cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 07:15 PM |
|
|
Uber and losses
I am having real difficulty with this. Uber seems to be attempting to take over the world (of minicabs) BUT is making massive losses .
So is there an expectation they will turn a profit at some point?? But surely their prices will have to go up significantly so use will drop??
Or is this a brave new world where being solvent and actually making money is irrelevant?
|
|
|
|
|
Bluemoon
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 07:58 PM |
|
|
Establishment of a world wide brand... odd times indeed.. still may fail leaving investors out of pocket..
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 08:01 PM |
|
|
IF you have EVER been a Taxi driver, then you will understand WHAT their problems are, and, eventualy, ................................. you aint far
of the mark. Drivers HAVE to work all the hours to make ends meet. Medical = usually about £120. Driver hackney licence = whatever the local council
wants to charge. Insurance, well go figure including public liability and doing probably 100,000 miles annually. Fuel costs = £?, Servicing and repair
cost (usually no warranty on a Taxi for parts). Cleaning of car =£?. Plus EXTRA for when some kindly person throws up in the vehicle, AND you are OFF
the road till its dry (imaginer that on a Friday/Saturday night when its a good shift and you can't because someone CAN'T hold their
drink:mad
Then you HAVER to keep money back for tax, National insurance, VAT (because you will possibly have to register for it). Then some one dings your car -
YEP - You are off the road AGAIN till its fixed. Did i mention MOT test PLUS 3 OR 4 HACKNEY tests per year (like an MOT, BUT, over all condition comes
in and for slight blemishes you can be off the road UNTIL fixed and RETESTED) (re tests chargeable chargeable). and so it goes on.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
|
|
|
sdh2903
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 08:14 PM |
|
|
Same as Tesla. Their losses and debts are astounding.
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 08:24 PM |
|
|
I used to think taxi's were very expensive... then I realised how much they actually earn after the bucketloads of deductions. My sisters
boyfriend used to be proud of the fact that he could pull in £500 for a 12 hour shift, then I realised he was talking about Christmas day, or new
years eve, or any number of times when people are more interested in being with friends and family instead of ferrying strangers round for pennies.
Oh, and that's £500 gross, not net.
But this will be interesting to watch;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50544283
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 08:46 PM |
|
|
My Dad, although never a taxi driver, knew many and was the captain of the local taxi drivers golf association (go figure!)
Anyway, back then drivers used to have a fairly comfortable lifestyle. But that was Taxis, so they were always busy off the ranks in Brighton. Private
hire has always looked trickier to make a living at, but with apps etc it will be the future I reckon. Just think of all those wet cold evenings
standing at a taxi rank, 2am and a 25 minute wait. Now press a button and one appears fairly quickly.
However, it MUST be dragging the industry downhill, and once all the competition is gone, then prices go up? But I reckon somebody will always come
along and try to undercut the others. After all it isn't a complex business.
But it seems Uber are not the only ones. Seems most start ups have almost unlimited funds. And markets get crowded driving revenues down. Not exactly
healthy.
|
|
|
theconrodkid
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 10:29 PM |
|
|
it MUST be dragging the industry downhill, and once all the competition is gone, then prices go up?
exactly, thats what stobart and stagecoach did
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
|
|
|
bi22le
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 11:07 PM |
|
|
These are two different topics in one.
1 - Being a driver. It must be getting harder to earn good wedge but when I was growing up (37 now) my mates dad was a black can driver. Single income
they had a large extended 4 bed house. Bigger then my family home and my dad was in IT.
2 - The modern world of a global tech company. In time I think some serious bubbles are going to pop. As OP states, the ability to be so large and
turn no profit is dodgey AF. I think most of then right off profit against investment and R&D, both tx deductable. It also goes to show things are
not right when more established bands try and compete and then go out of business because of it.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
|
|
|
Dingz
|
| posted on 25/11/19 at 11:42 PM |
|
|
Have you forgotten that company that sold books at a loss for years called Amazon?
Mind you not paying tax helps them.
Phoned the local ramblers club today, but the bloke who answered just
went on and on.
