02GF74
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:00 PM |
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Is the earth getting heavier or lighter?
heavier because
1. outerspace garbage e.g. comets, meteors landing on the earth
2. sun energy E=MC2 being converted to mass
lighter because
1. the atmosphere is being stripped off
2. heat energy radiated, again E=MC2
3. satellites being fired into space
so what is the net result? heavier or lighter?
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Benzine
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:01 PM |
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Heavier due to Kerry Katona
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
2. sun energy E=MC2 being converted to mass?
dude thats the sun getting lighter not the earth... and its converting mass into energy not the other way round.
[Edited on 7/11/08 by Mr Whippy]
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02GF74
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
2. sun energy E=MC2 being converted to mass?
dude thats the sun getting lighter not the earth...
mass we know can be converted to energy - atomic bomb but it can go the other way
[Edited on 7/11/08 by 02GF74]
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Hugh_
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
2. sun energy E=MC2 being converted to mass?
dude thats the sun getting lighter not the earth...
mass we know can be converted to energy - atomic bomb but it can go the other way
[Edited on 7/11/08 by 02GF74]
I think that is the current train of scientists thought, but I'm not sure it's been proven yet.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
2. sun energy E=MC2 being converted to mass?
dude thats the sun getting lighter not the earth...
mass we know can be converted to energy - atomic bomb but it can go the other way
[Edited on 7/11/08 by 02GF74]
not on the sun, it just destroys the hydrogen atoms turning them into heat and light. The suns just a hydrogen bomb really, it's own weight
stops the core (very small) from blowing it apart.
Anyway the earth is still accreting as much as 10^7 kg of meteorites each year. Gas loss is virtually nothing due to the gas being so rarified.
[Edited on 7/11/08 by Mr Whippy]
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:14 PM |
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Time how long it takes to orbit the sun and it should tell you!
So the question should be is a year getting longer or shorter???!!
Lol 
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
Time how long it takes to orbit the sun and it should tell you!
So the question should be is a year getting longer or shorter???!!
Lol
shorter, due to the earths drag through the solar wind and ploughing through the suns magnetic field. To get longer the earth would need to be getting
accelerated somehow. All systems tend to lose energy so orbits will slowly reduce. Except the moon which is getting boosted from the earths tides but
that’s slowing the spin of the earth….
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:24 PM |
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I think you mean the other way around!
Shouldnt the solar wind and suns magnetic field be relatively constant over a year time period?
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maartenromijn
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:30 PM |
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If we all aim our hairdryer at the sun than we might be able to blast the earth to another orbit! 
BLOG: http://thunderroad-super7.blogspot.com/
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
I think you mean the other way around!
Shouldnt the solar wind and suns magnetic field be relatively constant over a year time period?
No, it’s the same for satellites, in a low orbit they slow down due to atmospheric drag and then years later (or less) burn up. The earth has the same
problem, its moving in a very thin gas emitted by the sun (solar wind). This causes a shock wave in front of the earth which gradually slows it down
(takes billions of years like...) same thing happens with the magnetic field and the two are linked anyway.
For the earth to move away from the sun it needs to go faster, like a rocket needs to be more powerful to travel in a higher orbit. Slow down and it
falls back to what ever it was orbiting, planet, sun...whatever.
The suns output varies up and down over 11 years, it’s famous sunspot cycle due to the suns magnet field flipping over.
[Edited on 7/11/08 by Mr Whippy]
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chris_smith
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:35 PM |
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quote:
If we all aim our hairdryer at the sun than we might be able to blast the earth to another orbit!
you mean all the BEC owners should aim there exhausts at the sun ha ha 
runs and hides behind the solar panel
The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows."
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 12:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
I think you mean the other way around!
wikipedia linky
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scootz
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 01:16 PM |
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Argh... my head hurts!
Can't we just go back to discussing whether there is a place for BEC's in modern society... I was in my comfort zone then!
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 01:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
not on the sun, it just destroys the hydrogen atoms turning them into heat and light. The suns just a hydrogen bomb really, it's own weight
stops the core (very small) from blowing it apart.
Nothing gets "destroyed", the Hydrogen gets fused together to form Helium. If our sun was a bigger star it would be able to fuse those
Helium nuclei together to form heavier elements too. None of the original particles are actually lost, its just the binding energy that changes and
that's where the mass change appears (and what is radiated out as heat & light).
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 01:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Can't we just go back to discussing whether there is a place for BEC's in modern society... I was in my comfort zone then!
I just wish I could find the spare cash for one of these for going to work in
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 01:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Palin
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
not on the sun, it just destroys the hydrogen atoms turning them into heat and light. The suns just a hydrogen bomb really, it's own weight
stops the core (very small) from blowing it apart.
