quinnj3
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 02:09 PM |
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OT who knows you might have an opinion:-)
I was out at a lads house during the week to see a perfectly restored triumph spitfire. I have never seen one of these cars before and thought they
were a really nice car. I loved the low driving position and feeling of being cocooned in the cockpit. I know this is similar to a seven type car
and thought that buying a reasonable one and restoring/ modifiying it would be a good idea. I was thinking putting modern coilover suspension at the
rear and maybe somthing like a K series 1.6 up front. What do you guys think? I think it would be easier to do than a kit car as all the parts are
available off the shelf, for a restoration at least.
my aim is to build my own locost wether it takes me a week or 10 years to get started, i'm sure i will sometime
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scootz
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 02:14 PM |
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Not sure about how easy it would be to change the rear suspension from the Herald based leaf-spring.
Might be something out there! I see that there's a couple of US co's offering an IRS sub-frame for the MGBGT...
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BenB
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 02:14 PM |
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Nice plan  Quite like the Spitfire shape... They have a reputation for being slightly flexible so it'd be intersting to see how it takes the
extra BHP.... Now's the time to buy- horrible weather (well, up until today!!) and lots of people getting rid of second / third cars....
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mr henderson
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 02:14 PM |
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The engine swap would be OK, but you are pretty much stuck with the swing axle suspension without some MAJOR modification.
Having said that, the main mod at the time was to fit a shorted transverse top spring to give some negative camber, which helped to resist the tuck
under during heavy cornering.
Interesting project, could be expensive, but if you could find the right car to start with it might be OK
John
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 02:40 PM |
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Personally i'd say the kit car would be an awful lot easier myself. Restoring an old car using off the shelf parts isnt too bad but replacing
rusty parts of an old steel shell isnt as simple as fitting fibreglass panels to a kit car. You may then need to start looking at bodywork changes to
fit the engine - and you will only find out through trial fitting really so wont know what you are letting yourself in for fully.
Ask the lad how many hours went into restoring the Spitfire and i bet it will be considerably more than the typical kit car build. I have previously
owned a 1968 MG Midget and also helped a mate restore a Triumph GT6 (like a coupe Spitfire with a straight 6 engine). The k-series engine has been
fitted into a fair few MG Midget's so am guessing it will fit pretty easily into a Spitfire too.
Image deleted by owner
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quinnj3
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 02:56 PM |
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The guy stripped the car, polished all the bits, painted the subframe, had the body resprayed and reconed everything that needed it including new
carpets and interior. It was all done in six months! In saying that the chassis was sound and so was the body except the front wings. I
couldn't believe it could be done in such a short time. The car has subsequently won a few concourse competitions due to its originality and
perfect body work. He did not underseal the underbody but had it painted to the same standard as the rest of the car. Before a show he crawls under
it and gives it a good polish. The car is also used almost as a daily driver in the summer due to being pre 1972 hence no tax and only £100/year
insurance for himself, his dad and his mum.
I like the idea of taking the body off and so having a bare chassis to work on and modify, and then adapting the body to suit. I know this kind of
construction is not the best for rigidity but the kind of power increase would not be crazy.
The suspension change would be difficult but I was thinking of doing this along the same lines of a kit car, or more accurately a Zcars mini. If the
boot was cut out and a support frame for the independant suspension built into it I don't see it as being any more difficult than building a
kitcar, which usually needs modified to suit peoples applications anyway.
[Edited on 21/2/09 by quinnj3]
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iank
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 03:07 PM |
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Once you get the rear suspension sorted they are nice little cars.
RX7 conversion is very nice if you fancy something different
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/ro-spit/
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Ivan
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 03:09 PM |
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I'm a traditionalist when it comes to these types of cars - so in my opinion keep a classic original and make a good investment of it. If you
modify it beyond the traditional modifications you will cut thousands from it's value, whilst if you restore it to original you have an
investment car.
If you want a performance car that looks traditional, rather look for a replica and but some crazy engine in that.
