mistergrumpy
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 09:41 AM |
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If there's a full on demo then I'd have guessed that there was a dispersion order. No one wanting to keep out of trouble and just go home
walks right through the front line of a demonstration like that. His body language to me suggests he was expecting something. Hands in pockets
shoulders shrugged as though trying to sink his head lower to protect it and hunched slightly.
Out of interest Ben, I know the mechanics of a heart attack but not too sure on all the triggers. Could this stumble and fall realistically have
caused a heart attack and how?
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 09:44 AM |
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As I understand it the Police have the right to disperse any gathering of more than 20 people if they feel that they are a threat to the peace... this
rule was used to break up a owners club meeting because they stopped in convoy near Balmoral.
I am unable to find a link to the article about Human rights (which i know weakens my point) but as i remember it there were 3 main points on which we
were seen as failing... Data retention (ID cards and illegal DNA databases etc), Intrusion into privacy (CCTV cameras etc) and retention without
trial (the 'anti terrorism' laws allowing detention without access to a lawyer etc for upto whatever amount of day they are allowed these
days!)
All that being said.. I think this comes under the category of 'shit happens'....
the guy was obviously at risk from heart attack and it could have happened at any time. If he was entirely inncoent why was he there? All
'sensible' people whjo work in the city (myself included) stayed well away. so what if he was pushed? would we have this discussion if
someone else was pushed over, then stood up and walked off? of course not... the guy was ill and in all likely hood didnt know it himself let alone
the policeman knowing it!
what next? sorry you cant arrest me officer because im allergic to prison cells??
well thats my opinion and i fully expect to get flamed.. but as it stands , for now, I am entitled to it  some would like to see that otherwise!
[Edited on 8-4-09 by DaveFJ]
[Edited on 8-4-09 by DaveFJ]
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 09:48 AM |
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Criminal, justice and public order bill 1994 - allows the dispersion of unauthorised gatherings. Originally brought in because of illegal raves in the
90's.
I'm not that sad I just had cause to very briefly mention it in a presentation I did on Friday. 
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coozer
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 10:28 AM |
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Well I watched the event live on Sky, it was 7.30pm, way after the main protest clash and the Police were not dispersing rather containing the
population, and did anyone see the other batten charges into the crowd? Totally unnecessary in my view.
There was no reason whatsoever to baton him across the back of the legs and push him over. That copper needs charging with assault.
I reckon if there had been no police there the crowd would have left hours before and the man might still have been alive.
There will be a cover up.
And yes Mike, I believe we are heading to a partial police state, although its been going on for years.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 11:37 AM |
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I think many of you would be AMAZED at what the police can and cannot do under the public order bill. It almost makes them judge jury and executioner
on many things.
Feel sorry for the guy and his familly BUT at the end of the day most folk would just have steered well clear.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Staple balls
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 11:52 AM |
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Police state? Heading that way IMO.
But in this case, it was just one stupid person doing one excessive thing that resulted in someone dropping dead.
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coozer
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 01:20 PM |
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Theres some interesting accounts on the Guardian website..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/08/g20-ian-tomlinson-death-witnesses
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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oldtimer
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| posted on 9/4/09 at 10:13 AM |
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If the police officer is found to have done the wrong thing and is prosecuted and no longer works for the ploice that is a good thing as it will allow
the vast majority of the police who do a good job under very difficult conditiond to continue. Weeding out the unstable police increases the
competence levels of those that remain. My sympathies are with the man's family.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 9/4/09 at 12:03 PM |
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Maybe we don't know the whole story...
...as many have said above, there are usually several sides to a story...
Lo
ndon Evening Standard
It's worth noting that this paper is normally very critical of the government and its agencies.
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