Nothing gets "destroyed", the Hydrogen gets fused together to form Helium. If our sun was a bigger star it would be able to fuse those
Helium nuclei together to form heavier elements too. None of the original particles are actually lost, its just the binding energy that changes and
that's where the mass change appears (and what is radiated out as heat & light).
true
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 01:57 PM |
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Ok, is this right?
the solar wind is slowing the speed the earth moves at, but part of the force exerted will be pushing the earth into a wider orbit, therefore
increasing the distance it travels, so the compound effect is increased leading to longer years?
Can you tell I have a peice of work I dont want to do this afternoon?
On a complete side point (and the mention of magnetic fields) did anyone else watch the program about the earths magnetic poles flipping? It was very
interesting. Was on a fair few weeks ago - but was amazing!
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
I think you mean the other way around!
Shouldnt the solar wind and suns magnetic field be relatively constant over a year time period?
No, it’s the same for satellites, in a low orbit they slow down due to atmospheric drag and then years later (or less) burn up. The earth has the same
problem, its moving in a very thin gas emitted by the sun (solar wind). This causes a shock wave in front of the earth which gradually slows it down
(takes billions of years like...) same thing happens with the magnetic field and the two are linked anyway.
For the earth to move away from the sun it needs to go faster, like a rocket needs to be more powerful to travel in a higher orbit. Slow down and it
falls back to what ever it was orbiting, planet, sun...whatever.
The suns output varies up and down over 11 years, it’s famous sunspot cycle due to the suns magnet field flipping over.
[Edited on 7/11/08 by Mr Whippy]
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R1minimagic
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 02:54 PM |
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If it is just a fusing reaction of hydrogen, where do the neutrons and radioactivity come from??!!
And particles (mass) are lost from the sun, that is where the solar wind comes from!!
Friday afternoons are great for this sort of discussion, just wish i had some beer at work!!
[Edited on 7/11/08 by R1minimagic]
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plantman
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 03:15 PM |
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the earth is trying to fling itself off in to space ( can't quite remember the equatiion but newton's second law F=ma f=force m= mass of
the earth a is the acceleration usually in radians/second but for the rotion around the sun radians per day?)
BUT>>>>
there is a gravational force of attraction between the sun and the earth
F=G Msun x Mearth/r^2
r is the distance between the sun and the earth G is the gravational constant
these 2 forces must equal each other (nearly anyway )
the other planet in the solar system will exert some gravational forces on the earth as they pass nearby
so the earth stays in a reasonably constant orbit, it actually wobbles around the sun.
if the solar 'wind' was slowing us down
the solar wind must have some effect but this must but minimal. if there was a large effect the earth would slow down more than the moon ( the moon
being alot smaller) and the moon would drift off into space!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 04:13 PM |
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You were listening to radio 5 live in the early hours of this morning.
The answer is/was heavier.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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clairetoo
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 04:46 PM |
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The only thing I know for sure is that the Earth's gravitational pull is getting stronger - well , according to my bathroom scales it is
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Rob Palin
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 04:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by R1minimagic
If it is just a fusing reaction of hydrogen, where do the neutrons and radioactivity come from??!!
Neutrons can be 'made' from others (and they can also decay radioactively). Some of the neutrons in the Sun have probably been gathered
there from previous stars, the rest are created as 'new' during the fusion process.
In the 3 step formation of common Helium-4 in our sun:
1/ Two protons combine to form a Deuterium nucleus (a hydrogen atom with one neutron), a positron (a positively charged electron) and a neutrino.
2/ This Deuterium atom combines with another proton to form a Helium-3 atom (two protons with one neutron).
3/ Two of these Helium-3 atoms combine to form a Helium-4 nucleus (two protons and two neutrons) leaving two 'spare' protons to wander off
and get involved in other reactions.
Radioactivity occurs in any atom which doesn't have a 'healthy' balance of protons and neutrons - but that doesn't necessarily
mean even numbers of each. Fusion reactions can still occur successfully with too many of some of the various ingredients involved and that gives
rise to imbalanced nuclei and then radioactivity.
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02GF74
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 04:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
You were listening to radio 5 live in the early hours of this morning.
The answer is/was heavier.
nope, just been wondering aboutif for some time but forgot to post about it.
pretty sure I read/saw on TV that the years are getting longer so the earth is slowing down in its orbit about the sun. Can't rememebr if days
are getting longer too or not. (re: spin on axis).
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mr henderson
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| posted on 7/11/08 at 05:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Argh... my head hurts!
Can't we just go back to discussing whether there is a place for BEC's in modern society... I was in my comfort zone then!
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