coozer
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 posted on 26/8/07 at 05:43 PM |
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Induction Costs!
Right, I'm sick to death of people saying a zetec installation is more costly than a bike engine. Mines a 1.8 94 zetec with a type 9 on bike
carbs with megajolt.
I made my own inlet manifold that may or may not be up to the task... time will tell. Anyway at the moment it runs and ticks over at 800rpm so
I'm quite encouraged
I'd like to challenge the majority and see how much people have spent on an install, bike engine or zetec or otherwise...
All together I have spent £470, £230 of which was the engine and box. You can easily pick up an engine £100 cheaper than that
Thats engine, box, two sets of bike carbs, megajolt , fuel pump and all the associated bits and bobs.
Personally I see that as being a whole lot cheaper than any bike engine installation.
Who's taking the challenge to beat me up on the installation cost??
How much was yours??
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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StevieB
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 06:07 PM |
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I guess it only really compares when you have a car engine that can give the performance of a bike engine - only then is the BEC a cheaper option.
There was a CBR1000 on sale here recently for not an awful lot of money, that would also give you the full wiring loom and switchgear, as well as the
complete engine and ancilleries. It'd still have a lot of performance too.
I do think CEC will be easier to drive though, and as I plan to go racing eventually, I might go CEC next time.
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JoelP
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 06:09 PM |
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did you include exhaust and prop in the total?
I spent £300 on my first bike engine, 50 on clocks. Think that included loom and cdi etc. About a grand including exhaust and prop.
60 on prop adapter
[Edited on 26/8/07 by JoelP]
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 06:14 PM |
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all the right gear came on my donor car , and will be good enough for most power levels (needed in a seven), just needs the throttle linkage
repositioning and im set .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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smart51
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 06:26 PM |
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Brilliant Mr Coozer. You spent £470 on a zetec install. That's just great. 125 BHP standard, so what, 140 on bike carbs? Does't prove
that zetecs installs are necessarily cheaper than bike engines.
In any case, I thought the argument was that for the same acceleration, a bike engine install was cheaper than a zetec. I spent £670 on my R1 engine,
including loom, carbs and clocks. It makes a re-jetted 150 BHP at the rear wheels. Could you match that with your £200 saving?
Of course you could just fit your £50 zetec in as is but it wouldn't be as fast, which is the whole point. Tuning it up to be competitive is
the £xpensive part.
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D Beddows
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 07:01 PM |
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Why do we have to keep having this car engine vs bike engine argument? One isn't ultimately better than the other because each is better at
completely different things to the other ....so no one can ever possibly win the argument..... so why bother trying!?.....again.....and again.....and
again....
[Edited on 26/8/07 by D Beddows]
[Edited on 26/8/07 by D Beddows]
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coozer
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 07:11 PM |
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JoelP ~ The prices I quoted are purely engine and gearbox as that is what you get with bike engine. My costs include converting the induction side to
that you don't need to do on a bike engine.
We all have to buy propshafts and exhausts so they are not included.
I forgot to add the £30 I paid for 2L cams that should see me up to 155bhp.
I wasn't thinking about a cbr1000 engine but a couple of years ago I paid £160 for write off whole bike that ws perfect for a BEC... sold the
motor on to guy building a RH for £400
I posted this as I am curious about how much installations have cost.
Cheers all,
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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smart51
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 07:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
Why do we have to keep having this car engine vs bike engine argument?
Because it's one that never seems to end definitively. Its a balance between lots of things that no one engine wins out overall. All the most
fun arguments are like that.
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StevieB
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 07:22 PM |
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I'd ultimately say that car a car engine would be better for me, because it'd be more natural to drive, so I should be able to go
faster.
The reason I'm going BEC (for now) is that the performance per £ is greater (but, in all honesty, I'd probably be a better track driver
with a relatively sane car engine than a mad revving R1).
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stevebubs
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 07:27 PM |
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FWIW, my zetec install cost around £1500 but I spent £450 on a low mileage engine, and then went on to install an Emerald on Throttlebodies.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 07:55 PM |
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Bike engines are better than car engines in a seven. It's just that people who have built CEC's don't like to accept or admit it.
You see plenty of people on here converting from CEC to BEC but very few do it the other way round. I wonder why.....
Discuss
Phil
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 08:09 PM |
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I drove a 2 litre Vauxhall engined car the other day and sorry it did absolutely nothing for me whatsoever
all it felt like was a sprite version of the original astra it came from
Phils right a friend has just finished paying umpteen amounts for a RS170 engine conversion in his westie and hes spending more on setting the damn
ecu up than I could have done an R1 conversion for him which would still blow his car off he didnt realise this BECAUSE
People down the Pub ie his mates have
1. told him his car will be as fast as an R1 motorbike in a straight line!!!!!(the fact there serious worries me)
the Same people are specialists on the subject of BECs and a bike engine in a car is no good as it has no torque and the gearings crap!
Subject to say I dont argue with these people anymore
the passenger ride for the lad has confirmed the total opposite and Im taking the RS170 engine out on wednesday need I say more!
ta chris
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Avoneer
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 08:14 PM |
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What, you mean one of those high revving screamy things that tear your face of when you hit the limiter in every gear upto 120 something?
Hmmmm, don't think I'd like one of those.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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coozer
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 08:14 PM |
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No No No, my post has been hijacked by the BEC crew argument. Its not about the driving or performance. Its not about BEC V CEC. Only costs!
It's all about the cost of building a car.. The reason I ask is two fold.
