speedyxjs
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:20 AM |
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Using power steering without the power steering?
To keep costs down, im planning to use my donor steering. Problem is its power steering. Sure i could have power steering in a locost but a) its added
weight and b) does one really need power steering in a car that weigh's (hopefully  ) less than 1 ton?
What options, if any, do i have other than buying a new, non powered one?
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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tegwin
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:23 AM |
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The ratios in power steering racks are not suitable to be used with no hydraulics...
The steering would be heavy... have you ever tried to turn the wheel of a power steered car with the enigne off whilst moving?...its hard!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:27 AM |
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If it wasnt plumbed in it would fail the MoT. However if this wasnt an issue it wouldnt be any harder to turn than a car with a quick rack.
Mistral Motorsport
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:27 AM |
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What are you like? why don't you just buy a second hand rack or get one from the scrappy rather than run a powered rack without an oil supply,
damn thing is likely to seize and I doubt an MOT inspector would ever pass that far less the SVA guy.
btw I love the cost saving approach to building a car that will need your own oil well to run
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loggyboy
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:31 AM |
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If you want a quick rack and light steering then fit an EPAS column from a Corsa or similar.
Mistral Motorsport
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smart51
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:35 AM |
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Hydraulic steering racks are designed to run full of oil. You can't run them without. You have to have a circuit to move the oil as you turn
or you'll have hydraulic lock. Think of a hydraulic steering rack as two hydraulic rams with a rack and pinion in them. The rack and pinion is
secondary to the hydraulics.
You have to buy a manual steering rack.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:40 AM |
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I dont think his intention was to run it dry, he was planning on fitting the full system.
If you did want to thos this you could get an Electric PAS pump from a saxo/106 that would allow you to run the system without having to link the pas
pump to the engine.
Mistral Motorsport
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
I dont think his intention was to run it dry, he was planning on fitting the full system.
Thats right. I would struggle to find a non powered rack of the right width
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:54 AM |
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With that bloody great engine over the front wheels I would have thought PAS would be a good idea! Then you can have a nice quick rack without the
steering being very heavy.
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smart51
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 09:58 AM |
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In that case, you have 2 options. Connect the PAS to the pump on the engine. Connect the pas to an electric pump. I think the polo had one. Some
electric pumps run a 2 speeds, slow when there is little steering and fast when there is a lot.
Hydraulic has a valve in the column. The more torque you apply to the wheel, the more the valve opens, sending pressure to the rack. This hydraulic
pressure assists you in the steering. The assistance is governed by the stiffness of the torsion spring in the column and the opening profile of the
valve. It is not advisable to do a DIY change on either. Whatever assistance ratio the system is set up to give, is what you get.
I'm guessing now but if you geared the pump down a bit, you would have less hydraulic pressure and perhaps less assistance. Maybe.
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trogdor
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 10:06 AM |
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I drove my astravan back from devon with no power steering after the power steering pump belt had to be cut off by the AA man to refit the alternator
one behind it. He said it would be fine, am not amused if it could of broken my steering apart from the fun of driving it home like that, fine on the
motorway not fun on roundabouts or parking.
Its not nice to drive it like that trust me. The AA man also lied about rounded power steering pump bolts, just didn't want to get on his back
to fix it, so i had too. If it had been my wife driving the car rather than me i would of made him tow us back as there would of been a good chance of
her crashing, I nearly did a few times!
I think i have ranted about this before on here so will stop now.
[Edited on 2/10/08 by trogdor]
[Edited on 2/10/08 by trogdor]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 11:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
I dont think his intention was to run it dry, he was planning on fitting the full system.
Thats right. I would struggle to find a non powered rack of the right width
then why did you head the post as -
Using power steering without the power steering?
anyway, I still have my doubts the earths crust can support the cars weight...
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 11:17 AM |
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I didnt know if there was any way to use it without the power. I heard something about just putting fluid in the rack and joining the pipes (or
something like that) and didnt know if it was true
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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donut
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 11:32 AM |
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Although you really should buy a proper rack i admire you for thinking Locost!!
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 12:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by donut
Although you really should buy a proper rack i admire you for thinking Locost!!
I have to. I need another car and am getting a race license in a few months
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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Liam
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 12:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
Thats right. I would struggle to find a non powered rack of the right width
Huh how come? How wide is your chassis at the front wishbone mounts? It's the inner pivot points of the rack that really matter so you can
dial out bump steer. Overall width is a non-issue as you can extend the track rods. I'd be surprised if a non-powered sierra rack or something
even narrower didn't turn out to be ideal.
If it really isn't, back in the days when men were men (about L/M reg) you could get a transit van with no power steering. That was fun to park
 . That be wide enough for ya?
Liam
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 2/10/08 at 04:07 PM |
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in keith tanners book and on his website he details the steps and mods he made to his miata pas rack, ill see if i can find the page
http://www.cheapsportscar.net/diary.php?UID=6
his description in the book is more in depth
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