givemethebighammer
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| posted on 11/12/06 at 11:05 PM |
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Main bl**dy dealers
Tin top went in for a service today, I got a call just after lunch saying that someone had previously stripped the threads on the sump drain hole this
was a common problem and they would have to charge me to fix it! I explained that they were the only ones who had ever serviced the car so it must one
of their technicians who had damaged it. I also stated that I fully understood that it was easy to strip threads in aluminium material, but I still
maintained that this would only happen if the bolt was over tightened. I then went on to say that unless they could provide me proof from the car
manufacturer that this was a known issue I wasn't paying for the damage (car now out of warranty).
Result was that they backed down and repaired the thread with a helicoil free.
Then to add insult to injury they told me that my brake lights weren't working and they had changed the bulbs but this had not fixed the
problem, so it looked like I would need some new bulb holders. When I picked the car up, I was then informed that the brake lights were fine and that
the apprentice had fitted tail light bulbs instead of stop and tail bulbs!
[Edited on 11/12/06 by givemethebighammer]
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MikeR
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| posted on 11/12/06 at 11:09 PM |
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well done for standing up to them.
I once got a quote from a main dealer and from an independent to fit a clutch. Went back to the main dealer and said "oi, you're loads
more expensive, why the heck should i pick you". We then struck a deal so they where just a little more expensive & they serviced the car or
something.
Half way through the day i got a call,
"terribly sorry, someone has cross threaded your drive shaft. We'll try and fix it but just thought we'd warn you in case we
can't".
Another call,
"sorry, its knackered, needs a new one, don't worry we've got one in stock, if you say yes now we can still finish the job
today".
Turns out the total cost is just a little more than the original quote for the clutch.
had - certainly felt like it. never went back.
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clanger
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| posted on 11/12/06 at 11:47 PM |
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Must be the Main Stealer Silly Season 
A few weeks ago, my car developed an alarming misfire / knocking noise. After a quick shufty in case it was anything obvious, a visit to the main
stealer was in order to plug into their diagnostics computer (modern cars eh ?).
Anyway, 1 hour after leaving it, a call from service manager with a diagnosed failed dual mass flywheel / clutch. Do you want us to remove gearbox,
inspect and then do it if neccesary? Do I have a choice ????????? Car was pretty undrivable, and no time for DIY.
£970 but the car would be back on the road in two days 
Goes to pick up the car. Bad news Might need a new thrust bearing, do you want us to risk the old one ? Two types mechanical (cheap) hydraulic
(££££). Guess which one ?
OK but I want too see all the parts 
Anyway, total bill with vat, this that & the other would be £1100 Pick up car in another 2 days
2 days pass, arrive at stealers to pick up car.....Bad news.
Clutch assy / flywheel etc changed, but still same fault
Begs the question, why change in first place if obviously nothing wrong ?????
Not paying for that one, so stealer says he'll put old parts back in........again, why change them in the first place????????
Anyway, back to the story.
New fault diagnosed as jumped timing belt (phew!!!), can't be valve damage as it runs intermittently. Just a quick replacement and reset timing
and I'll be out of there 
Next day, another call. More bad news. After resetting timing still no joy. Diagnosis is worn injector bores (C.R. Diesel) causing loss of compression
on 3 out of four pots. Needs new head, and a set of injectors. Apparantly they come as one item ?????????? Cost approx (£2500)
STOP........................................!
I will be in to pay the diagnostic charge £153 and collect my car, do not do another thing to it. Car was trailered (top end half stripped) to my
garage for some DIY.
On inspection, it was pretty obvious they had'nt a clue, bearing in mind this was a main stealer, with all the specialist doodaas and wotsists
for every situation.
There was a gaping hole in one of the hydraulic tappets on cyl 1 inlet which had started eating into the valve, and tappets on 2 & 3 were also
showing signs of a hard life. How can you miss a hole the size of a 10p piece and a worn out cam
Obviously too many pound signs in the way of the obvious fault.
I will be providing a full report of the sorry saga to the manufacturer regarding the p**s poor technical know how at one of their main stealers, and
also contacting trading standards regarding the undertaking of unnecessary work. How many people with little or no knowledge of the intricacies of the
car get fleeced like this ?????????
