Lightning
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 posted on 18/6/04 at 05:44 PM |
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Blade engine help please!
SVA today , failed,(see SVA section)
The engine is running very lean, too lean to test O2 at 19%
This may be partially due to the air box that I have made. It uses the K & N filter that I had with the BIke air box., but what I haven't
taken into consideration is that the air flow was restricted on the old box as it has the 2 tubes as intakes from the box whilst my box finishes at
the filter.
The engine is supposed to be dynojetted
What is the best way to proceed?
I presumme this means new jets?
Also
On the way home...fast blast....the battery was red hot.
Do I suppose this is over charging???
Replaced the rectifier previously with a finned type.
Checked the voltage of charging when revving...20v however I suspect the multimeter is inaccurate as the battery itself is reading 14.5v
disconnected....any thoughts???????????
Help
Steve
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spunky
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 posted on 18/6/04 at 06:05 PM |
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O2 at 19%
Thats doing a bit more than running lean.
You could live of your exhaust fumes...
oxygen content of fresh air is less than 21%.
Either sucking loads of air into your exhaust,
Probe wasn't far enough up.
or, Testers analyser is malfunctioning.
I wouldn't have thought a modified airbox would make that sort of difference, Many of the BEC's run with simple sock filters.
All IMHO
Charging should be around 14v. Suspect fault with the voltage regulator/rectifier.
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 07:47 PM |
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Youll probably need to up the main jets at a guess from standard 122s to 126-130s (can get them from TTS amongst others). You dont want to thrash it
too much if it is running lean although it cant be too bad otherwise it wouldnt rev out at all (assuming it does).
Regarding the battery, it certainly doesnt sound right being red hot so Id get the Haynes manual out to diagnose before you start frying things, but
it does sound like a rectifier issue TBH.
Chris
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spunky
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 07:55 PM |
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Just a thought Chris, at fast idle, say 2800rpm, will it be onto the main jets.
Not my area of expertise so forgive me if i'm talking shite, but the emissions test is done at such low revs wouldn't it still be running
on pilot jets.
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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Lightning
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 08:18 PM |
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The tester tried that . We took it up to 3000 revs tosee if it made a difference off of main jets. It didn't.
Steve
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 08:28 PM |
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You're probably right actually, I didnt realise what revs it was done at and Ill be the first to admit that carb jetting aint exactly my strong
point cos Ive never had to fix / fiddle with mine! 
I would still think that the mains might need changing over standard if the Dynojet kit hasnt already done that.
Chris
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Hellfire
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 08:42 PM |
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Our's is dynojetted - with standard airbox, passed no problem. I've read on Yahoo! posts that the airbox does affect the mixtures a lot on
a 'blade. Unless I read it wrong (which is not rare). Can't you put the original airbox back on for SVA then pratt about later?
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Lightning
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 09:26 PM |
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It don't fit. I chopped ii up and used the adapter thingy bit to fit the carbs. Not as much room as the MK.
BTW I Overheard that there is a MK for retest there next week....Anyones????
Steve
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alister667
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:03 PM |
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It's kind of an odd story but here's my blade emissions experiences. When my car originally went up for test I had the main jets up to
132, the pilot air hole blocked and air socks on the trumpets. She was running like a train - pefect. It failed - Lambda too high. I assumed the
air filter thing wasn't helping so I got an original air box and set it up as it would have been in the Honda factory. I spent a day or two at
a local garage screwing around with the air inlets and pilot screws to no avail. She was by this stage far worse (HC and Lambda) than when she first
failed. As a last resort I stuck the air socks back on, put the 132 jets in again and re-blocked the pilot air jets.
Again she was failing but then for no apparent reason she started to pass! I was by this stage using snoopys aquarium valve method. I *think* she
started to pass becasue she built up a good deal of heat in the engine (I'm only guessing here!) and maybe cleared some carbon off the plugs or
something.
The only thing I did differently the second time is to check the jets themselves. On 96-99 blades the jets fitted to cylinders 2&3 are different
to those fitted to 1&4. 2&3 have a punch mark at the end of the jet size marking. I read that in the haynes, although I looked closely at
the jets and couldn't spot any difference - except the punch mark!
Remember the test at SVA is carried out (primarily) at 2500-3000 rpms and it's HC, Lambda and CO they're interested in.
