nick205
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 05:14 PM |
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Baby P
Baby P...
This has had me in tears several times today and I'm very much looking forward to finishing work and playing with my kids!
[Edited on 13/11/08 by nick205]
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coozer
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 05:16 PM |
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Eh??
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 05:21 PM |
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linky
Can only hope word gets around in prison about what those sicko's did to that poor baby!!! 
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mr henderson
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 05:37 PM |
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It would be good if the government and the media would remember just who it was that did that evil stuff.
To listen to the news you would think if it ws the social services who had killed that baby. I dare say, like the rest of us, that they cold have done
their job a bit better, but they have to work within restrictions of budget, time, rules just lke everybody else
John
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Howlor
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 05:39 PM |
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Bastards.
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omega0684
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 05:41 PM |
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i was holding my nephew finley today who is 3 months old, when the article came on the news. i looked at him and thought 'how the hell could
someone do that to such an innocent little baby'
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StevieB
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 05:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
It would be good if the government and the media would remember just who it was that did that evil stuff.
To listen to the news you would think if it ws the social services who had killed that baby. I dare say, like the rest of us, that they cold have done
their job a bit better, but they have to work within restrictions of budget, time, rules just lke everybody else
John
Wrong! This is a systematic, widespread failure by those whose role it is to act for the baby who so desperately needed their protection.
The evil bastards who did this will pay their price, but those who failed to act properly should also be punished.
You can't say that the system could have 'done their job a bit better' when you're talking about a baby with horrendous
injuries over 60 visits. That's nearly a visit per week of the baby's life and still no-one acted - social workers, doctors, nurses - all
failed to do their job 'a bit better'.
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twybrow
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 06:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
It would be good if the government and the media would remember just who it was that did that evil stuff.
To listen to the news you would think if it ws the social services who had killed that baby. I dare say, like the rest of us, that they cold have done
their job a bit better, but they have to work within restrictions of budget, time, rules just lke everybody else
John
Wrong! This is a systematic, widespread failure by those whose role it is to act for the baby who so desperately needed their protection.
The evil bastards who did this will pay their price, but those who failed to act properly should also be punished.
You can't say that the system could have 'done their job a bit better' when you're talking about a baby with horrendous
injuries over 60 visits. That's nearly a visit per week of the baby's life and still no-one acted - social workers, doctors, nurses - all
failed to do their job 'a bit better'.
Couldn't agree more. I blame the evil bar stewards who did this, but it is not acceptable that the SS and police did not notice the signs. If an
engineer allowed this many errors to pass them by when building an aircraft, and the aeroplane fell out of the sky, would you really say 'he
tried hard enough within the contraints of his budget/time/skill'? Not a chance - people would demand action, investigation and changes to
ensure it never ever happened again. the same is true here. It should never have happened, and people should have stepped in. The person I am most
amazed with is the mother - how on earth can someone treat their own flesh and blood this way.
RIP Baby P.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 06:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
It would be good if the government and the media would remember just who it was that did that evil stuff.
To listen to the news you would think if it ws the social services who had killed that baby. I dare say, like the rest of us, that they cold have done
their job a bit better, but they have to work within restrictions of budget, time, rules just lke everybody else
John
Wrong! This is a systematic, widespread failure by those whose role it is to act for the baby who so desperately needed their protection.
The evil bastards who did this will pay their price, but those who failed to act properly should also be punished.
You can't say that the system could have 'done their job a bit better' when you're talking about a baby with horrendous
injuries over 60 visits. That's nearly a visit per week of the baby's life and still no-one acted - social workers, doctors, nurses - all
failed to do their job 'a bit better'.
Well, I'm not in that line of work so can't be absolutely certain that any one person is to blame. And if it isn;t any one person, then
the system is at fault, not the individuals working in it.
I think it would be good if we could hear from someone who does work in it, and find out if what I have heard about the restrictions that they
work under, budget, time, legal, are true or not
John
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Rod Ends
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 06:23 PM |
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quote:
Why would one expect child protection, which is inherently complex and difficult,
to work properly in a country that cannot even organise its rubbish collections with reasonable expedition?
We can't be surprised by the death of Baby P
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mr henderson
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 06:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rod Ends
We can't be surprised by the death of Baby P
Absolutely brilliant stuff!
John
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 06:37 PM |
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It did occur to me that instead of lamenting so much on the news about who is to blame, we could be drawing straws to see who gets to kick the teeth
out of the perpetrators. They should definately qualify for capital punishment.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 06:41 PM |
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Perhaps if the recession gets really bad they will bring back hanging, got to be a lot cheaper than keeping these disgusting people in jail for a few
years and then letting them out again.
Punishment should really be based on economics rather than social conscience, especially when times are hard.
John
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StevieB
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 07:08 PM |
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Well, I'm not in that line of work so can't be absolutely certain that any one person is to blame. And if it isn;t any one person, then
the system is at fault, not the individuals working in it.
I think it would be good if we could hear from someone who does work in it, and find out if what I have heard about the restrictions that they
work under, budget, time, legal, are true or not
John
My neighbour and his wife both work for N Yorks child services and my wife used to - none of them take the view that this is anything less than a
major failure to act on so many levels.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 07:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
- none of them take the view that this is anything less than a major failure to act on so many levels.
