quote:Originally posted by britishtrident
Head line reads Turkeys Vote for Xmas.
Little England has just caused a global financial crisis and threatened the long term stability and security of the western world.
Next on the cards Scotland will break with the UK.
First Minister of Scotland just on the telly now saying that Brexit has indeed just triggered the clause for Indy Ref 2.
quote:THE issue for me is that the EU is run by a group of faceless unelected Eurocrats. As bad as one may think our politicians are at least they
are democratically elected.
Sorry, you're wrong. British critics of the EU like to argue that Britain is losing control to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels (by which they
mainly mean the European Commission). While the senior staff of the Commission are indeed unelected, so are bureaucrats almost everywhere, including
those in Whitehall. And those staff – as well as being appointed by the elected governments of the member states, and being subject to confirmation in
their positions by the elected European Parliament, and having to report regularly to the EP – cannot make final decisions on EU law or policy. Those
decisions are made by the Council of Ministers (consisting of ministers from the elected governments of the member states) and the elected EP.
Furthermore, the general direction of the EU is guided by the European Council, consisting of the elected heads of government (or state) of the 28 EU
member states. And all the EU institutions are accountable to the treaties and the European Court of Justice. The idea that there is a European
government in Brussels with independent powers is nothing more than a myth.
And while you are looking at democratic behaviours, we could also turn our attention to our own House of Lords (appointed not democratically elected),
and the disproportional representation in the House of Commons.
Sadly it seems that there was an abundance of scare tactics and a distinct lack of checking whether these were facts, distortions or just outright
lies.
I feel this is a sad day on the whole. Just as we were out of recession and starting to grow we decide to bin off our biggest export market, daves
going, labour are squabbling amongst themselves (as usual I suppose) and scotland will now inevitably become independent.
I haven't spoken to anyone who voted leave actually make a good argument for doing so.
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Building: Stuart Taylor ST1100 V4 BEC (built)
posted on 24/6/16 at 12:02 PM
LOL! And the U-turns start here.
Fricking big red bus for the "vote leave" said
"We send the EU £350 million a week let's fund our NHS instead"
Now comes the shocking news that not all the money's going to go to the NHS.
Shortly followed no doubt by the explanation that the £350m doesn't account for the money we get back from the EU so we're never going to
see anywhere near £350m let alone spent it on the NHS.
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Building: Stuart Taylor ST1100 V4 BEC (built)
posted on 24/6/16 at 12:03 PM
The only upside is we might become a nation of boat builders again. Our dramatically devalued pound will make our products very cheap for the rest of
Europe. And the French will no doubt want lots of boats to give the asylum seekers when they disband the Calais camps
Haven't much idea of what it really means for the UK apart from another Scottish referendum. And I'm sad Cameron ran such a pathetic
transparent shock/horror campaign. Corbyn was even more pathetic.
What it may well mean for the EU is a radical rethink and general renegotiation of terms for the remaining nations to ward off a domino effect of
leavers. Might even end up with the sort of EU we could have wanted to stay in.
quote:Originally posted by djtom
The idea that there is a European government in Brussels with independent powers is nothing more than a myth.
So all the thousands of laws which were allegedly made by the EU and to which member countries had to comply with are a myth? Who made these laws if
not the EU?
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Building: Finished Locost, now fitting type 9 box
posted on 24/6/16 at 12:31 PM
Dusty, I think you may have hit it on the head. However based on Camerons supposed negotiations that were supposed to be so successful there was never
any chance of us getting anything meaningful out of the EU. Sure there will be some short, medium and even long term negative effects by Exiting but
the ever present continued slide to a United States of Europe was highly unlikely to have stopped based on history. Think about it, it was the EEC,
thats European Economic Community, originally. Certainly isnt that today by a country mile.
There is no part of this referendum that is actually a legal requirement that the government now, or in the future has to go ahead with. It's
basicly been a yes or no question to the population to see what we think. There is only 650 people in the country (government) that currently has any
say and the majority of them are in the remain camp. The 2011 referendum was a legally binding vote, this one is not.
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Building: Stuart Taylor ST1100 V4 BEC (built)
posted on 24/6/16 at 02:04 PM
The amusing thing is the google trends feature in the hours after the result. Top results were "What is the EU" and "What is the
impact of leaving the EU".
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Building: Hatred of Loughborough's Speed Humps
posted on 24/6/16 at 03:14 PM
The Government is London, London is Financial Services (money printing) London's elite have done little to engage the rest of the country.
The rest of the country have had a chance to say something, it has. I don't believe the voters really understood, or cared about the EU bit, I
believe they simply spoke. Enough has been enough.
What happens now is awe inspiringly interesting. The EU wasn't stable, it certainly is less so now, this is all going to get quite deep.
Another Scottish Neverendum coming soon!
Hadrian's/Trump's wall, be it Scotland, Ireland or Mexico.
Those who had nothing to loose voted out, now they will still have nothing but they have dragged everyone down too! At least the lorry full of non EU
migrants will stop as little point turning up here. As said we were doing well for once and decide to give it all up!
Be carful what you wish for...
" I only registered to look at the pictures, now I'm stuck with this username for the rest of my life!"
quote:Originally posted by coozer
However I do not see any problems as we go forward, currency will recover and stock markets will recover to go on making millions for the
elite...