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 12:45 AM |
|
|
THere's a weird dual view here. People defending the uber drivers. And then every uber driver I've ever shared the 30 minute drive home
with, who's said they love it, it pays well and don't know what all the negativity is about.
Im torn, normally it's the other way around in such conversations.
|
|
|
SJ
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 07:31 AM |
|
|
I suspect Uber's medium to long term plan doesn't include the good (or bad) ladies and gentlemen who currently pilot their cars. Once
drivers are out of the equation the business model is very different.
|
|
|
steve m
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 08:29 AM |
|
|
The reason Uber has lost there licence has nothing to do with fares etc
Its to do with un licenced drivers pretending to be licenced under the Uber umbrella
And I for one, totally agree, as these unlicenced drivers pose risks to the Girls and Women traveling
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
|
|
|
Dingz
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 08:59 AM |
|
|
Have you forgotten that company that sold books at a loss for years called Amazon?
Mind you not paying tax helps them.
Sorry no idea why this has posted again.
[Edited on 26/11/19 by Dingz]
Phoned the local ramblers club today, but the bloke who answered just
went on and on.
|
|
|
russbost
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 09:15 AM |
|
|
Many modern, global companies have a business plan that will show losses for anything up to maybe 5 or even 10 years. Theory is you grow your global
brand, stomaching the losses (not quite sure who's stumping up the money for that, coz the banks won't unless they have some form of
collateral in place) which should gradually reduce year on year (seem to remember reading this about lastminute.com years ago) as the global market
grows. Eventually you reach the tipping point which should be whilst the company still has substantial further growth in the pipeline, once at that
point small profit can quickly become enormous.
There is, of course, the other minor detail that just because you're making a loss for tax purposes doesn't actually mean you are making a
loss in the way an average bloke in the street would expect
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 09:55 AM |
|
|
Just been thinking again.
What are Uber spending the money on?
They are not much cheaper than other minicabs? Yet on paper their losses are a huge amount of revenue.SO either they are heavily subsidising the fares
OR loads is being spent elsewhere? I know they are having a go at driverless cars, and maybe hope to pick up food delivery etc. but what else?
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 11:30 AM |
|
|
quote:
They are not much cheaper than other minicabs?
They *very* much are cheaper.
Private hire from work to my house - £22
Black cab from work to my house - £28
Uber from work to my house - £13
|
|
|
Irony
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 12:00 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Same as Tesla. Their losses and debts are astounding.
The investors of Tesla will be footing the costs etc. Either justifying by the promise of future profits etc or feeling warm and cosy about the
environment considerations.
However I am not sure Tesla is a good example because establishing a major automotive manufacturer from scratch is incredibly difficult task as you
have no existing products to help fund your next product. I think I read somewhere that Tesla is the only company to do it in a very very long time.
|
|
|
sdh2903
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 12:45 PM |
|
|
quote:
The investors of Tesla will be footing the costs etc. Either justifying by the promise of future profits etc or feeling warm and cosy about the
environment considerations.
However I am not sure Tesla is a good example because establishing a major automotive manufacturer from scratch is incredibly difficult task as you
have no existing products to help fund your next product. I think I read somewhere that Tesla is the only company to do it in a very very long time.
Granted, but look at their financials, they are bringing in more and more revenue year on year (good) and yet they are still not turning a profit, im
sure i read they have only had 2 quarters of profit since they started, this year they posted a $700m loss, not for the year, for the Quarter  and
yet the shareholders keep lapping it up.
Although in comparison to Uber, they look relatively healthy, uber lost $5.2bn in 3 months in the 2nd qtr this year. for the last 2.5 years they have
lost nearly $10Bn.
It seems as though if your on trend or can make some bull***t claim to be good for the environment you seem to have billions of investors cash to do
as you please.
|
|
|
Irony
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 01:51 PM |
|
|
quote:
Although in comparison to Uber, they look relatively healthy, uber lost $5.2bn in 3 months in the 2nd qtr this year. for the last 2.5 years they have
lost nearly $10Bn.
It seems as though if your on trend or can make some bull***t claim to be good for the environment you seem to have billions of investors cash to do
as you please.
