Alan B
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 04:18 PM |
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Anyone been following the FBS Census story?
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=7309
Finally gone bust it seems.
Supposedly a decent handling car, but warnings about it's "controversial" looks apparently ignored.....
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Noodle
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 04:21 PM |
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Anyone know if these were the two guys from Rover who went solo?
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Alan B
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 04:41 PM |
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Could be.
I'm sure they were definitely ex. some big car firm....
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Noodle
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 07:37 PM |
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A losing formula, replicated across the land.
I still don't understand why so many people try and re-invent the 2 seater sports car here in the UK. Often they buy an old British name
(Lea-Francis, Jensen etc) and make an impractical car. Every time I hear a new one I shudder. What's the point? They're fighting in a
market already saturated with 2 seater sports cars MX-5's MG-F's, MR2's etc that are available at a reasonable price 3rd hand. The
new cars don't add anything to the equation, apart from a high price tag.
Seven-types are a classic and exempt from any form of logic, other that in it's purest form; minimalist. When Cateringvan did the 21, no-one
bought it. MX-5's don't break down. And have windows.
IMHO*, what's really needed is a cheap, high power-to-weight ratio practical RWD car with looks, much in the same veign as the Scimitar GTE. It
combined 4-seat estate-like practicality, with cracking good looks and a torque-bastard of a motor (for it's time).
Now if the company who poured a bunker of cash into the Jensen project had tried to pull that off, they might have found a few buyers.
The people making a success of such machine are BMW and Mercedes. Other manufacturers have a go but always compromise on the drivetrain. They base it
on a mini-bloody-Metro and stick big alloys on. Hey Presto! A meaningless "Sport" moniker.
BTW, I don't care that Alfa do an estate and Volvo and Rover and SAAB and.. etc and that they're 4WD or FWD. I want a cheap, simple,
practical, powerslide-able mini-roundabout fun tools.
That's a winner. I'd stake 4 cans of mild on it.
I could go on about this, but blood pressure and common sense reign me in. 
Neil.
I know about Alan B's project and the various others. They're aimed at the U.S. though and they are, err, different. Slightly. In a
nice kind of way.
* I'm so worked up, humble is inappropriate. Hothead perhaps?
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Alan B
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Noodle
......Seven-types are a classic and exempt from any form of logic, other that in it's purest form; minimalist.........
...........I know about Alan B's project and the various others. They're aimed at the U.S. though and they are, err, different. Slightly.
In a nice kind of way.......
Thanks (I think..)
I agree with most of your points...my aim is to create a minimalistic "seven" type of car but with modern styling and mid-engine......I
think if I could sum-up the nature of the problem in one word, that word would be....doors.
Nothing wrong with doors per se, it is just they they are representative of "normal" cars...and, as you say. the big buys are rather good
at making "normal" cars....
Specialist manufacturers must offer what the big boys don't (the definition of "niche market" really)....namely some different, fun
and insanely quick for the money...
That's my two-pennorth's worth...
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robinbastd
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 10:04 PM |
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So FBS,CCC and TAS have gone tits up in the last few days............motto of the story-don't use 3 letters for your company name.
FBS,the demo car at B'ham last year was woefully finished.Not a great way of enticing £27k out of people.
CCC magazine turned itself into maxpower without the tits..........at least maxpower had the tits printed in it as opposed to writing most of it.
TAS,did anyone ever hear anything good about them?
Only a dead fish swims with the tide.
http://smuttygifts.com/
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 10:11 PM |
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The last time I read CCC, the tech ti(t)ps section told you which colour needles to use when you had bored your MGB (another 3 letter name!) out to
1801cc!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 10:19 PM |
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I think the key to it is the money.
You can build a seven type for six or seven grand.
A decent cobra costs 20k up.
In my view you would be nuts, unless you were a real cobra freak, to spend 20k on a car thats made of second hand bits.
You could but an mx5 and have 3k change for that.
Asking for lots of money for a kit car, in my view, has no mass appeal.
