James
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 11:34 AM |
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Who needs to buy The Book!!!
Free hydrogen car plans. Maybe...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8103106.stm
Cheers,
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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tegwin
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 11:40 AM |
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As soon as there are efficient hydrogeon fuel cells and a decent source of the fuel... I will be building an electric car....
But until then....
LOL!
Wonder how much healf and sfaty there is involved... I guess hydrogeon would make a big bang!
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Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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bilbo
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 11:55 AM |
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A quick google shows you can but fuel cells off the shelf already:
linky
Serious money for only 3kw, but given time and demand, the price will drop and power will rise to a level where it could be feasible for us home
builders to produce our own fuel cell cars.
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Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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tegwin
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 11:58 AM |
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HOW MUCH!!!
Seriously.. they cant be that complicated!!
Anyone have any plans etc 
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Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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bilbo
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 12:03 PM |
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I don't think they are that complicated at all. If you look at the rest of the site, it looks like you can buy all the parts.
The current prices reflect the R&D effort and small numbers built.
Once mass production kicks in........
[Edited on 17/6/09 by bilbo]
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Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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tegwin
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 12:11 PM |
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I can see it now.. popping into my local scrappy any buying a complete fuel cell 
How dangerous is the technology though compared to a piston engine?
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Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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blakep82
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 12:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
Wonder how much healf and sfaty there is involved... I guess hydrogeon would make a big bang!
remember high school chemistry? burning hydrogen in a test tube and that awesome squeak it made? lol
imagine what the hindenburg must have sounded like! 
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Jasongray5
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 12:39 PM |
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quote:
remember high school chemistry? burning hydrogen in a test tube and that awesome squeak it made? lol
At A-level, we were trusted with a bottle of pure hydrogen and another of pure oxygen, we mixed about 1 part oxygen and 2 parts hydrogen gas in a
balloon, then with a lit splint (on the end of a metre stick) we ignited the mixture under a huge extractor fan. HUGE bang, lots of dust, lab
technician in tears of laughter, 4 of us looked extremely sheepish. Head of science never found out otherwise we would have been for the high jump.
ahhhh, those were the days
How hard can it be?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33261515@N03/sets/72157611049241239/
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 12:46 PM |
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my crazy stereotypical grammar boys school headmaster used to do that all the time.
He even demonstrated the thermite reaction!
On my first day of alevels he appeared with an unmarked bottle of liquid and asked us to perform a range of experiments before announcing it was
benzene. I commented that I wasn't sure we were allowed to work with it directly in schools and he proceded to wash his hands with it!
Craig
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Jasongray5
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 12:50 PM |
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LOL!! benzine!!
And yes, we got a demosntration of the thermic reaction. 2kg of molten iron on the grass outside the class room!!
How hard can it be?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33261515@N03/sets/72157611049241239/
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bilbo
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 01:01 PM |
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So is it possible to convert a standard petrol engine to run on Hydrogen?
I'm guessing it would be a similar converting to LPG? Or is it much more complicated and you end up rusting the engine shut?
I know it's not the most efficient way of doing things, but I'm just planning ahead for when all the petrol pumps start being replaced
with hydrogen.
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Build Diary: http://bills-locost.blogspot.com/
Web Site: http://locost.atspace.com
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 01:07 PM |
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no, it doesnt work like that at all 
also... hydrogen wont rust your engine.
Craig
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 01:15 PM |
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No, but the extremely hot water vapour produced will.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 01:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
No, but the extremely hot water vapour produced will.
extremely hot water vapour doesnt cause rust. If anything it would clean the bore!
Youd also have to completely redesign the combustion engine from the ground up even to get to that stage!
Craig
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hellbent345
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 05:07 PM |
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trouble inevitably comes when one questions where the hydrogen comes from initially - most hydrogen is currently produced by splitting hydrocarbon
fuels (ie petrol diesel etc) which are finite anyway. When these run out (although not for a while i dont think) the next way of producing it would
be from electricity, but where does that come from?
Also hydrocarbons will become more expensive as they become harder to find, so that will push up to cost of hydrogen too...
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hellbent345
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 05:12 PM |
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essentially;
CH4 + H2O -> CO + 3 H2
so the steam reforming of the methane produces carbon monoxide as well! partly dealt with by the next process;
CO + H2O -> CO2 + H2
but that then produces CO2 lol
This is how we get bulk hydrogen atm
[Edited on 17/6/09 by hellbent345]
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JoelP
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| posted on 17/6/09 at 05:30 PM |
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they only start with methane as its an easier reaction than hydrolysis. If we do achieve energy sustainability from either sun source or nuclear
source processes, then hydrolysis is the natural sustainable choice for hydrogen production.
A fuel cell is a very different concept to a petrol engine. With existing IC engines you take an existing energy source (ie HCs) and produce energy on
demand. The problem facing humanity is that we need to achieve energy sustainability. The idea of a hydrogen fuel cell isnt to produce energy, ie by
consuming a high energy fuel (ie methane in your example - this is essentially the same concept as a petrol engine), but as a means of STORING energy
in a VERY compact fashion (compared to batteries etc) and liberating it in a gentle and clean manner.
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