I can personally see when Tesla gets the Roadster 2, model Y and the Cybertruck into production and when they have existing well established product
lines they will make a shedload of profit. There R&D must be absolutely huge at this time as they are pushing the technology forward. No other
car company can boast people queuing in the street for the chance to order one!
However I cannot wrap my head around Ubers losses and how they intend to turn it around. Unless they have serious debts they are paying off etc
(software and hardware development perhaps)
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 02:06 PM |
|
|
Not being allowed to drive for some time now means public transport and when needs must taxis, Speaking with the drivers they seem to have to work
long long hours and suffer a lot of running costs to not actually make that mut net income from it.
As mentioned above when a kindly passenger pukes in your car you're off the road (not earning and either cleaning it yourself or paying out for
someone else to clean it).
Many of the drivers simply don't want to work Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Yes there may be more people wanting taxis, but invariably
the drivers have to deal with people who're very drunk and/or refuse to pay.
Quite a few of the taxis I've been in also have CCTV systems in them as well (at the drivers cost). The drivers simply want the protection of
video evidence in the event of any altercation between driver and customer.
When I was driving I considered doing it weekend evenings as a way of making a few extra pennies. On reflection I'm very glad I didn't.
I'd not have enjoyed it and I'd be hacked of at the extra wear and tear on my own car (all the local taxi firms in my area use the owner
driver setup).
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 03:25 PM |
|
|
Playing devil's advocate...
quote:
Many of the drivers simply don't want to work Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Yes there may be more people wanting taxis, but invariably
the drivers have to deal with people who're very drunk and/or refuse to pay.
I don't want to work Mon-Fri. Tough, I make less money if I only work weekends. So I don't.
quote:
Quite a few of the taxis I've been in also have CCTV systems in them as well (at the drivers cost). The drivers simply want the protection of
video evidence in the event of any altercation between driver and customer.
Dash cam with rear facing camera - £40 one off cost, most drivers have one anyway these days.
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 03:51 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Playing devil's advocate...
quote:
Many of the drivers simply don't want to work Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Yes there may be more people wanting taxis, but invariably
the drivers have to deal with people who're very drunk and/or refuse to pay.
I don't want to work Mon-Fri. Tough, I make less money if I only work weekends. So I don't.
quote:
Quite a few of the taxis I've been in also have CCTV systems in them as well (at the drivers cost). The drivers simply want the protection of
video evidence in the event of any altercation between driver and customer.
Dash cam with rear facing camera - £40 one off cost, most drivers have one anyway these days.
Fair comments.
My point on working Thurs, Fri and Sat nights was doing those shifts after they'd already done a long week working days (or nights).
True, many motorists do have dashcams these days and the costs may not be astranonomical to buy the kit or even to have it fitted. The fottage
captured is one more thing the taxi driver has to store etc. Although I guess it could be captured on an SD card and recorded over nothing untoward
occured during the shift. Still more time and expense overall for the driver though.
|
|
|
Angel Acevedo
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 04:56 PM |
|
|
Some computer wiz kid told me that Uber gets their share of money by farming information derived from their users database.
Trips, time enroute, preferred routes, business they prefer...
All that must be profitable in some way not currently disclosed...
Wether is a valid point of view or plain conspiranoic nonsense I don´t know.
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 08:32 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
The reason Uber has lost there licence has nothing to do with fares etc
Its to do with un licenced drivers pretending to be licenced under the Uber umbrella
And I for one, totally agree, as these unlicenced drivers pose risks to the Girls and Women traveling
steve
A few years ago a young girl in Cambridge got into what she thought was a taxi , it might have been New Year’s Eve, she was found murdered dumped in a
field . The driver was posing as a licensed operator, he was found a few days later in Scotland having committed suicide.
|
|
|
SJ
|
| posted on 26/11/19 at 10:12 PM |
|
|
Years ago I used to regularly pick my girlfriend up from work dos in London. Driving up outside a venue the amount of times I had to yell 'no,
I'm not your bloody taxi' doesn't bear thinking about. Drunk young people will climb into anything with wheels at 1 in the morning.
|
|
|
.jpg)