1. When I was looking around the kit manufacturers I was given a kit price for a BEC then for a Zetec engine they wanted an extra 1K. You can all
speculate which manufacturer that was...
2. Newbies come on here and ask about the costs of building cars and people who have BEC's say "go for a bike engine, its
cheaper"
They say that because they are thinking about price V performance.
My last kit had a ZX9R engine in it and I cant argue against the performance... What I want to know and display to lurkers is the actual cost of
installing different engines.
The reason I went bike engine V zetec is because I see so many people who reckon a zetec install is expensive. I've not found it to be, and in
fact if you look in the latest PPC you can see it can be perfectly cheap against other installations.
[Edited on 26/8/07 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Avoneer
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 08:16 PM |
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Initial price of engine may be a lot cheaper with a car engine, but I think by the time your done, both installs are very similar.
Whatever floats your boat though as I'm now a bec convertee.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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StevieB
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 08:31 PM |
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Let's not get away from Coozer's original post and argue the virtues of which engine is better.
I'd reckon there wouldn't be a lot in it (cost wise) if you used an older bike engine (say, an old CBR1000 or similar), but you'd be
hard pushed to get much cheaper than using the engine from the donor you;d have to buy anyway (or the parts thereof).
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paulf
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 08:57 PM |
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I paid £70 for an engine , £30 for the type 9 box , built my own megasquirt at a cost of £120 plus £70 for gsxr throttle bodys and made my own
manifold and shortened the escort sump myself so total cost was about £300 for 150bhp.
I should have spent a bit more on the engine as it does use a little oil but is really a disposable item, although next time I will look for a black
top zetec.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Right, I'm sick to death of people saying a zetec installation is more costly than a bike engine. Mines a 1.8 94 zetec with a type 9 on bike
carbs with megajolt.
I made my own inlet manifold that may or may not be up to the task... time will tell. Anyway at the moment it runs and ticks over at 800rpm so
I'm quite encouraged
I'd like to challenge the majority and see how much people have spent on an install, bike engine or zetec or otherwise...
All together I have spent £470, £230 of which was the engine and box. You can easily pick up an engine £100 cheaper than that
Thats engine, box, two sets of bike carbs, megajolt , fuel pump and all the associated bits and bobs.
Personally I see that as being a whole lot cheaper than any bike engine installation.
Who's taking the challenge to beat me up on the installation cost??
How much was yours??
Steve
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Hellfire
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 09:04 PM |
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I don't recall many posts on here where people have said that a bike engine install is cheaper than a Zetec or even that fitting a Zetec is an
expensive option.
I'm sure there are members on here who have got their engines FOC regardless of whether car or bike origin.
Phil
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worX
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 09:58 PM |
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I paid £570 for my engine/gearbox, but that DOES NOT (in YOUR defence) include a reverse gear, and if we are comparing like for like you have to
include that!
But this argument will not be settled here (as you stated in a second or third post) because of too many a variety of reasons!!!
The BEC Fraternity know one thing and know it bloody well - 11,000revs = Big FUN, Big GRINS and Big ENJOYMENT!
There are lots of people on here that are convinced that a CEC is the way forward and they are VERY RIGHT to do so (for their own reasons)! I had a
conversation this very evening with an EX BEC owner who it just didn't suit (taking into account his whinging partner) and I recommended to him
a zetec install kitcar - if he recommended the same to me I would have guffawed with laughter, the remainder of the conversation at him!
I have owned bikes for years, and have done many trackdays on them, so a BEC with 4 wheels will ALWAYS be what I want to RAG THE CRAP OUT OF - FOR
FUN!!!!!!!!!!
Steve
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 09:59 PM |
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The whole BEC -v- CEC is pointless and merely serves to get on my tits.
They do two different things very differently. Not everyone wants their car to sound like a demented washing machine that doesn't have any
carpet because the clutch is already on the ragged edge; and not everyone wants to have a car that weighs in over 600kg.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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austin man
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 10:02 PM |
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my zetec instal cost £80 for the engine 100 for the twin 40s, £100 for the ECU free donor vehicle truly a locost if you ask me.
As a track day vehicle BEC have got to have the edge but for a road car and touring I think CEC will win especially when you look at ecomnomy and
noise levels CEC can get 30 plus per gallon unfortunayely not when Im driving it would appear
Oh and if BEC are best why can't they seem to catch the Atom ???????
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 10:16 PM |
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washing machine hehe!!!
and how much is the Atom again
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jonno
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| posted on 26/8/07 at 10:20 PM |
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I'm doing a pinto to zetec conversion at the moment, its about £450 spent so far thats a 1.8 with st170 inlet, 929 fireblade throttle bodies,
exhaust manifold, engine mounts and megasquirt, new clutch etc
having fun on a budget 
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D Beddows
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| posted on 27/8/07 at 12:07 AM |
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Bike engine or car engine all comes down to what you want from the car - who you know, what you know and what you have lurking around the garage
will determine how cheap it is.......
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RazMan
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| posted on 27/8/07 at 10:02 AM |
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I know that my car is not a Seven but my V6 & gearbox cost me £500, another £800 for the ecu  (MS next time) 200bhp straight away with another
100bhp waiting on my work bench in the form of a turbo 
The CEC / BEC debate will always continue - it all depends on what you need out of your car in terms of performance vs comfort. My car does 0-60 in
4.2secs, will cruise all day at 100+ and doesn't make your ears bleed
 
BEC Demon
[dons fireproof suit]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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