woodster
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:08 AM |
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what would you say
if you were in his shoes
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews/idUSLQ48474320090226
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balidey
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:14 AM |
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Go easy on these pensioners, they need every little bit of help they can get 
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DIY Si
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:17 AM |
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If it's in his contract, and I'd be surprised if it's not, then I'd tell one and all to go swing for it! I don't see how
the Gov't can try and pull this kind of stunt when he was in place before they bailed the bank out. It's got nothing to do with them.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:19 AM |
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I have no objection to someone being paid for doing a good job but they should not be rewarded for being a failure too.
He should be paid per year as any ‘chief-executive or directors’ pay or pension should be in direct proportion to the company’s profit margin for that
year.
I this instant he’s should be paying the bank back
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:23 AM |
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I'd tell the government where to go!!! Its a part of his legally binding contract and no matter how bad you might think the RBS's finances
are, they are nothing like as bad as this country's mounting debts!!!
You can hardly blame the CEO for the state of the Western world's economy - there are bigger issues at fault here than the overall management of
the banks.
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russbost
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:24 AM |
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Should have made things like this a condition when they decided to bail them out - bit late now - Gosh aren't our Government marvellous, must
vote them back in next time!!!
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Humbug
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:25 AM |
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If I were him I would say thanks very much and take the £650k a year. As others have said, it's (presumably) in a legally-binding contract that
he would get this level of pension and let's not forget that it is a pension, not a performance bonus. E.g. both I and my employer put money
into a pension fund but, however I eventually leave the company, I would still expect to get the pension.
I think that's why the government has to "ask" him to forgo some of the pension, rather than "tell" or
"force".
Lessons for the future might include companies thinking more carefully about the terms of pay and benefits (including pension provision) before
they employ top level executives, rather than after things have gone breasts skyward.
[Edited on 26.02.2009 by Humbug]
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owelly
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:26 AM |
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If it was his fault that the government had to bail RBS out, then he should forego any privilages including his pension. If he had done a good job and
he can prove it was absolutely not his fault, then good luck to him. It's not his problem that I picked up the wrong careers leaflet at
school........
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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oldtimer
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:33 AM |
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They bring new meaning to the term "the buck stops here"
It is astonishing how bankers/share dealers/politicians et al are so willing to accept the plaudits/money when times are going well but seem very
unwilling to accept any consequences when they get it wrong.
Whether in his contract or not, a little bit of contrition at this point would go a long way.
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:43 AM |
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I was listening to radio 4 this morning and the government "could" pass a bill specifically for this one guys pension to have it cut.
Legally binding contracts stand for nothing if that is done. but then it damages the reputation on the UK as a civilised country when they overrule
judicial matters like that - it would be like a dictatorship.
I find it interesting that there are specific people who keep getting spot lighted, but I bet there is a plethorar of fat cats elsewhere and lower
down the ladder who don't get focused on. In that sense its a bit of a witch hunt and so in my opinion a bit unfair.
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Humbug
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
I was listening to radio 4 this morning and the government "could" pass a bill specifically for this one guys pension to have it cut.
Legally binding contracts stand for nothing if that is done. but then it damages the reputation on the UK as a civilised country when they overrule
judicial matters like that - it would be like a dictatorship.
I find it interesting that there are specific people who keep getting spot lighted, but I bet there is a plethorar of fat cats elsewhere and
lower down the ladder who don't get focused on. In that sense its a bit of a witch hunt and so in my opinion a bit unfair.
Good point... I suppose they would be the "slightly overweight cats" or "a bit porky but not yet obese cats"
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02GF74
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 10:58 AM |
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simple; it is in my contract then pay me.
tough titties mr Brown and Darling.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 11:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I this instant he’s should be paying the bank back
So after years of vast profits, one bad year and you think the guy's pension should be based on that?? A year or two down the line the banks
will no doubt be back into vast profit again.