I am mystified by the whole thing I just hope she decides to pass on the next SVA attempt.
All the best
Ali
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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Lightning
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:12 PM |
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Cheers Al
My Blade is an old girl as it was one of the first being 1992 and therefore the lambda doesn't matter as I dont need a cat.
Had to prove the age though. Faxed Honda UK who emailed honda Japan and received letter back from Honda UK. £30 worth. This is because it was an
import and the engine no. was outside the range of UK bikes.
Steve
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Lightning
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 09:30 AM |
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Ok, looked at the carbs today and they look fairly simple, a bit like the old strombergs on cars.
What I would like to know is exactly what does the dynojet kit do and look like. I was told that it had been fitted. What am I looking for?
The main jets would appear to be easily removed are the sizes marked on them?
Steve
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alister667
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 10:13 AM |
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I've never dealt with a dynojet kit personally, but I've been told that it is basically a drill bit that you use to enlarge your main jets
with.
As I said that's what I've been told - I haven't actually used one myself.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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alister667
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 10:14 AM |
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Yes the main jets have the sizes stamped on them, but bear in mind if they have been drilled out they may not be correct.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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alister667
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 10:20 AM |
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If you wanted to return it to normal go to your local bike shop and get 4 x 116 jets (I *think* 116 jets were originally fitted to older blades - can
someone else confirm this?) they're about 4 quid each, and get an original airbox as snoopy suggests.
Also check none of the other air pilot holes have been blocked off (look for sikaflex near the jets!) although if she's running lean it sounds
like that mod hasn't been done.
Sorry for all the seperate replies, but I keep thinking of new stuff everytime I post
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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spunky
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 11:49 AM |
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A dynojet kit will usually consist of (not always)
replacement main jets
Replacement needles, with 5 position grooves in the top and C clips
Weaker springs for the carb slides
occasionally a drill bit (I've never fitted one that had a drill bit)
Check to see if any sleeve is fitted to restrict the slide opening, this would have been removed if kit is fitted.
Also heard of the actual slide being drilled though never really understood the thinking behind it...!
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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Lightning
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 03:54 PM |
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Sorry Spunky I not too sure about what you mean by the sleeve.
Steve
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Lightning
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 04:19 PM |
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Just took out one of the needles and indeed it does have many grooves with a C clip that would determine its position.
Also I noted that I had accidently sqashed the breather hose when putting on the air box.
What difference would you suppose that would have made????
Steve
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spunky
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 12:14 AM |
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Sorry Steve should have been more descriptive.
On some bikes (again, not all) there is a 'sleeve' to stop carb slide opening fully and allowing full bore air flow. when the dyno kit is
fitted the main jets and needles used work in conjuction with full carb slide opening. Thus, more air and more juice.
If the needles have grooves then I'm pretty sure they are from a Dynojet kit.
I have know idea aout jet sizes, but if you contacted Micron they would be able to help you.
John
Ok forget Micron, their webshite is dreadfull.
This one would help you though.
http://www.dynojet.co.uk/jetkits/index.html
[Edited on 20/6/04 by spunky]
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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Lightning
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 11:12 AM |
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Phone dynojet and a local rolling road tuning place....both couldnt beleive the high figure.
I tightened all the joints between the carbs and the head and took it to the local MOT station.
Bugger me it passed...well within the limits.
So I will get the other bits sorted and take it back to the SVA station.
The rectifier was giving the battery 18v.. not good.
As a temporary measure cut one of the wires (yellow)to the rectifier and it now cahrges at 14.5v much better but still need another rectifier.
Steve
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timcrasher
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 06:17 PM |
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I personally think you need to be carefull. I wouldn't drive it until you get a new rectifier. You will just burn the altenator windings out,
especially as you have cut one of the yellow wires. Also you may have damaged the battery, ( look for signs of the casing bulging/ run you finger over
the side and feel for lumps. And I mean the BATTERY, not your privates !).
This is only my oppinion, but as a bike technician I see this on Honda's all the time.
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Lightning
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 06:41 PM |
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I agree and have ordered a new rectifier.
Not sure whether the battery is ok. I'll see if holds any charge.
Steve
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scotlad
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 08:06 PM |
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may well be fried..... bet your headlights were bright though!
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