Im building a car, probably 51% because I want to have that experience. 49% is the driving. Joe public in general wants a flashy car without the oily
rag, metal bashing bits.
Its a small market.
There are cars like the GTM that are really nice - if they came ready made my wife would have one. BUT - would it cost 11k, have a brand new 115 hp
engine, air con, auto lights on, lekky windows, rain sensitive wipers, emergency brake assist a stereo, abs and airbags.
Probably not.
A new renault megane does. Can you build a 2 seater sports for that...without it being a seven - from new parts....I guess not.
Small market and way too many kit providers.
atb
steve
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 10:32 PM |
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Only the best run businesses survive, unfortunately, running a good business and making a good car are not necessarily the same.
Some excellent cars have gone by the wayside and some real cr4p has survived, particularly around the Mansfield area!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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thekafer
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 11:19 PM |
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Mass apeal and the humble seven
[Asking for lots of money for a kit car, in my view, has no mass appeal.
Im building a car, probably 51% because I want to have that experience. 49% is the driving. Joe public in general wants a flashy car without the oily
rag, metal bashing bits.]
This thread makes me realize why Mr.chapmans' simple design is so popular.
Even in the states the seven(especially the locost)is catching on like wild fire.
You guys (meaning the British)really do the two seater right!
I think the biggest threat to the "kit car" industry has been Ron Champions book!
With kit car prices climbing into the exotic car range it does seem like they forgot the point does'nt it.
 Fletch
[Edited on 13/9/03 by thekafer]
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy...
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 13/9/03 at 06:47 PM |
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another good point with the seven is its about the easiest, minimalist car you can build.
Unless you do what I did....
atb
steve
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Spyderman
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| posted on 13/9/03 at 07:55 PM |
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Steve,
We were wondering how you would get to mention your build in this thread!
Spyderman
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Alan B
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| posted on 13/9/03 at 07:58 PM |
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Oh, is Steve building something a bit different?
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 13/9/03 at 08:42 PM |
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its been ages since I used my stock phrase, which im not even gonna mention now....
gimme a break
atb
steve
who is building a morgan look alike based on a locost.
I lied!
See what happens when ya take the pi$$
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Alan B
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| posted on 13/9/03 at 08:57 PM |
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Funny thing is you aren't the only doing something different.....
Just the only one who gets noticed mentioning it....
Mine's a dead standard book build..... oh yeah......
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Noodle
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| posted on 13/9/03 at 10:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Joe public in general wants a flashy car without the oily rag, metal bashing bits.
Agreed. However, where are the simple, cheap, practical,
appealing cars that could be made in the RWD mould. Practicality, RWD and air-con. I don't want the bloody thing littered with useless buttons
like our Omega. Electric seats? Christ what a waste of weight/effort.
It shouldn't cost that much surely?
Neil.
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/9/03 at 11:29 PM |
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On the subject of Omegas...
My pal was taking the wee out of my omega elite, saying i needed a jag to get real features, and that it was worth paying twice as much for an older
car...
So i asked him where his button for the electric rear blind was, he was sick when he saw i had one!
Complete waste of effort though, but good for a laugh! if gloits have their fogs on you can turn yours on, drive with the brake on (auto) and put the
blind up!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 14/9/03 at 10:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
Funny thing is you aren't the only doing something different.....
Just the only one who gets noticed mentioning it....
Mine's a dead standard book build..... oh yeah......
Its the bitching about it that keeps me sane....
The complexity of your build made me realise long ago you are made of stronger stuff, are totally nuts, or have deep pockets and lots of time.
atb
steve
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Alan B
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| posted on 14/9/03 at 09:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
.........The complexity of your build made me realise long ago you are made of stronger stuff, are totally nuts, or have deep pockets and lots of
time.
atb
steve
Stronger stuff?....doubt it, for me the forum and doing the website keep's me motivated.
Totally nuts?......absolutely..
Deep pockets?....not sure how deep they are...but, I am sure there is very little in them..
Lots of time?....maybe more than the average builder, but I'd love more....
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