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Hammerhead
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 11:09 AM |
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storm in a tea cup as far as I can see.
To put it in perspective these city types earn millions in bonuses per year. £650K is small change. The guy has every rite to claim the pension
(although he is only 50!) if he lives another 20 years it's only £13M
are pensions taxed?
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minitici
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 11:14 AM |
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GB just needs to arrange for 'a little accident' 
I'm sure they do this (maybe I watch too many conspiracy programmes).
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donny
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 11:17 AM |
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What would I say?
Just been told pay rises frozen; bonuses (what little they were) 'deferred'; bonus scheme for next year binned.
I'd say well done, keep up the good work.
Not.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 11:22 AM |
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Seems like people need to differentiate between bonuses (which he definately shouldnt get) and a pension.
If the government do bring in legislation to stop this guy's pension then thats a witch hunt. This country is rapidly moving towards a
dictatorship already - where is it going to stop?? How many times have the government interfered with the running of private companies lately??
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 12:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammerhead
are pensions taxed?
Absolutely - the government is going to get 40% of that money.
Hypocritical?
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 12:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Seems like people need to differentiate between bonuses (which he definately shouldnt get) and a pension.
If the government do bring in legislation to stop this guy's pension then thats a witch hunt. This country is rapidly moving towards a
dictatorship already - where is it going to stop?? How many times have the government interfered with the running of private companies lately??
RBS is hardly private, the government will own more than 80% if they proceed with the toxic debt "bad bank" proposal.
Them owning the company has nothing to do with being able to stop his pension though, they will need to pass that through parlament as any other bill
would have to.
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woodster
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 01:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
Should have made things like this a condition when they decided to bail them out - bit late now - Gosh aren't our Government marvellous, must
vote them back in next time!!!
I agree Mr Darling must have known about Sir Freds pension before he bought 70% of RBSs shares or is he a complete numpty
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 01:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
If the government do bring in legislation to stop this guy's pension then thats a witch hunt.
that's what they need, a pay-to-view burning at the stake, that'll earn some money for the bank 
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 01:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
RBS is hardly private, the government will own more than 80% if they proceed with the toxic debt "bad bank" proposal.
Them owning the company has nothing to do with being able to stop his pension though, they will need to pass that through parlament as any other bill
would have to.
Now they do yes - but when the CEO started out they didnt. I think its a very slippery slope though if the government start bringing in legislation to
completely over-ride a worker's rights / employment law though - where does it end?? This guy may well be a multi-millionaire already and am
sure doesnt exactly need this pension - but going back to basics, he is a worker just like the rest of us with a pension as part of his employment
contract.
How would you feel if you got towards retirement age and suddenly the government moved in and took away the pension you have worked hard for??
Does anyone seriously think its right that the government can take away a contractual company pension like this??
[Edited on 26/2/09 by Paul TigerB6]
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designer
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 02:05 PM |
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If this bloke had been in charge of a private enterprise he would have got nothing, and would probably have been taken to court.
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RK
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 02:17 PM |
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1. It's not "tough titties Brown and Darling", it's "tough titties Simon and the British Taxpayer" - do you want
to have taxes increased to pay for this kind of thing?
2. Rewards for failure were a hallmark of certain workers in 70's UK. Why is this different? Only then, it wasn't their fault the place of
work was run by idiots who wouldn't modernise.
Remember, the whole western world financial system was manipulated to pay executives huge salaries and bonuses, by keeping things artificially
inflated. Basing financial instruments on the whim of the housing market, for example, is what got us into this thing. Not just the UK.
[Edited on 26/2/09 by RK]
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 26/2/09 at 02:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by designer
If this bloke had been in charge of a private enterprise he would have got nothing, and would probably have been taken to court.
Err he was in a private enterprise, he was the CEO of a private enterprise that is now partly owned by the state.
He should still get his pension as has been said it is part of his contract of employment same as my pension (albeit only 1/100th the size)
Keith
Aviemore
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