Main stealers..............NEVER AGAIN
DIY all the way from now on. Noboby takes care of your car better than yourself in my opinion
I'm already looking into buying my own, quite reasonably priced diagnostics software and dongle. Should pay for itself on its first outing
hopefully.
Merry Xmas
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Danozeman
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 07:03 AM |
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Main dealers are a waste of time imo. Bearing in mind im a mechanic. I used to have my car serviced at the ford dealers to keep the warranty up. The
services cost me 150 quidish and i never let them do anything that was under warranty. The last time i had it done cost me 350 quid for a medium
service so i never went back. Plus itd been in 6 times for a slight misfire sometimes and would occasionally cut out at traffic lights/junctions and
they never fixed it. (fiesta zetec-s) Just before i got rid i gave it a good service plugs etc. It had ngk plugs in, put ford ones in. Perfect,
fault gone and went alot better. Where the ngk plugs came from i do not know. When i got it it had done just under 4k so had the first service when
i got it, dealer serviced..
Not a horror story but thought id share.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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macnab
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 08:36 AM |
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I listen in horror at work at the incredible amounts of money people spend at garages; we're talking hundreds upon hundreds for just routine
work. I wonder if there are any garages that don't rip you off. Even worse are the so-called welded repairs I've had to cut (or pull) of
people’s cars. The standard is quite appalling and really puts peoples life at risk. I recently replaced sills on a friend’s old beetle (apparently
repaired for its MOT) and I swear I just tore the garages replacements off with my bare hands and I'm no superman. They had only tacked along
the outer edge, that’s it! Nothing else! and this got through (their) MOT. What people will do just for money.
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oliwb
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 09:15 AM |
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We had our new defender pack up after about 2K miles. The transfer box was jumping out of gear. The cause was the master cylinder in the clutch
preventing it from going into gear properly. So I phones landrover assistance and tell them whats wrong with it. They say can you drop it off at
garage in two weeks time - er no! Explain how it left me stranded in the middle of a main road junction not able to move (originaly thought prop or
drive shaft had gone)....so they say we'll send out an engineer to come and check it out.
Next morning engineer turns up. He's actually a landrover nut (nice guy) but doesn't work for landrover just recovery company. So I
don't say anything to him, he opens the drivers door and says "clutch master cylinder has gone!" - pretty obvious as pedal is almost
to the floor! Puts it on back of lorry and recovers it to dealer. Two days later I get a phone call from main dealer and they say there's
nothing wrong with it and "do I know how to use the transfer box properly" at which point I went ballistic at them as we have another
landrover on the drive and I offroad them occasionaly....so yes! Anyway long story short they split engine and gearbox decide to replace a release
bearing which I had also told them was wrong but they said was my mum's clutch control! And put it back together.
2 weeks later I pick it up and drive down to the boarders....bonnet starts flapping about which I though was a bit strange....had a look and they
hadn't bolted the hinges back on!!! Went mental again (this time to CR at landrover direct), still no joy. Complete joke...I do all the work
on them now myself. Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 09:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clanger
a call from service manager with a diagnosed failed dual mass flywheel / clutch. Do you want us to remove gearbox, inspect and then do it if
neccesary? Do I have a choice ????????? Car was pretty undrivable, and no time for DIY.
£970
While they where in there they should have replaced it with a normal flywheel and clutch (you get kits) these do fail all the time
So far I've only ever had 1 repair/service in a garage - 1 new clutch that I bought (£60) and asked him to fit (small local garage) and he was
apologising about charging for 3.2 hours @ £35/hour (= £112)
old simple cars + good independent garage or DIY =
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Dave J
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 09:42 AM |
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Had a couple of experiences at main dealers.
At the 12 month service dealer rings me to tell me the front brake discs need replacing as worn below safe limits. Not possible says I as the car has
only done 7000 miles. dealer tries to insist that this is the case.
Right says I, I'll be down with my vernier calliper! Dealer starts to twitch.
Anyway, I compared my supposed worn discs with a new car. Barely any significant difference.
Dealer backtracks, mumbling something about mistaken car identity, a genuine mistake. Smacks of fraud doesn't it.
Episode 2: (different dealer)
Clutch cable retaining clip at pedal broke, rendering the clutch inoperable.
Managed to get the car to the dealer for warranty repair.
