mcerd1
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| posted on 23/6/06 at 03:05 PM |
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That reminds me - my degree was quite relevant and vocational (mech eng is a very general degree but quite practical)
but the only reason I'm able to do my job is that I spent more than 9 months working with another engineer who trained me as we went along (a
sort of informal apprenticeship) obviously the same is true for most professions
but most of the jobs I've seen advertised are asking for experienced people and no one is prepared to take on graduates (as was mentioned above
companies don't want to make long-term investments in people)
I'm happier designing things, but when I was leaving Uni I would have considered being a production engineer or similar, but no one wants
someone with lots of paper qualifications and no experience
when the government up here had there last little push to get companies to take on apprentices they picked BAE as an example, they take on people
leaving school (17-18) with a few highers or A levels - then start them working and as the progress through the company, if they are good enough, they
get the chance at the college courses and degrees and eventually chartered engineers (some of them were in my course at uni)
or alternatively they could become managers
This is in my opinion the best possible way to train engineers who are going to deal with the practical end of the business
(apart from anything else there is nothing worse than a manager who doesn't no anything about what they are supposed to be managing)
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 23/6/06 at 03:16 PM |
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I still say it's things as below that are the trouble these days.
health and safety (It does have its place)
treat everyone like they are idiots (after a while they'll believe it)
I can't do that cause I have'nt been shown how to(well neither was the first person to do it)
sorry thats not my job mate type (I'm a lazy fcuck get some one who cares)
These people will get along just fine and prolly be happier and less stressed out than the hard working caring guy who gets all the sh*t and just does
it (for the same money to)
As a school board member I asked about metalwork at school these days (for exactly the reason this thread was started)
A school period lasts 40 mins and there are circa 20 in the class with one teacher.
That gives each pupil 2 mins per period on a machine (one to one tuition for H and S) two periods a week and roughly 36 weeks per year for two full
years thats Under 5 hours tuition on a machine (only if they get it every lesson.
It's not much wonder that when they come into industry they stand around like furniture with a glazed expression. After all they've got a
two year gcse in it.
Rant over
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cossey
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| posted on 23/6/06 at 05:41 PM |
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around 85% of the people on my degree go into banking/finance which is frankly astonding for supposedly the top engineering university in the country
on a very popular course (mech eng) the main reasons are firstly the course is so theory based and gear to solving generalised problems that most
people dont really have a clue what engineering actually involves (they seem to only be interested in grooming potential research students)
secondly many students want to /have to do summer work which should be a good source of expencience so you dont leave uni with just a piece of paper a
few formulae and a hangover but mostly engineering companies seem disinterested at best whereas the banks are very hot on both actively trying to
recruit potential employees for the future and giving the students good experiences and decent money.
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clanger
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| posted on 23/6/06 at 06:21 PM |
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Something needs to be done to help stimulate interest in youngsters in persuing a career in engineering. What ? I don't know, but the dumbing
down of technical subjects at school and the push towards IT / Business subjects instead must be evened out.
I have had first hand experience of the apathy towards a career in engineering, and its not a pretty sight.
Over the last ten years I've probably mentored approx 15+ apprentices, of that amount I would have given possibly, 6 a chance of the training in
the first instance !
Many were employed because of nepotism, and were only doing it because they did'nt get the qualifications they needed at school to persue
whatever career they first thought of (pop star, football player, big brother contestant, model....whatever) and therefore could'nt think of
anything else to do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Many of them have scraped through the training and are not really that bothered whether they learn anything or not. The most treasured item in their
immaculate tool box is the bloody mobile phone they always seem to be thumbing at.
Also
I just finished an evening course in CNC programming at the local college and the lecturer had some horror stories, reinforcing some of the stories in
this thread.
One student had moved to the college from another area, and had already completed 2 years of his 3 year course in Engineering studies. First day of
practical on the lathe in the workshop, and the puzzled student is unable to set the tool in the tool holder prior to facing off and beginning the
exercise. Turns out all of his previous training had been purely theory, even though his first two years had been signed off by the previous assesor !
He had never even switched on a lathe in two years let alone made any swarf.
Again, as a sign of the times, the CNC course I did had a total of 9 students average age approx 39. Five years ago there were 4 classes/week with
avearge 15 to 20 students per session.
The lesiure & tourism faculty is bursting at the seams though.....................
[Edited on 23/6/06 by clanger]
[Edited on 23/6/06 by clanger]
[Edited on 23/6/06 by clanger]
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 23/6/06 at 06:27 PM |
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It doesn't help that we all (me included) want the cheapest never mind where its from ?