[Edited on 21/2/09 by Ivan]
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mr henderson
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 03:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by quinnj3
The suspension change would be difficult but I was thinking of doing this along the same lines of a kit car, or more accurately a Zcars mini. If the
boot was cut out and a support frame for the independant suspension built into it I don't see it as being any more difficult than building a
kitcar, which usually needs modified to suit peoples applications anyway.
I think it would indeed be more difficult that doing the same thing in a kit car. The problem is how do you feed the weight of the car onto the
wheels? In a seven that is done by the spring mounting part of the chassis, and integral part of the chassis connecting all the various parts together
in a series of triangles.
In a Spitfire the weight passes along the spring which is bolted to the differential which is bolted to the chassis. A lot of material that would need
to be added and it would be difficult to keep that within the confines of the bodywork, and would certainly need to intrude into the boot and probably
the passenger compartment.
Of course it would be possible, but there needs to be some kind of context and it's difficult to see what situation the work and time involved
would be appropriate.
The engine in a Spitfire sticks out between the front wheels, too, so that isn't going to help the handling, especially compared with a 7
Ivan's comments are sensible, and well worth considering, too.
John
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coozer
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 03:26 PM |
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During my dilemma choosing a project it became a toss up between a TR6 and a 7.
The se7en won hands done based on ease of assembly and availability of modern components. Costing the TR it came out about 3 times as much as costing
a kit. Then as always you double or triple your real time budget to get it finished.
Buying a Sierra donor and brand new kit is much cheaper than buying a rusty TR6 and new heritage shell.
As it turned out as well, me being a rusty body work fearign novice, the MNR was purely a nut and bolt spannering exercise.
Horses for courses of course, but a Spitfire with a Triumph straight 6 in it would be a hoot!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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quinnj3
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 03:39 PM |
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Ivan I completely understand your views and to be truthful if I was going to do this I would not be taking a good example and butchering it for my own
use. I believe that some things should be left well alone. If I think about doing this I will probably buy an ex race car or an already modified car
that somebody else has already butchered so that I won't be reducing the number of original classics out there. I would also be keeping mods to
the interior minimal and if possible doing the rear suspension mods with little or no adaptation to the body. If the boot floor was destroyed anyway
then I see no reason why I should not build a suspension frame in it. I am also not completely sold on the engine transplant unless it was for the
GT6 engine. I'm just throwing ideas in the air.
my aim is to build my own locost wether it takes me a week or 10 years to get started, i'm sure i will sometime
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RK
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 04:41 PM |
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Highly interesting that a kit car would be less labour intensive and generally easier than a restoration job. The complete opposite is true where I
live, since the Kit Car has no scene whatsoever here, and are illegal to import.
The Caterhams are all turn key, and sell for the same price as a self build. A restoration might be costly, but all the parts are available from
several sources. And they are MEANT to go together.
[Edited on 21/2/09 by RK]
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quinnj3
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 05:32 PM |
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I can understand a kit car being less labour intensive if the car to be restored is rotten and needs a lot of metal work. If however the restored car
was in good shape and just in need of a little derusting and reconditioning then I think the restoration would be less labour intensive.
In saying that it is not really right to compare the two as both would give a fantastic feeling of achievement on completion. At some stage I would
love to do both. I think though, to start with, a restoration job may be the easier starting point as this will give the builder the necessary skills
and hopefully engineering knowledge to build a car to a very high standard.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 21/2/09 at 06:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by quinnj3
I think though, to start with, a restoration job may be the easier starting point as this will give the builder the necessary skills and hopefully
engineering knowledge to build a car to a very high standard.
I agree that a restoration would be the easier option to start with, especially if starting with a car that doesn't really need it, but I
can't see how it would give you much in the way of skills that would be applicable to building your own car.
Havng done both I can see that there is considerable difference between bringing something back to how it was, and solving the problems that arise
when even building a ready made kit, let alone building the chassis etc as well.
John
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