Phone call from dealer to tell me the clutch needs replacing as it is slipping, and they will replace for £350.(wear and tear not covered under
warranty)
Basically told them to get stuffed in no uncertain terms,as the clutch was perfectly ok before the retaining clip broke. Receptionist got twitchy when
I asked to speak to the mechanic.
mechanic said there wasn't a problem with the clutch.
Again lots of apologies....genuine mistake etc.
I wonder how many dealers are making on non existent faults, relying on the fact that not many would question their diagnosis through either lack of
knowledge or the brits way of not making a fuss.
Long warranties are all well and good, but if non existant wear and tear faults are dreamed up, you finish up paying in the end anyway
Damn it this sort of thing really gets me on my box. Trading standards ought to get to the bottom of this and name and shame.
Ah well spleen well and truely vented.
Cheers
Dave
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Coose
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 09:57 AM |
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My everyday transport (Datsun En-Trail) is a company car, so I tend not to get too fussed about the bizarre things that these 'apparent'
specialists charge for, but I managed to get a quick squint at the bill for the first service (12000 miles) the other week. On there was a charge of
about a fiver to drain and refill the washer bottle.
Refilling is one thing, but draining it????
Spin 'er off Well...
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Gav
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 09:59 AM |
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Took my Leon to a local Seat garage for a misfire problem under full boost, eventully they found out it was a faulty sparkplug, they said they would
replace the full lot to be sure which i said fine as it was really due a service anyway. Sometime later i was diagnosing a faulty coil pack and i
checked all the plugs, only 1 had been replaced
Same garage before i found the sparkplug i had an MOT done there, they said it failed because of play in the steering and would require a new steering
rack at something like 500 ish + fitting, obvisouly it didnt need a new rack, just a new trackrod becuase of a worn knuckle joint at £40!!
bastards
I actually sent a letter to Seat about it, never got a reply but the garage is no longer a Seat dealer!
Alos my cousin works for a large dealer in bradford and was stripping down a head to inspect the valves after the cam belt snapped, luckily they were
all fine, told his forman, who took a hammer to the valves and said it would need ALL the valves replacing
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 10:06 AM |
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Any main or ex main dealer mechanics prepared too tell the other side ?
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James
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 10:24 AM |
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I can quite accurately say that 95% of garages rip you off... reason I know this is that a recent study was conducted by Trading Standards and it was
they who found only 5% *didn't* rip them off!
And during the study it was found that main garages were no more less likely to rip off than independents (and the main garages charge more per hour
for the priviledge)!
Watchdog have highlighted this several times.
I'm very glad to have found what appears to be a competent and honest independent place not far from me... unfortunately this reputation seems
to be getting known as they can only take booking about a month in advance!
Cheers,
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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Guinness
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 10:38 AM |
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It's like a reverse lottery, you go in with your car, they kick you in the balls and see how much money they win from you.
Arse.
Mike
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Howlor
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 10:38 AM |
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Just a quick note about Seat as I feel that they have given good service. My wife had a Leon and has always had very good service from the two main
dealers we have used. Free courtesy car, very obliging, decent prices for service.
A couple of weeks ago just days before the car was 2 years old the exhaust went near the backbox, unfortunately the car does very short runs. I was
about to book it into Kwikfit for a new pipe and then thought Id give Seat a call. No problem Sir covered under warranty bring it in and we'll
fix it. Replaced nearly the full unit foc.
Steve
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Gav
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 10:44 AM |
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Actually i have to say that Seat at Preston have always seemed very good, its them who i took my car to too get the trackrod replaced, which i let
them diagnose first
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I love speed :-P
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 10:45 AM |
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My dad used to have a Landy Rover and always serviced it himself however he and my mum were going on holiday so my dad thought it would be better to
get the main dealers to do it as they were going a long way and he didn't want it to brake down. All was going well, until they were on the
motorway, and the rear axle ceased. When the AA brought them back, they noticed that the oil plug was missing. When they went back to the main
dealers, the plug was still there
Don't Steal
The Government doesn’t like the competition
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scottc
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 10:55 AM |
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G/F took her Ford Ka into a main dealer for a service 12,000 mile service last year.
