mistergrumpy
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 06:14 PM |
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I saw it on the Saturday fully uncovered. There was a sign saying it was based around the Phantom jet.
To say it were ugly would be an understatement.
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Steve Munster
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 06:18 PM |
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Oh dear, there seems to be a lot of jealous people out there, just because you didn't think of designing this vehicle before!!!!!!!lol
I personally couldn't give 'two hoots' what it looks like as its not my car, but one thing I do know is this, Peter, who's car
it is absolutly loves it and as for how fast it is? It goes like a rocket its got a 2.9 v6 from a mondeo.
He(Peter) has many ideas on the screens and interior etc. and if they work successfully then watchout cuz they could help push the kitcar industry
into the 21st century.
Saying all that I'm having a family built by Vindicator and i'm having to be very patient with them as the F4 is taking up a lot of their
time.
I have found that there are lots of people with opinions but very few with a grounded opinion. If you don't like it don't buy it! simple
as that. I personally don't like a certain company from Kingswinford' cars because they are too small for ME, but one thing I've
never done is slate them on these pages.
Well I've said my bit, we should all be in this industry as friends whether we've got a Vindicator, Robin Hood, Westfield, etc. etc. the
kitcar industry is too small for some of the back stabbing that goes on.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 06:33 PM |
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Jellous!! hehehe - glad you put the lol at the end there!! 
As you've seen, the general concensus is that the F4 really is ffffugly and ok, if your mate loves it then thats great and I hope he continues
to love it and enjoy it for years to come.
Saying that though, and judging by the reaction of the vast majority of "Kit Car People" attending the show who obviously thought the same
as many on the thread, using this car to promote the kit car industry to the general public would bring nothing but ridicule from 95%+ I feel. Thats
what my worry would be here!!
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Steve Munster
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 06:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
Jellous!! hehehe - glad you put the lol at the end there!!
As you've seen, the general concensus is that the F4 really is ffffugly and ok, if your mate loves it then thats great and I hope he continues
to love it and enjoy it for years to come.
Saying that though, and judging by the reaction of the vast majority of "Kit Car People" attending the show who obviously thought the same
as many on the thread, using this car to promote the kit car industry to the general public would bring nothing but ridicule from 95%+ I feel. Thats
what my worry would be here!!
Mate,
Take a step back and look at the kit car industry as a whole, isn't it for people who want to be different? When you pull into a petrol station
to fill up in a Toyota or VW does the guy next to you give you a second look? NO. When you pull up in a kit car do you get the same reaction?
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chris_smith
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 07:09 PM |
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i was at the show with my dad on saturday could not understand a word that was said in the build up speech,and when the covers came off we just stood
in silence, then turned to each other in awe and fell about laughing
to be fair i dare say alot of work has gone into the build but whom ever designs there cars really needs to change there thoughts as this really isnt
the first ugly car they have built
chris
[Edited on 16/9/08 by chris_smith]
The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows."
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chrisg
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 07:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Munster
Oh dear, there seems to be a lot of jealous people out there, just because you didn't think of designing this vehicle before!!!!!!!lol
I personally couldn't give 'two hoots' what it looks like as its not my car, but one thing I do know is this, Peter, who's car
it is absolutly loves it and as for how fast it is? It goes like a rocket its got a 2.9 v6 from a mondeo.
He(Peter) has many ideas on the screens and interior etc. and if they work successfully then watchout cuz they could help push the kitcar industry
into the 21st century.
Saying all that I'm having a family built by Vindicator and i'm having to be very patient with them as the F4 is taking up a lot of their
time.
I have found that there are lots of people with opinions but very few with a grounded opinion. If you don't like it don't buy it! simple
as that. I personally don't like a certain company from Kingswinford' cars because they are too small for ME, but one thing I've
never done is slate them on these pages.
Well I've said my bit, we should all be in this industry as friends whether we've got a Vindicator, Robin Hood, Westfield, etc. etc. the
kitcar industry is too small for some of the back stabbing that goes on.
Some interesting points, it's interesting that you see it as "back stabbing", I certainly don't have any axe to grind with
Vindicator, in fact I wish them well with it - it's more choice after all.
I don't like the styling and I won't be buying one, which is, as you say is my choice.
As for the grounding of the posters on here, some of them have been around kit cars for a long time, and you'll have to ask Andy Saunders about
who first had the idea about basing a car on the jet fighter concept(G-WHIZ).
