Guinness
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 06:37 AM |
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Are we living in a police state yet?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7989027.stm
So a middle aged newspaper seller, walking home with his hands in his pockets, with nothing to do with the protests, is shoved to the ground by a
policeman.
Minutes later he dies of a heart attack.
Whilst I accept that the police have a difficult job to do, there is no need for that.
Protect and serve? or Bully and intimidate?
Mike
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 06:48 AM |
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From personal experience, the wrong types are attracted to joining the police
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nib1980
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:00 AM |
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volunteer to go to your local police training excercise, and after experiencing having bricks, molotov cocktails, bottles of Urine, Excrement, verbal
and physical abuse, threats to your family, and friends.
THEN decide which of the people in front of you, if you let them get behind you, is not gonna come up and attack you from behind.
You can't, you have to control a crowd INfront of YOU and you have to make them compliant.
By no means am i saying it was well handled, but similarly there was no intention to kill.
yes there are some bad elements in any job. But the situation there is is extremely difficult, that topped with the fact we haven't seen the
full story yet. then judgements can be made.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:07 AM |
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Are we living in a police state yet?
No, we are not.
Hope that helps
John
[Edited on 8/4/09 by mr henderson]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:09 AM |
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There is no justification for what happened on the video, one man against about 10 cops and police dogs does not make it a crowd control issue
[Edited on 8/4/09 by Mr Whippy]
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r1_pete
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:10 AM |
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The reporting is currently sensationalising to sell papers and attract viewers, the facts will out in time, tragic I agree, but as has been said was
there any intent?
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mr henderson
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
There is no justification for what happened on the video, one man against about 10 cops and police dogs does not make at a crowd control issue
Agreed, but there is a huge difference between one policeman making a bad mistake (for whatever reason) and a police state.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
There is no justification for what happened on the video, one man against about 10 cops and police dogs does not make at a crowd control issue
Agreed, but there is a huge difference between one policeman making a bad mistake (for whatever reason) and a police state.
very true
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Guinness
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:27 AM |
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OK. I admit that my post was unfair. Perhaps not a police state, but more like one lad got out of order. We have no way of knowing what happened in
the moments before that incident.
But, are we, the public, allowed to expect a higher standard of behaviour from the police than the rioters?
Mike
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:38 AM |
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looked like a police hoodie to me 
[Edited on 8/4/09 by Mr Whippy]
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JAG
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:38 AM |
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quote:
expect a higher standard of behaviour from the police than the rioters
In my opinion the Police are only there to protect the public and themselves from violent protestors. They have no duty to contain or to limit
movement of a legal protest.
This copper should be found and taken off these kind of duties - he obviously can't handle the stress involved.
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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02GF74
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:45 AM |
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there are bad eggs everywhere, whetehr wearing uniform or not.
whether the push contributed in any way to causing the heart attack is too early to say.
and to say we are in a police state because of one incident, that is jumped on by the media, is like saying
all 11 yr olds are murderers
Newspaper would not sell if PC Jones stopped the traffic so granny Smith could cross the B4178 on the way to ASDA was the headline.
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:55 AM |
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This guy (at least) didn't get 7 slugs through his head, but it appears the consequencies of the police interaction may have been similar.
Don't know if the thought police are outside right now, or if one of Stallin's employees is reading this email, or tracking my websites,
but I'm often in need of 're-education'.
I hear helicopters, what colour ball have I produced, they're here now, must go....
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 07:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
PC Jones stopped the traffic so granny Smith could cross the B4178 on the way to ASDA was the headline.
yeah certainly rather far fetched, thats more likely to be in the sunday sport next to Hitler living on the moon
[Edited on 8/4/09 by Mr Whippy]
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hellbent345
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 08:16 AM |
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that looked proper unnessesary didnt it,
To the police he did kinda look like he was shuffling along slowly to try and let them get by or to wee them off, to them that might have seemed
rather threatening...? and also they were under a lot of pressure that day but still thats no excuse for that savage push...
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sickbag
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 08:18 AM |
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I think if I'd seen a rather large protest in the street on my way home, then I would have gone another way, and avoided it completely.
I'm not defending the police in the slightest, but he should have chosen another route.
I base the above on comments made in this post, like most, I didn't see the actual event.
Finally back on the job!
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 08:26 AM |
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Maybe not quite yet but the population is sleepwalking straight into it and few seem to care....
The UK is Officially the second worst human rights offender in the world! second only to China!
Now thats a proud boast!!
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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carpmart
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 08:30 AM |
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There is usually a lot hidden in these media sensationalist headline stories.
The police officer concerned has little justification on the face of it. However, this was towards the end of a very stressful day, which is no
excuse on its own but it is fact!
If I had 10 coppers and six angry dogs up my jacksy I would be making more efforts to get out of the way than he appeared to be doing.
So, was this chap an innocent bystander or a pain in the ass deliberately being obstructive? I know where my money is! Is the copper justified in
his actions? I think on balance no, but hey, what do any of us know about what led up to this?
For context, I'm ambivalent towards the job the police do but I like to look at both perspectives.
I see my point is similar to the recent posts above but I'm just slow at typing! 
[Edited on 8/4/09 by carpmart]
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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smart51
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 08:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
The UK is Officially the second worst human rights offender in the world! second only to China!
Can you post a link to something official to support this claim? I'm sure it would make interesting reading.
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02GF74
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 08:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Don't know if the thought police are outside right now, or if one of Stallin's employees is reading this email, or tracking my websites,
but I'm often in need of 're-education'.
You are being watched!! 
VVVVV linky
Details of every
email sent and website visited by people in Britain are to be stored for use by the state from tomorrow.
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Agriv8
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 08:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sickbag
I think if I'd seen a rather large protest in the street on my way home, then I would have gone another way, and avoided it completely.
I'm not defending the police in the slightest, but he should have chosen another route.
I base the above on comments made in this post, like most, I didn't see the actual event.
Assume most people in that area knew what was going on and kept away or got sweped in. The Police will have been told what to do suspect 'round
up and contain' I suspect the protesters would respond to quitly being asked to stand in a group and not cause a newsance.
But being pushed to the ground 'Without warning' If thats the case well there is going to be trouble
regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Benzine
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 08:47 AM |
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Interesting vid section about police and how their role has changed from the 11:30 mark:
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=john+harris&hl=en&emb=0#
I don't think I could be a policeman in terms of crowd control as I don't think I could separate my own opinions from those of the
protesters (i.e. I'd probably agree with the protesters 9 times out of 10)
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hughpinder
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 09:05 AM |
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Pretty much the same view as carpmart. If you watch the video in the link, it seems strange that there were so many guys with cameras
photographing/videoing this guy. It also seems that one of the officiers with a dog gives him a single handed push (slightly off screen at the time),
just before the one that pushes him over.
I do think that officer was completely out of line. In the video it does seem that he is deliberately getting in the way of the police - I have
almost walked into a similar situation once, and there is absolutely no way you could not realise the police were there and what they were doing. I
just turned round into the side street, waited 1 minute for them to pass.
hugh
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BenB
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 09:26 AM |
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Hang on a minute here? Are you really suggesting that getting in the way of a policeman gives them the right to push you over? Unless there's a
dispersion order in place that bloke had every right to be there. The police could walk round him you know!
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hughpinder
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| posted on 8/4/09 at 09:40 AM |
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As I said, I agree that it was completely out of order to push the guy over.
Hugh
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