels
of competence. The minimum standard of technical competence required is as follows:
Electrical work in dwellings is designed, installed, inspected and tested to the standard required by BS 7671
Applicants for a Part P Competent Person Scheme are assessed to be able to work to these standards
[Edited on 14/3/2008 by nitram38]
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Mole
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 08:50 AM |
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So DIY work is now similar to any construction work you do to your property where by you get the local authority to sign it off after you've
done it?
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 09:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mole
So DIY work is now similar to any construction work you do to your property where by you get the local authority to sign it off after you've
done it?
If it is structural, yes
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DarrenW
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 11:41 AM |
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Extension cable and a bit of trunking?
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dhutch
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 12:43 PM |
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Theres no reason why you should in a way.
- The telly shouldnt be more than 100-150 watts, no more than 200 with the skybox, which is only two light bulbs.
- If the lighting ring is fused at 5/6amps and has a lot of lights on it however it could be close already. Some are fused at 16amp. Rings mains
32.
However it is a bit of a bodge, and the new regs on wiring are a load of junk in terms of legality and common sence.
- Plus as they timed it with the colour change on fixed wiring (from blk+red to brwn+blue to bring it inline with eu/flex) it can be quite obvious.
Espically as it is largly a bodge anyway.
Where is the nearest ringmain? Can you not wire in an FCU and run a spur upto the telly?
Daniel
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/3/08 at 12:52 PM |
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No such thing as a "lighting ring" or "ringman"!
Most lighting circuits are fused at 10A and not 16A as you suggest, except in industrial/office situations.
TV's may well have low currents but they can also have high voltage chassis faults.
Couple with any problems in the lighting wiring system (a system you know nothing about and are giving advice on or have checked) you could
potentially cause someone a serious shock.
My advice is to leave these sorts of things to those that know what they are doing.
The advice you are handing out could potenticially kill someone, however well meant.
Read this: DO THE JOB PROPERLY ONCE AND FORGET ABOUT IT
[Edited on 14/3/2008 by nitram38]
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