Does it not slightly bother you that the bulk of the UK's GDP comes from 'financial sevices'. Nothing tangible - just numbers flying
through the ether.
Will London continue to be the European financial powerhouse that it currently is now that the UK has voted to leave the EU? I seriously suspect not
and can see the big-hitters relocating to continental Europe... Zurich, Frankfurt, Brussels, etc.
So where do we make up that lost GDP if it dos comes to pass? Our industries have been allowed to rot whilst 'The City' has been protected
at all costs.
I think Indy Ref 2 will see the UK split. I'm reasonably comfy that Scotland still has the infrastructure to survive. I'm not so sure
about other parts of the UK though.
I'm not sure what all this doom and gloom is about, while I understand that if you voted in you are as Bill Shankly would have put it "
1st last" if you look around the world there are many countries doing " very nicely thank you" all you need is the right people in
charge ( I know this might be a problem) and the right attitude of the population. At the moment our manufacturing output is around 7% gdp,
let's start helping these guys boost this up, let's start producing again, why can't we become a power house again. We have some
fantastic designers and engineers in this country, let's put them to work rather than let them stock shelves or waste away. If other countries
can do it so can we.
quote:Originally posted by Shooter63
I'm not sure what all this doom and gloom is about, while I understand that if you voted in you are as Bill Shankly would have put it "
1st last" if you look around the world there are many countries doing " very nicely thank you" all you need is the right people in
charge ( I know this might be a problem) and the right attitude of the population. At the moment our manufacturing output is around 7% gdp,
let's start helping these guys boost this up, let's start producing again, why can't we become a power house again. We have some
fantastic designers and engineers in this country, let's put them to work rather than let them stock shelves or waste away. If other countries
can do it so can we.
It was always going to be a difficult process, as on one hand the populous needed to take the time to learn about the EU (of which we vary from fairly
to totally ignorant) and on the other Johnson, Farage & Gove had full license to paint a world of Empires, villains, Unicorns and don't
worry - of course we'll get to keep the few good bits of the EU. Against that I understand (though don't agree) why the remain campaign
started flying headlines bull in line with leave.
Being employed in the 7% bit of the GDP - I am really, really worried. We've gone from a strong playing field in which we could compete fairly
in a market with capacity supported by trade agreements driven by the size. If we really leave (like really reject everything) we will just be having
to do what we currently do in a more difficult environment. Supporting manufacturing is all well and good - but only if you're able to sell
what you make.
I'm also sort of surprised that some of the low level benefits that we as EU citizens now take for granted never surfaced - E111 as a single
example - better plan Travel insurance for 2 years time!
While it really is a bit late, if anybody hasn't taken the 28minutes to watch Prof Michael Douglas
(Linky) explain it all (Liverpool University) i'd really recommend it - even if just to
understand the challenge of the next 2 years....
quote:Originally posted by gregs
While it really is a bit late, if anybody hasn't taken the 28minutes to watch Prof Michael Douglas
(Linky) explain it all (Liverpool University) i'd really recommend it - even if just to
understand the challenge of the next 2 years....
Greg
I shared that with a mate, who claimed it was sponsored by the EU!!
quote:Originally posted by gregs
While it really is a bit late, if anybody hasn't taken the 28minutes to watch Prof Michael Douglas
(Linky) explain it all (Liverpool University) i'd really recommend it - even if just to
understand the challenge of the next 2 years....
Greg
I shared that with a mate, who claimed it was sponsored by the EU!!
It should have read Dougan not Douglas - over excited spell check! -
I love the claims that were made to rubbish facts in this debate - especially when the only facts were about the past/known.... they seem to have
been confused with made up facts about the future!!!
As an aside, if the EU were sponsoring it they've done well getting in there 16+ years before the referendum to groom him into saying,
completing research & publishing papers and (in my opinion believing) the 'right' things!.
As an aside, really sad moment for me today was an 80yr old WW2 veteran interviewed and crying on the radio because he genuinely believed we had
defeated the Germans again that his friends died for - really really sad.
So all the thousands of laws which were allegedly made by the EU and to which member countries had to comply with are a myth? Who made these laws if
not the EU?
We have, and have always had, the power to vote against any law that we didn't want. In fact, the British government has voted against EU laws
only 2% of the time since 1999
Official EU voting records show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted
‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999. In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the
losing side 2%.
Why was this? Well, possibly because EU laws aren't all bad, contrary to the scaremongers. Maternity pay? Annual Leave? Working hours directive?
Workers rights? All EU legislation. If only you had done some research before voting....
There's been nonsense spoken by both sides in the lead upto this, but then there always is in this country in the run up to elections etc so we
should be used to it
We all took part in a democratic process, some will be pleased with the result and others won't be
What always pi**sses me off though is those that moan about the result that couldn't be bothered to get up off their arses and vote
The NHS was never going to be given extra money straight away (however many millions) and rightly so as there is a great deal of waste within it
(I see it everyday)
We have a very skilled and productive workforce in this country who are also bound by fairly strict employment law so I doubt the foreign car makers
will bail straight away without giving it some very serious consideration
You only have to look what is happening in France with strikes and 'burning tyres' etc to see that it might be a poor move for them ?
It'll sort itself out, What the markets don't need though is daft press headlines that will scare folk
Its unprecedented what has gone on and there are many un-answered questions, One thing is for sure, the answers won't come over night...
