bi22le
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| posted on 28/10/11 at 12:58 PM |
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Any Product developers out there. In depth advice needed
Hi,
This one is for the experienced and knowledgable!!
As you may or may not know I have recently had the lucky break of managing my own design project at work. I am in deep water here and would like some
advice.
So, I am running through a feasibility study of the product at the moment and am coming down the projected costing. I can do labour, manufacture
(assembly and not of specialist parts) and any man power related stuff but not the material and special parts.
This is because I currently have no previous or current products I can relate parts to and my design, obviously, is not at the current stage to be
asking suppliers to price from any CAD drawings. It seems catch 22. Do I go on with design stage potentially wasting time and money or use pie in the
sky figures to push through the feasibility and get battered by the directors!?
I really need to project accurate costings just for my own moral being but some of the designs are a long way down the line due to its complexity.
For reference the product can be related to a high street folding stroller \ push chair.
Any advice, help is received with a thanks.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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Fred W B
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| posted on 28/10/11 at 02:15 PM |
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If you don't have parts designed, you can't ask suppliers to quote so you will have to guess the pricing.
A stop gap may be to find some similar sized existing parts of comparable size/complexity/material and get pricing on those. A lot depends on what
process you will use to make the parts, and how many you are planning.
Their will always be unknowns at this stage but you need to reduce the amount of "guessing" as much as you can. Make sure you have at
least some representation of all the parts you need. A wrong guess of a part price is at least something in the costing, if you leave parts out their
is no allowance at all.
Another approach would be to cost up the parts of (and making) whatever will be your competiton in the market. If you can't get it to add up to
what you can buy the item for, you may as well give up now, unless your product has a feature/advantage that will cause people to pay the higher
price.
cheers
Fred W B
[Edited on 28/10/11 by Fred W B]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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TAZZMAXX
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| posted on 28/10/11 at 02:25 PM |
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My advice would be to send out some initial proposal drawings to potential suppliers, not for costing, more for feasability really. They will tell you
of any pitfalls or excessive cost implications quite readily without having to give a cost so they may save you a lot of time. I don't mind my
customers asking me about possible solutions to problems they have as it is not a time consuming task like detailed quoting is. As long as you are up
front and tell them what it is you're after, I'm sure they'll help.
[Edited on 28/10/11 by TAZZMAXX]
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twybrow
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| posted on 28/10/11 at 02:29 PM |
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Given a specification, and sketch, you can ask suppliers for a ROM cost (Rough Order of Magnitude). These are frequently asked for, and are the output
from a supplier, providing the most accurate quote givent he information supplier. The supplier will stipulate, that it cannot be used for ordering,
and a more detailed set of requirments/drawings would be required, but it is very normal to ask for such a proce, anmd any supplier worth his salt
will be happy to oblige.
We typically then assign confidence levels to our ROM costs, to show whether we expect the fianl proce to be with say +/-5, 10, 25% of that ROM cost.
As you start going through your concept slectection, and the design phases, you can increase the level of confidence of your ROM quotes as you are
able to give your supplier a more accurate picture.
Dont worry - this is 100% normal in product developement/businesscases!
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bi22le
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| posted on 28/10/11 at 04:42 PM |
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LCB still fails to not amaze me with its knowledge!!!
Thanks peeps. When I put up OP I had discussed it with a colleague and really got nowhere. TBH I only spoke to him incase he created a brainwave to a
solution and he nearly did!
I was thinking of using a competitor to use as a template for costings but thought that it would not work due to complexity of design and them not
wanting to take the time to acuratly quote.
twybrow has hit the nail with this ROM process. We already use suppliers and have good ties so I can send bits to them for tooling \ manufacturing
ROM. With the proposed high volume I am expecting it would be in their interest.
Tazzmaxx I, again, oftern use my suppliers to aid in snaglists with designs I have and will use that method again. Its in their interest as it will
only be a problem down the line when its harder to mod the design!
Drawings of any kind are really out of the question for some of the bits. CADing is done so little in house it would take one of us a week to do
anything of use!!!
Thanks again.
OH by the way, please please please continue adding comments. I will be working on this for the forseeable future and I have only just scratched the
surface so any comments \ help is welcome.
Have a good weekend. Im off home to play with Google Sketchup!
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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watsonpj
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| posted on 28/10/11 at 07:18 PM |
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A good model to take if you don't have a fully formed design is a functional analysis of the design and them try to work with the team to assign
parts and to the functions (this is not always clear cut as functions often overlap.) We used to use this process at my last company to define
projects costs for funding for products that were one or two years off in the development cycle. The projects development were all £0.5-£6M (consumer
products). The actual parts costings were either from our design team/buyers where similar parts exist or we submitted sketches to our suppliers. In
cases where new technologies were to be used the ROM model would be the best way to descibe it.
Also don't forget the legal side of things relating to standards that must be complied with British standards, CE etc. If your product needs any
kind of testing or certification this can add considerable cost and time to a project so try to head off these things as early as possible. Many tests
can be performed on early prototypes to prove functionality so that testing the final product is just a formality.
A couple of things I see as a must if there are a few of you working on a project are :-
Project milestones - Beta design,Alpha build ,Production release what ever you want to call the stages.
These give the designers something to aim for else they just keep on designing.
Project Tracking sheet (not a project gannt) - This is just a spreadsheet with headings like
Item,Action,Work action, Assigned to, by when, Status (open/closed)
break these up into subjects Mechanical design,electrical blah blah,
and this becomes your most important document and can help to manage all the requirements of your
internal and external customers.
finally I think a CI (change issue list or software) is essential. This allows problems to be raised through the design process and to be cut in at
the various design stages if you want a cheap easy to use one BUGBOX is OK. Without this things that need changing but not right now get forgotten
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sorry got a bit carried away but good luck I'm sure your be fine. Project management can be tough if its not going your way but to be honest
there the bits that keep it interesting (even if you do have the head in the hands moments/days/weeks). This happens even with the best planning
sometimes as somethings are out of your control (swine flu cost us about 2months on a project).
regards Pete
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