They ring her and tell her the wipers need replacing @ £30
She can't get hold of me, so ask her boss for advise who says "get 'em to do it. Its easier"
When I find out, I remind her she paid £30 for a tyre six months ago - how much more rubber do you get on a tyre?
Same dealer tried to charge me £940 for the steering rack to be replaced, which included £26 for a litre of fluid?!?!
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ned
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 10:56 AM |
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Had to take my car to a vw dealer recently as i didn't have time to look at it myself. Fixed the fault within the hour diagnostic (boost hose
come off intercooler). I chase them mid afternoon as I hadn't heard (and needed the car back!) at which point they tell me they've found
£800 of other work that 'needs' doing - will you authorise the work - 'no' i say, i'll pick the car up by closing.
Service desk receptionist was quite shocked and repeated all the faults. I collect car and will check these myself then if they neeed doing get my
friendly local garage to do it for less than 1/3rd main dealers hourly rate. Some seem odd as car had only recently passed mot with flying colours.
and 2 days after getting the car back the sump guard is partly hanging off the underside of the car - no time yet to investigate but it's not
life threatening!
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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mcerd1
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 11:21 AM |
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I'm extremely lucky here 2 good reputable and fairly cheep garages within 5 miles (in East Lothian - I can give details if anyone wants )
+1 (race) engine builder with a bomb-proof rep. (builds lots of stock car engines - i.e. pinto's)
and the garage I use (when I'm not DIY'ing it) he's good at the every day stuff, doesn't charge much
and he used to build and rally his own cars (escort's + cortina's) apparently he even won a stage or two competing against the big boys
with a 2.0 pinto he build himself  - the perfect man to help me with my kit
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locoboy
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 11:23 AM |
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Our trucks at work are serviced by Scania main delaers and we do nothing but the odd bulb change to them ourselves.
We had a vehicle in for its regular service and a few days later the driver was in the yard washing off and i was goving him a hand. Got the cab
jacked up and to my horror i saw a 7lb sledge hammer resting in the engine compartment.
Now that would have been an interesting insurance claim had that come loose on the road and damaged something or worse someone.
Reported it to the dealer and tild them i was keeping the hammer too!
ATB
Locoboy
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 11:23 AM |
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My brother recently had the back of his Elise shunted by a prat in a Jeep Grand Cherokee whilst stopped in a traffic jam on the M25. Even though it
had mangled the exhaust and cracked the GRP the Jeep driver argued that there was no damage, and refused to give his insurance details until my
brother started dialing the police.
Rings his insurance company to sort things out, and it turns out they don't have any approved Lotus specialists so he is free to choose his own,
great. He took it to "Bel and Colvill" in Surrey who had a good reputation in the owners club. Rang insurance company to sort a hire
car, and was told that because he had not chosen an approved repairer he was not eligible for a car! After much smashing of head on wall and working
his way through the chain of command at insurers he got himself an Alfa GT.
Bel and Colvill were replacing the exhaust with one of their own stainless systems, repairing and respraying the GRP and replacing the undertray where
the bent exhaust had started to rub a hole in it. After two weeks they phone up and tell him that work is done, BUT they noticed the car was
overheating and were going to investigate. They phone back in the afternoon and tell him the head gasket has gone, but they can start work
immediately and it will be around £1200!!! Brother tells them no way, and IF gasket has gone he will do it himself. After lots of arguing and
suggesting my brother was not capable of doing this job, he went to pick the car up. The cheeky tw*ts then tried to charge him £100 odd for the hours
diagnostic work that he hadn't asked them to do. He went ballistic and they finaly agreed to drop the the charge.
Anyway, turns out the head gasket is in perfect order, as it was before he took the car in. We think they found the bottle of coolant he carries in
the boot (essential for any K series owner!) and assumed he must be topping it up regularly so tried it on.
He went to fit a decat pipe onto it last week and found they had replaced all the stainless bolts he had fitted to the exhaust with mild steel, and
replaced the almost new polyurethane hanger rubbers with standard parts, and hadn't replaced the undertray. Bel and Colvill denied everything
when challenged.
Without wishing to sterotype, a lot of Elise (and other sports car owners) don't get involved with repair and maintenance of their own cars
whatsoever apart from opening the cheque book, so I can only imagine how much unnecessary work these thieves have done in the past.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 11:56 AM |
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Its always a tricky one, this subject.