In the end the market will decide, and from the reaction of most people it isn't going to be a big seller.
Cheers
Chris 
EDIT, appolgies, I got my car designers mixed up. It was Bill carter not Andy Saunders
G-WHIZ
[Edited on 16/9/08 by chrisg]
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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Steve Munster
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 08:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrisg
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Munster
Oh dear, there seems to be a lot of jealous people out there, just because you didn't think of designing this vehicle before!!!!!!!lol
I personally couldn't give 'two hoots' what it looks like as its not my car, but one thing I do know is this, Peter, who's car
it is absolutly loves it and as for how fast it is? It goes like a rocket its got a 2.9 v6 from a mondeo.
He(Peter) has many ideas on the screens and interior etc. and if they work successfully then watchout cuz they could help push the kitcar industry
into the 21st century.
Saying all that I'm having a family built by Vindicator and i'm having to be very patient with them as the F4 is taking up a lot of their
time.
I have found that there are lots of people with opinions but very few with a grounded opinion. If you don't like it don't buy it! simple
as that. I personally don't like a certain company from Kingswinford' cars because they are too small for ME, but one thing I've
never done is slate them on these pages.
Well I've said my bit, we should all be in this industry as friends whether we've got a Vindicator, Robin Hood, Westfield, etc. etc. the
kitcar industry is too small for some of the back stabbing that goes on.
Some interesting points, it's interesting that you see it as "back stabbing", I certainly don't have any axe to grind with
Vindicator, in fact I wish them well with it - it's more choice after all.
I don't like the styling and I won't be buying one, which is, as you say my choice.
As for the grounding of the posters on here, some of them have been around kit cars for a long time, and you'll have to ask Andy Saunders about
who first had the idea about basing a car on the jet fighter concept(G-WHIZ).
In the end the market will decide, and from the reaction of most people it isn't going to be a big seller.
Cheers
Chris
Hi Chris,
I will have to admit that I am a newbie and must say that it won't be a good or bad thing if the F4 sells, but I will say that its another
option for anyone looking to build a kit car. The design etc has been generalised from an F4 Phantom, Peters own design and he has had dealings all
along the build of the car.
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Vindi_andy
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 08:04 PM |
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I too am building a vindicator Sprint Family and that received a certain amount of ridicule when it was launched but for people like me who want to be
in a kitcar but have 2 kids and a wife with a will of iron "you can have a kitcar as long as it has 4 seats" this was to my mind the only
option as I didnt want an old fashioned roadster style or modern sportscar look.
Personally I dont like it but that said fair play to john for having the cahunas to put it out there and as I understand things the guy who it is
being built for is actually the designer and john was happy to build it for him.
Cost will be significant I will say no more and the figure john gave me would make it prohibitive for some even if they liked the styling. personally
if I had the money mentioned to spend on a kitcar I would buy a murtaya and have some change.
Just my 2 pen'orth
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Steve Munster
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 08:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Vindi_andy
I too am building a vindicator Sprint Family and that received a certain amount of ridicule when it was launched but for people like me who want to be
in a kitcar but have 2 kids and a wife with a will of iron "you can have a kitcar as long as it has 4 seats" this was to my mind the only
option as I didnt want an old fashioned roadster style or modern sportscar look.
Personally I dont like it but that said fair play to john for having the cahunas to put it out there and as I understand things the guy who it is
being built for is actually the designer and john was happy to build it for him.
Cost will be significant I will say no more and the figure john gave me would make it prohibitive for some even if they liked the styling. personally
if I had the money mentioned to spend on a kitcar I would buy a murtaya and have some change.
Just my 2 pen'orth
Hi Andy,
Isn't that why this industry is alive? You can spend a few hundred and build a kit car or spend a few thousand and get a kit car. Me personaly
I'd have one of each but space,money,wife etc. prohibit me doing that, so we are having 1 kit car and will use it as much as possible to justify
the cost laid down to get it.
Oh by the way, still looking at seats f.....g things.
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 08:37 PM |
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There are a fair few people who try to make the move from kit car buyer/builder to kit car supplier in an attempt to supply their dream car to the
market. No one else shares their passion for their particular dream car and the whole thing fails. I'm not knocking it as someone obviously
likes it but I do believe that it would only appeal to a very limited sector of the overall market. I guess that the idea is that if they can sell a
few kits then they will recover some of the costs incurred in the production of the original.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 08:41 PM |
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I can only speak as someone who has no particular views about Vindicator cars - that new one is odd, I wouldn't ever consider building one - but
it may 'improve' when a real one is built with proper windows etc. This would lighten up the whole shape and maybe make it acceptable.