Shoes ?
TV's. in fact all electrical goods.....?
Cars ?
Clothes ?
Not so long ago I worked at an engineering company, we made amongst other things back arms and buckets for JCB, we lost the contract too a Chezc
company who quoted a complete painted assembled arm for less than we could get materials for.........
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smart51
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| posted on 23/6/06 at 07:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
a Chezc company who quoted a complete painted assembled arm for less than we could get materials for...
That's why I say that we can't compete on price so we should do something different.
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 23/6/06 at 09:39 PM |
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We did it to ourselves.
We let people from third world countries come to our universities, so that they could qualify, go home and develope 20th century companies paying 16th
century wages. ( No I'm not a racist, it's just a fact of life. We helped them to learn in five years, what took us four hundred).
Company directors moved manufacturing to the far east to improve short term profitability. They didn't consider that when the workforce that
they made redundant would not be able to afford their products and neither will the workers in the far east on the pitance that they earn.
We all wanted cheaper goods and thus helped to put ourselves out of work.
Unions made employers pay apprentices higher wages , now they can't afford to take as many on as they did years ago.
Health and Safety has gone berserk. Small companies cannot keep up. what happened to common sense. Idiots are supposed to have accidents. That's
how nature raises the average IQ.
God help us if we do have another war. We don't have a good enough manufacturing infrastucture to build a war machine. Anyone read 'Build
your own Tank for £250'.
I'm too old for this...
Rant over............and relax 
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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Gav
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| posted on 23/6/06 at 10:08 PM |
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While engineering maybe a passion close to many of our hearts, markets change, what did we all do be for the industrial evolution? farming mostly id
bet, then i bet that the then famers were moaning that farming as a career was on the decline, now we are in the midst of the electronic revolution
and the engineers are saying engineering is on the decline.
This isnt anything todo with economy its to do with human technological advancement.
I personally wonder what the next human mass technological advancement will be and what type of skill set will be needed in that day and age.
Genetics?, space flight?, nano technology?
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cossey
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 06:41 AM |
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there wouldnt be a problem if it was just the lost of the heavy engineering and an increase in more high tech stuff, however we dont produce that
either and whereas when the outsourcing revolution started we only really outsourced the manufacturing stage and the design stage was still in Britain
now increasingly we just buy in a finished part/machine.
at the current rate though countries like China are expanding faster than we did but the problems have increased faster too and they are mostly just
ignoring them so in 10 years time they are going to be screwed with a crippled workforce due to the ammount of waste they are dumping and no ability
to grow enough food and i cant see people in europe and the usa digging into their pockets for charity appeals to food etc.
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peterriley2
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 09:31 AM |
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okay my point of view:
im 16 and im making my own car (hopefully will be my first if i get it done in time), and i know im not the only youngster on here- all im saying is
there are people my age who get themselves into mechanics etc, but yes i completely agree most of us dont....
im getting to the stage of deciding uni yes/no, and have strongly chosen no, as i feel people go as a 'dunno what to do next, i suppose ill just
go to uni'. ive always felt that nowdays for the majority of jobs uni is not needed, and as everybody goes it doesnt make you stand out at all.
i want to own my own business- be my own boss etc and will start next year. if and when i employ people i will choose life experience over uni
experience anyday..
so what im saying is, people choose uni because they cant be bothered to make a real decision on their life. it must just be a sign of the times- and
because people dont reallly want to study whatever their studying the nation doesnt get youths who are skilled.
an example- i work in a restaraunt, and 90% of people who work there have come straight from the local uni- why arent they going into real jobs????
ive been trying to persuade my mates for ages over this matter, two of them arent going to uni any more but a lot are because they dont want face the
decision at this early(ish) stage in their lives.
i think we need to change the whole of society/way young people think because this really is a problem, and as i see it people are throwing away their
lives because they dont want to make a choice.
Joel
If you dont respect yourself, dont expect respect from anyone else
Live your dreams, dont dream your life
Women only want you for one thing- everything!
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peterriley2
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 09:57 AM |
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young people are boring....
one thing i forgot- when i speak to teachers/ older people about my car their eyes light up- and i get stories about specials they built, how they
built their first car with a friend, etc etc. when i told all my friends about it they laughed, and pretty much dismissed it as i was building some
sort of go-kart. 'so your actually gonna drive it' they say, 'what on the road?'- people have stopped doing things that
involves risk. my philosophy is you only get one life, theres not enough of it as it is, do whatever makes you feel happiest and live it to the full.
if you make a bad decision f^@K it, youll be able to sort it out somewhere along the line....