As somebody that does repair cars for others on (these days very limited) occasion, I can see both sides.
I will agree that a LOT of main dealers are a mad rip off. my dad had a fiat coupe 20v turbo, started to sound a bit tappety the day it was due for
its first service. i checked it and the oil was a bit low, but as it was due that day told him to just take it in. He brough ti back and it was still
tapping that evening. I checked the oil, which had not been changed. He told the dealer such and an argument ensued. We took the car back, I pushed
through the reception, into the workshop (persued by angry reception type person) and asked who had worked on the
car...................................turns out nobody did!!! The kid they employ washed and hoovered it out, but there was no time that day to
service the car, and as they had a lot of cars in from my dad's company they didn't want to say ti would be late so they just let it go
unserviced!!!
Lots more stuff like that there, no longer a main dealer suffice to say.
On the other hand, and this is especially true amongst smaller garages, their quoted prices may often seem expensive, but that is because driveshaft
threads DO sometimes strip, sumpplugs DO occasionally strip etc etc. What they do (and it seems main dealers do not) is fix it at no extra charge on
the quote. They quote a healthy margin on all work, knowing that on a crap day they will lose money, but on a good one they will gain.
The chap that goes in "undercover" for some TV programme or another always goes in on a good day and proclaims "RIPOFF" for
all to see, but misses the previous day where it all went wrong, despite the skilled mechanics doing the work, and the garage lost a grand to
replacement bits that they couldn't charge the customer for.
People are shocked to find that (on the odd occasion i do any jobs like this these days) I charge much the same as a local garage for jobs, despite
them "knowing" me!!! I point out that to make it worth my while I have to, as I am not interested in making £10 for half a days laying
under a filthy road car!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 12:19 PM |
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when i changed my air filter on my rover, i opened the filter box to find a snap-on pliers and a number of snap-on sockets and a snap-on
screwdriver
presumably from the dealer, as the previous owner had full dealer service history
[Edited on 12/12/06 by liam.mccaffrey]
Build Blog
Build Photo Album
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 12:39 PM |
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I do love main dealers. It5's bad enough that these days the chances are that the 'mechanic' looking at your car is a 16y.o.
apprentice who knows nothing more than how to plug in the computer and change all the parts it tells him to, instead of actually doing any diagnosing
himself, but the blatant rip-offs everyone seems to experience is obscene. Just to add mine, took the other halfs Alfa in the other week because
it's using silly amounts of oil, they tried to convince me that it's the ECU that needed changing (at £785) as 'they often start
saying low oil pressure for no reason mate'. Er, yeah OK, maybe it also needs a new dipstick because that must also be lying to me as well then?
And then there was my van, clutch cable snapped at the clutch end, so dealer decided it was a faulty clutch pedal (£140). And their usual
three-day-long servicing seems to have dropped the last couple of times to 'as long as it takes to wash it'...
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BenB
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| posted on 12/12/06 at 02:04 PM |
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I think nowadays FSH on an advert just means its been hoovered at least once a year.....
A few years ago when I first had my tintop the aerial connection kept on coming loose. It was under warranty so the first dealer up in Nottingham said
"fair enough" and replaced it. Job done.
Just under a year later it failed again. Down in London by then, took it along to the local dealer who said they'd replace it. Got the
traditional phone call from the MainDealer a few hours later.
MD: "we can't replace it under warranty because it's not a loose connection- the aerial's been vandalised"
ME: "how?"
MD: "someone's bent it- that's why it hasn't got a connection any more"
ME: "it doesn't look bent"
MD: "they've only done it very slightly so you can't really see it but it is bent, so it's not a warranty item. We can replace
it for £100 plus VAT plus fitting"
ME: "are you really trying to tell me that there is some devious vandal going around bending people's aerials just enough to stop them
from working but not enough so that they are visibly bent?"
MD: "I'm just saying you can't get it repaired under warranty"
ME: censored
Anyway, told them to kiss my chuddies and that I'd come down and collect it. Guess what, it appears that when they put the old one back they
accidentally put the new one in place.... Certainly the one that I drove off with wasn't the old one and the radio worked just fine.
So stupidly obvious what they'd done. Done it under warranty but fancied charging me as well. Should have reported them but of course
didn't......
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