For me, the jury is out...
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mr henderson
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 08:51 PM |
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I hate having a go at anyone who has obviously put a lot of time and effort into something, but I can only think, in this case, that the designer just
doesn;t see this car the way the rest of the world does.
To combine a shape like that, with that front suspension and the cycle wings is just, just, I don't know, I'm not sure if there is a word
in English for it.
If they had fared the front wheels into the body, somehow, then maybe they could have used it in a Space 1999 revival.
John
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vindicator
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 10:27 PM |
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Well I have waited to see what most people have said about the car. I do not work for Vindicator but do own one (yes ok I was the one in the orange
sweater!!!!) as this matches the colour of my car.
As I see it, Peter had a dream when he was young and as time past he toured the kit car manufactures to see who would like the challange to build his
car. Step forward only one company others said 'no way'.
Who said that this was going to be a new model for Vindicator for the masses. It is one persons dream and Vindicator is nearly there in completing it
for Peter. Yes there are still some challenges to over come, but don't knock it just yet!!.
Some people like it some don't, some like day glow sweaters some don't, I don't get my hand stamped when walking out of a kit car
show with the view of walking back in as everyone knows the jumper.
I like my Sprint and get a BIG grin when driving down the motorway, every one looks. I am sure that when Peter gets his dream on the road he will also
have a BIG GRIN....
So if you have a dream car or design in mind, speak to Vindicator as the rest of the kit car manufactures don't won't to live dangerously.
Now where is my Orange sweater.....by the way SWMBO has one also.......and is a black belt in Judo, her twin sister is a 2nd dan....so I don't
argue and am now ducking.....
[Edited on 16-9-2008 by vindicator]
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 10:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Munster
Mate,
Take a step back and look at the kit car industry as a whole, isn't it for people who want to be different? When you pull into a petrol station
to fill up in a Toyota or VW does the guy next to you give you a second look? NO. When you pull up in a kit car do you get the same reaction?
Yes it is - but when the crowd that want to be different are all in hysterics - doesnt that say something?? This car i really do hope, stays a one
off!! I have absolutely nothing against anyone wanting to be different at all - what i said was i really hope that car doesnt become a representation
of the kit industry as a whole!!
Did someone mention martial arts?? I have black belts in two (Euro junior champs in karate) - so i do hope they weren't threats!!
ChrisG puts some interesting points over. None of us have anything against Vindicator - and i really dont see where the backstabbing is in voicing an
opinion. After all this forum is all about opinion - and even if we dont always agree i think we all respect each other on the whole!! If we hate it
we wont buy it - simple as that!! The danger comes (to me) from putting that over as a representation of the kit car industry as a whole!!) Beauford
(whilst also not my cup of tea) produce cars used for weddings - and have done the kit industry a lot of good!! Same with CateringVan and Westfield -
they are names that are well known and associated with kits!!
[Edited on 16/9/08 by Paul TigerB6]
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Steve Munster
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 10:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Munster
Mate,
Take a step back and look at the kit car industry as a whole, isn't it for people who want to be different? When you pull into a petrol station
to fill up in a Toyota or VW does the guy next to you give you a second look? NO. When you pull up in a kit car do you get the same reaction?
Yes it is - but when the crowd that want to be different are all in hysterics - doesnt that say something?? This car i really do hope, stays a one
off!!
Did someone mention martial arts?? I have black belts in two - so i do hope they weren't threats!!
Sorry mate but what realy gets me in hysterics is the 18yr old at the traffic lights in Merry Hill last night in a cream fiesta 1Ltr with no back
seats but a great monsterous roll cage - the whole car, inc. wife and 2 daughters were laughing at some wanna be racer in his ikle car - step forward
F4 and show the boy what to do!!!!
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 11:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve MunsterSorry mate but what realy gets me in hysterics is the 18yr old at the traffic lights in Merry Hill
last night in a cream fiesta 1Ltr with no back seats but a great monsterous roll cage - the whole car, inc. wife and 2 daughters were laughing at some
wanna be racer in his ikle car - step forward F4 and show the boy what to do!!!!