I don't think there's any question about that, the question is, why the failure arose.
Did you read that timesonline article? What did you think?
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StevieB
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 07:32 PM |
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The timesonlie article raises some interesting questions, but I feel that it maybe serves to seek an excuse for the failings by saying that the civil
servants who failed may have feared assault etc.
I have a fairly straight forward view (as a former soldier) that you take the money, you do your duty. If there is a problem, you find a way around
it - in this case, police support should have been called in. In this case, the police should have been called in to support and enforced extraction
of the child to safety.
It really boils my pi$$ to think someone could have put their own personal safety, which they are far more capable of defending themselves and calling
for help, over above the life of a 17 month old child.
My son is 17 months old next week - it makes me fee physically sick to look at him, then read the reports, then realise Baby P was the same age as my
sone is now.
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oldtimer
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 07:42 PM |
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Terrible case.
My wife and I had lengthy dealings with social workers before we fianally adopted. It was, in general, very difficult. Virtually everyone was part
time, with no attempt to cover each other. Paperwork was routinely lost. There semed little concept of getting-a-move on. 'Rules' were
dropped the moment they were inconvenient to the social workers. It was a very frustrating time that really left us with very bad feelings about the
way we were all treated.
I realise there must be good social workers out there - I never met them.
A cynical person might add that it has become a system that employs huge numbers of people, makes largely subjective decisions and has virtually no
accountability.
Sorry to all the good social workers about sounding so mean hearted but what should have felt like a very special time in our lives was made truely
awful.
Martin
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Peteff
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 07:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
i was holding my nephew finley today who is 3 months old, when the article came on the news. i looked at him and thought 'how the hell could
someone do that to such an innocent little baby'
People like that only see the child as a way to extract money from the system which is geared to keeping children with their parents. A lot of the
time the social workers can only do what they are allowed to by the system and the parents. If they turn up and are told to go away then they have no
other course of action. I mourn for the child who had such a short unhappy life but the people who need punishing are not the ones who tried to help
and failed.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 07:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
I mourn for the child who had such a short unhappy life but the people who need punishing are not the ones who tried to help and failed.
I agree, it's too easy for people who weren't there to blame the ones who were. Let's all remember that the people who killed that
kid were not the social workers but the people who are now in prison
John
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scootz
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 08:06 PM |
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As someone who used to deal with a lot of overlapping issues with various SW Dept's, I can only say that (in my experience) they are an absolute
shambles.
Severe lack of communication, continuity, common sense and above all else... the balls to do the right thing.
I need to stress that there are (of course) plenty of good SW's out there - they do their bit but are constantly ground down by the
'system' to the point of apathy.
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scootz
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 08:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
People like that only see the child as a way to extract money from the system which is geared to keeping children with their parents.
I have to disagree Peteff - whilst there are plenty who view children as a source of state based income, those involved in this case are a completely
different breed of animal.
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wrigglypig
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 10:04 PM |
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it will be a long time before the details all come out at the moment everyone is basing things on part of the story. The facts we know are the people
who comitted the acts that killed the child are in custody, but the exact reasons why the services did not stop it are not clear. You can bet there
will be a lot of buck passing going on. I have worked in cases involving this sort of thing ( though not as bad thank god) but 9 times out of 10
they will say wherever possible they dont want to take children away from parents!!! I have heard this so many times before its absolute bollocks!!
What the real issues are is that it costs shed loads of money to take the child into care and have it fostered!! It does nt cost as much as the bill
for the monthly mileage claim a friend of mine puts in each month (and she is a freelance social worker and charges £35.00 per hour plus expenses)
She herself states that they all have massive case loads, far more than they are supposed to have to be efficient and deal with the cases properly. It
is very much a cases of too many chiefs and not enough indians. There will be loads of senior managers , middle managers , lower mangers and hardly
any bugger on the ground! I m not jumping to ss defence I just know from my line of work and over 20 yrs of seeing ss talk a good job but deliver
£$%& all. There I have said my bit R.I.P
Kev 
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nstrug
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 10:36 PM |
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For the past 30 years, the overriding rule in social care has been that taking a child away from its parents is the very, very last resort. As a
result, we have the lowest frequency of children being taken into care in the whole of Europe. Unfortunately, this result far to often in parents
being given the benefit of the doubt. Combine this with manipulative parents and well-meaning social workers and you have a recipe for disaster.
Social work is poorly paid and low status. It therefore attracts selfless and idealistic individuals when really what's needed for the job is
cynical, suspicious bastards.
Nick
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 11:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
I agree, it's too easy for people who weren't there to blame the ones who were. Let's all remember that the people who killed that
kid were not the social workers but the people who are now in prison
John
The animals (how can they even be classed as human?) that did this should be hanging from a rope.
However, let us not also forget that this child would not have suffered the agonising torture he was put through and ultimately killed if the social
services had fulfilled the role they exist for.
If I had let this happen through my own inaction I don't think I could live with myself.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 14/11/08 at 01:26 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJe]
The animals (how can they even be classed as human?) that did this should be hanging from a rope.
Animals??? Sorry but animals wouldnt do this!! Unfortunately some humans would and do!! Bring back capital punishment and stop tarnishing the good
name of animals. These people deserve to suffer very slowly so none of this hanging to break their necks........ let them strangle slowly.
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