MkIndy7
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 12:14 AM |
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Most definately with Caber on this one!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 08:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
You need to be able to read imperial verniers to be a 'proper' engineer!
Which type - decimal or fractional 
anyway I did get taught both at uni (only 4 years ago) - but then that was a lecturer who started as apprentice (in a quarry I think), then got the
degree, then a PHD - all round about the most knowledgeable engineer I've ever met (he designs robots and stuff)
Rolls-Royce jets might be drawn/ measured in imperial - but that wouldn't have anything to do with selling them to the Americans would it ?
btw - most electricity pylons in this country are measured in feet, inches and fractions (including the new ones) - but that's only because no
one has bothered to re-draw or re-design them since the 50's & 60's - not exactly cutting edge
BAe have gone back to doing apprenticeships - then if you do alright at the basics they put you on and HND - then degree and so on...
in the end they get a bunch of skilled mechanics and fitters,
some with HNC/ HND's + the practical skills,
some with all that and a degree,
and some of them chartered or with PHDs
and then even a few managers who could even do the jobs they are managing
so someone there realised that a degree on its own is useless - I wish my boss would - we've had 2 graduates in here recently, just sorting
fabrication drawing ordering material and so on (sort of draftsman/ production manager) nether of them could grasp it (even after 9 months  )
we've now got the 16 year old son of the head of that department - strait out of school and he's already doing much better !
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Donkeymatt
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 09:34 AM |
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LOL you mean this? ( relighting the flames of the old mechanical / civil divide) 
 
Rescued attachment DSC00574.JPG
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twybrow
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 09:59 AM |
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Someone with many years experience can become a 'qualified engineer' by means of the Chartered scheme cant they? I agree a degree on its
own does not make an engineer, but equally years of experience doesn't always equate to a true understanding! I think the title should be
protected (and engineering should be better paid and respected) but the term needs to be clearly defined first...
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 08:49 PM |
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A Doctor is a Doctor as soon as they've passed a certain set of exams regardless of experience, so why shouldnt an Engineer be an Engineer in
the same circumstances?
Being an engineer should be "first base" as it were, from that starting point there should (and are to an extent) additional levels of
Engineers to indicate experience / expertise as there are with doctors (GP, consultant etc), but I certainly agree there should be a defining set of
criteria that you need to achieve to allow the term "engineer" to be used in your job title at all, such as meeting the qualifying
criteria for the IMechE (for Mechanical Engineers) or equivalent maybe.
Chris
BEng Mechanical Engineering
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carnut
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 09:01 PM |
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Exactly, thats what the CEng qualification is.
Carnut MEng
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flak monkey
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 09:08 PM |
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You take a degree which is chartered by the IMechE or IET or whatever they are calling themselves now (changed last year I understand?!), similar to
what I am now completing.
Then you gain relevant work experience for at least 2 years and you can apply to become chartered, i.e. CEng
If you have an apprenticship, HND or whatever and have worked in engineering you can also become chartered in a way. You can apply for what is called
Incorporated Engineer status (IEng).
Theres plenty of info on the IMechE website if you are interested:
http://www.imeche.org.uk/membership/academic_requirements.asp
IMO you should only be able to call yourself an engineer if you have the correct level of education. People seem to be confused between an engineer
and a fitter/technician. Just because one has a degree and the other an apprenticeship doesnt make one cleverer than the other. Their skills/training
lie in different areas, we need both to be able to 'engineer' anything. I doubt there are many fitters/technicians who could carry out the
job of an engineer, and visa versa. However with the appropriate training no doubt one is as capable as the other.
Experience does count for everything, but you need the foundational knowledge to apply in practice in the first place. You then adapt and contiue to
learn from your experience.
If you are a graduate engineer looking for a job you will appreciate how difficult it is to find one which doesnt say 'minimum 3 years related
work experience'. I know some really useless 'engineers' however its not because they are stupid, its purely because they hae no
experience, this doesnt devoid them of the engineer tag though.
David  (Soon to be MEng Manufacturing Engineer)
PS I know if I were born 15 years earlier, I would be on an apprenticeship and not at uni! Thankfully I have the ability to get plenty of hands on
experience from my father who is apprentice trained
[Edited on 28/2/07 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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quinnj3
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 09:12 PM |
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hi lads i just thought i'd give my 2 pence worth as well. A lot of people think that university grads are skilled people especially engineers
etc but when these people are employed by a company the bosses all turn round and say how the hell did he/she get through that course they
wouldn't know the sharp end of a knife from the handle. The thing is the point of university courses are to show employers that he/she has an
ability to learn the type of work they will be required to do. When the person starts work they will have to learn everything from scratch.
I'm not saying university is bad i'm just saying that for things like mechanical engineering and civil engineering maybe workers in these
positions should go through an apprentiship along with their degree etc which will show them how to apply what they have learned in Uni in the real
world
I've probably gone off on a tangent here but i'm just in from a very long shift as a maintenance engineeer!
my aim is to build my own locost wether it takes me a week or 10 years to get started, i'm sure i will sometime
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 09:31 PM |
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I agree with what you're saying, some of the top academic students on my course (at Brunel) wouldnt know a spanner from screwdriver, but
"engineering" isnt solely the traditional idea of an old hand in the machine shop who's forgotten more than most know, then passing
on his knowledge to an apprentice. An engineer these days is more likely to be be sitting in front of a computer number crunching fluid dynmanics
calculations than making something on a CNC machine or actually making / building something
In some ways I think thats half the problem, when you say to the general public "picture in your head the stereotypical Doctor"
they'll think of someone in a white coat with a stethoscope round their neck, if you do the same with "engineer" they'll most
likely think of a car mechanic, the chap who fixed their washing machine last Tuesday, or the aforementioned old git beavering away on a lathe.
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gazza285
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| posted on 28/2/07 at 11:26 PM |
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Civil engineering? "Gonna dig me a hole"
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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