How did the F4 manage that last night?? I saw it Sunday and it had fibreglass windscreen, no front lights, totally un-SVAable and i must have missed
the numberplates!!
I've been taking the pi$$ out of so called fast cars for the last 8 years in a standard zetec Tiger 6. Your average 1L Fiesta is hardly a big
scalp for my tintop - never mind a kit car - so whats your point???? Going out with my local Impreza club (when i had a WRX) and obliterating them
with my Zetec Tiger was much more satisfying but still no surprise!!! Most kit cars no matter what the engine will obliterate the average tintop in a
straight line and nigh on guaranteed to do so in the bends
[Edited on 16/9/08 by Paul TigerB6]
[Edited on 16/9/08 by Paul TigerB6]
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Steve Munster
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 11:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by Steve MunsterSorry mate but what realy gets me in hysterics is the 18yr old at the traffic lights in Merry Hill
last night in a cream fiesta 1Ltr with no back seats but a great monsterous roll cage - the whole car, inc. wife and 2 daughters were laughing at some
wanna be racer in his ikle car - step forward F4 and show the boy what to do!!!!
How did the F4 manage that last night?? I saw it Sunday and it had fibreglass windscreen!!
I've been taking the pi$$ out of so called fast cars for the last 8 years in a standard zetec Tiger 6. Your average 1L Fiesta is hardly a big
scalp - so whats your point???? Going out with my local Impreza club (when i had a WRX) and obliterating them with my Zetec Tiger was much more
satisfying but still no surprise!!! Most kit cars no matter what the engine will obliterate the average tintop in a straight line and nigh on
guaranteed to do so in the bends
[Edited on 16/9/08 by Paul TigerB6]
Sorry mate but my point is that the F4 what ever people think about looks etc. is a very fast car, I know I've been in it - obviously before it
had a body!!!!!!!
I remember my old 'g' reg Volvo 740 grandad mobile, the amount of xr2's and xr3's I've left behind at traffic lights is
in the hundreds.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 16/9/08 at 11:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Munster
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by Steve MunsterSorry mate but what realy gets me in hysterics is the 18yr old at the traffic lights in Merry Hill
last night in a cream fiesta 1Ltr with no back seats but a great monsterous roll cage - the whole car, inc. wife and 2 daughters were laughing at some
wanna be racer in his ikle car - step forward F4 and show the boy what to do!!!!
How did the F4 manage that last night?? I saw it Sunday and it had fibreglass windscreen!!
I've been taking the pi$$ out of so called fast cars for the last 8 years in a standard zetec Tiger 6. Your average 1L Fiesta is hardly a big
scalp - so whats your point???? Going out with my local Impreza club (when i had a WRX) and obliterating them with my Zetec Tiger was much more
satisfying but still no surprise!!! Most kit cars no matter what the engine will obliterate the average tintop in a straight line and nigh on
guaranteed to do so in the bends
[Edited on 16/9/08 by Paul TigerB6]
Sorry mate but my point is that the F4 what ever people think about looks etc. is a very fast car, I know I've been in it - obviously before it
had a body!!!!!!!
I remember my old 'g' reg Volvo 740 grandad mobile, the amount of xr2's and xr3's I've left behind at traffic lights is
in the hundreds.
Sorry - but what you might think of as fast might not be so fast to someone else!! What do you think the 0-60mph is?? I've driven RGB spec race
cars and dont think they are so quick having been in a 600bhp/ton Tiger Z100WR doing 60 in well under 3 secs!! If it cant break 5s then to me its
pretty slow. It it doesnt do sub 4s then nothing special - its all comparative. The majority on here will be used to sub 6's which is soooo fast
to the general public!!
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mr henderson
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| posted on 17/9/08 at 07:47 AM |
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The windscreen has been mentioned a couple of times. If they solve that problem, which I personally think means they are going to have to get
something specially made in laminated glass, the next problem will be the windscreen wiper. And that is going to be an even bigger problem.
I can't understand why they exhibited it at a kit car show, as it's never going to be any more than a conversation piece. As such it is a
complete success, as this 5 page (so far) thread shows.
We've all met people who simply don't see things (usually themselves) the way other people do. I remember an old boss of mine who was in
to tanning. Perfectly intelligent and normal person in every other way, but she had taken the tanning thing to ridiculous levels and couldn't
see that there was anything wrong with it.