Joel
If you dont respect yourself, dont expect respect from anyone else
Live your dreams, dont dream your life
Women only want you for one thing- everything!
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trogdor
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 10:36 AM |
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its the same with restoring a classic car too, everyone my age thinks its a waste of time and just want to have a brand new car. its strange that most
people judge a car by how new it is, ie the newer the better. also when i say i am changing the engine to an zetec etc they just think i'm mad.
its hard to find someone interested sometimes!
though i must say that i do know people who have gone to uni and made something out of it. my friend got headhunted by a big company and instead of
doing a masters is now a sales engineer with a brand new company car and a very good salary for someone my age! so it can be done, but i do agree that
most people go to uni because they don't know what to do with themselves. hell thats prob why i went, i am not sure what i am gonna do, but the
idea of having my own business etc is what i would like to do, that said i don't know what i want to do in the world of business!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 11:48 AM |
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RE new stuff, most people buy into that philsophy (?) these days. Ie if it's old it's knackered. Most of my mates refuse to buy older cars
for no appreciable reason whatso ever. They fail to look at things in an objective way. As I said before, I got the same response from people as
others, ie generally amusment/dismissal as a silly idea. People won't take risks anymore, pretty much regardless of the potential gains, ie
build a car for £1500 (or so) rather than buy one for £5-8K.
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 02:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by peterriley2
one thing i forgot- when i speak to teachers/ older people about my car their eyes light up- and i get stories about specials they built, how they
built their first car with a friend, etc etc. when i told all my friends about it they laughed, and pretty much dismissed it as i was building some
sort of go-kart. 'so your actually gonna drive it' they say, 'what on the road?'- people have stopped doing things that
involves risk. my philosophy is you only get one life, theres not enough of it as it is, do whatever makes you feel happiest and live it to the full.
if you make a bad decision f^@K it, youll be able to sort it out somewhere along the line....
Rock on yong man!
Wise words from one so young. there may be hope for the world yet.
As for the -ve attitude of your mates, don't let anyone steal your dream!
No one built a statue to a cynic!
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 02:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by peterriley2
one thing i forgot- when i speak to teachers/ older people about my car their eyes light up- and i get stories about specials they built, how they
built their first car with a friend, etc etc. when i told all my friends about it they laughed, and pretty much dismissed it as i was building some
sort of go-kart. 'so your actually gonna drive it' they say, 'what on the road?'- people have stopped doing things that
involves risk. my philosophy is you only get one life, theres not enough of it as it is, do whatever makes you feel happiest and live it to the full.
if you make a bad decision f^@K it, youll be able to sort it out somewhere along the line....
Rock on yong man!
Wise words from one so young, there may be hope for the world yet.
As for the -ve attitude of your mates, don't let anyone steal your dream!
No one built a statue to a cynic!
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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peterriley2
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 06:25 PM |
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my mates just buying a new car, hes looking at pug 306's- and no hes not a chav. ive been trying to persuade him to buy a triumph herald or
something similar, but he seems to have his heart set on something with no character what so ever, just because people see you as being
'stylish', or something. ive been trying to tell him not to be a lemming, as a first car its gotta be something you can be proud of, and
whats better than an old, very cool car? people are loosing the plot.....
Joel
If you dont respect yourself, dont expect respect from anyone else
Live your dreams, dont dream your life
Women only want you for one thing- everything!
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JoelP
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 06:53 PM |
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but in his favour, if he has no mechanical skills he probably doesnt want to risk ending up with a car that needs maintaining regularily.
That said, my little ax has done 20k with nearly no work whatsoever, and just passed its mot with nothing needing doing, not even emissions?! Its
literally had 4 tyres, new pads and discs, and 3 engine services. Only failures were a worn drive shaft and a broken thermostat housing.
However, concours 1993 is old enough for me! 
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peterriley2
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 07:10 PM |
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thats definately true, but he does want to learn about mechanics, and i would think it would be a great way to do so. i suppose were back to the same
question of taking risks and making the decisions....
(by the way, its the guy in my avatar)
[Edited on 24/6/06 by peterriley2]
Joel
If you dont respect yourself, dont expect respect from anyone else
Live your dreams, dont dream your life
Women only want you for one thing- everything!
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trogdor
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 11:30 PM |
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a triumph hearld is a really good first car! is a shame ur friend won't get one. as long as u get a good one they are easy to look after and run
and maintain, i would of got on eif one had come my way at the right time!
i am going to run an £100 saab 96 as a first car and daily driver! have already learnt so much from it, i am really glad i got it!
[Edited on 24/6/06 by trogdor]
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