It's basically the same thing with this 'car'. Whoever is responsible for it is so obsessed by it that they have (I hate using
cliches, but this one is especially apt) 'lost the plot'
John
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 17/9/08 at 09:00 AM |
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Ok, I'm officially confused as to what the purpose/intent of this car is. There has been some talk of the whole thing being to fulfil one
man's dream and Vindicator stepping up to the plate to do this for him. There has also been a mention of this being a pre-production prototype
(as displayed on the stand IIRC) and talk on here of the projected costs being a little too rich for most of us.
Is this a one off to allow one individual to live his dream or is it something that will go into production with a view to selling to the great
unwashed?
Putting all the emotional issues to one side, in strictly commercial terms, trying to market something that appeals to a handful of people (some of
which, I feel, are defending this on this basis that it is a venture by Vindicator to which they have an element of loyalty) and is very expensive is
not an ideal business model. Can I just ask whether the two people defending the F4 so far will be placing an order?
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vindicator
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| posted on 17/9/08 at 11:05 AM |
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quote:
Ok, I'm officially confused as to what the purpose/intent of this car is. There has been some talk of the whole thing being to fulfil one
man's dream and Vindicator stepping up to the plate to do this for him. There has also been a mention of this being a pre-production prototype
(as displayed on the stand IIRC) and talk on here of the projected costs being a little too rich for most of us.
Ok, Richard you are officially not confused. You are right on several points. Yes one mans dream to get the dream built (not quite done that yet, but
nearly), to have it 'paraded' yes, peter's dream. Yes a pre production as Vindicator are marketing it.....ermmmm. If I was part of
Vindicator I would do the same, if a few sales came from it (once it is finished!) then great. But if Vindicator don't get another sale then
like any other manufacture, the F4 will quickly fade away. Main car manufacturers do this all the time.
Give it time to see the final outcome, then again after all that has been written here, you may not see it again at a show.....
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vindicator
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| posted on 17/9/08 at 11:27 AM |
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quote:
Can I just ask whether the two people defending the F4 so far will be placing an order?
Sorry Richard missed this on on the last post....which two defending the F4 as there has been 3 vindicator owner's that have replied.....
To put MHO forward, I love my Sprint, something a bit different than your common RH, W, C, T etc. Would I buy a F4, no as in the F4 the passenger sits
behind the driver (really good if you have a nagging wife, but then again she would not have let you buy a kit car in the first place!!!) and I had
enough of that when I was young and my brother used to take me to school in his Messersmit......never again....
 
messersmit
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RoadkillUK
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| posted on 17/9/08 at 11:31 AM |
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Here we go. If you're gonna make a plane like car 
Link Here
[Edited on 17/9/08 by RoadkillUK]
Roadkill - Lee
www.bradford7.co.uk
Latest Picture (14 Sept 2014)
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Vindi_andy
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| posted on 17/9/08 at 11:32 AM |
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I am defending Vindicator not necessarily the car as I said Its not to my taste so no I wont be placing an order.
To respond to your comment about whther its is pre-production prototype or specific to one mans dreams, knowing john the way I do its both. It
originally started as one mans dream and obviously there is quite a bit of cost involved taking it to production so i think john wants to sell a few
at the same time.
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
Ok, I'm officially confused as to what the purpose/intent of this car is. There has been some talk of the whole thing being to fulfil one
man's dream and Vindicator stepping up to the plate to do this for him. There has also been a mention of this being a pre-production prototype
(as displayed on the stand IIRC) and talk on here of the projected costs being a little too rich for most of us.
Is this a one off to allow one individual to live his dream or is it something that will go into production with a view to selling to the great
unwashed?
Putting all the emotional issues to one side, in strictly commercial terms, trying to market something that appeals to a handful of people (some of
which, I feel, are defending this on this basis that it is a venture by Vindicator to which they have an element of loyalty) and is very expensive is
not an ideal business model. Can I just ask whether the two people defending the F4 so far will be placing an order?
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 17/9/08 at 01:20 PM |
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Sorry, I can't remember which two out of the three I was referring to and I don't want to go trawling back through the ramblings.
I think I understand the situation now and I completely understand the "one man's meat is another man's poison" side of
things.
I hear what you are saying about recovering some of the costs of the one-off dream by trying to sell a few more but surely there is an additional cost
of production tooling, jigs etc that would then also have to be recovered which has got to be a gamble with something that, as we have seen here,
probably has a very limited market in the first place.
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