Hellfire
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 06:49 PM |
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Confession Time
OK, guess its confession time. Hellfire was written off on 18th November, two days before it was due to appear on MK stand at Exeter Kit Car show.
Driver is OK other than whiplash injury and a huge dent to his pride (which is why we didn't make it public on this forum sooner). It happened
in the wet and from what we can gather he lost control of the back end, bounced off kerbside a few times and shot across the road knocking down a
concrete lamp-post.
After negotiating with the insurance company, three weeks later the cheque arrived through the post and we got to keep the Indy as part of the
settlement.
Chassis is twisted from front to back, so, as we needed a new one, we also decided to make a few modifications. The Blade engine is in perfect working
order but we have decided to put a ZX12R in the next one. We have already acquired a 2004 engine and the chassis has been ordered from MK. A lot of
parts are useable from Hellfire, so we're hoping the next one will be on the road pretty soon.
Hats off to MK, the chassis stood up really well considering the impact. Top quality workmanship.
The rebuild will be detailed in our build diary. (Or should we call it re-build diary.....) 
[Edited on 8-1-05 by Hellfire]
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phelpsa
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 06:58 PM |
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That was my favourite MK Indy
I really am shocked at the amount of cars being written off the winter, maybe it's a suggestion to us all
I hope the next 'Hellfire' is as nice as the last one
Will it be the same colour?
Adam
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 07:20 PM |
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i was thinking today of how it might be a good idea to use really narrow rear tyres, to reduce grip so that you cant go so fast, combined with a more
predictable slide. time might tell...
ps, commiserations about the car guys. at least you have good plans afoot.
[Edited on 7/1/05 by JoelP]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 07:36 PM |
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I have fairly narrow tyres - 185/70 x 13" - and believe me, they slide nicely as well!
The main difference is that they slide smoothly and predictably, with decent feedback. My personal experience of cars with big wide tyres is that
they grip really well, but let go suddenly, surprising the driver.
I do wonder about the fact that a lot of the recently publicised mishaps have been with BECs - maybe the way the give their power is a contributory
factor. Certainly when I drive a lively ordinary car on slippy roads I tend to keep the engine revs down and use low-end torque to keep momentum,
rather than using the whole rev range.
Just my 2p's worth...
David
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Browser
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 07:41 PM |
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Unfortunately I think we are also victim to being used to front-wheel drive cars whose factory setup is on the boringly safe side of predictable and
you have to try really hard to get one out of shape!
Rear wheel drive really is a whole different ball game and we should be taking more time, especially in view of the amount of time/effort/cash spent
on the builds, getting used to driving them fast.
Comiserations mate, but knowing all of the secrets and tips you gained from building the first one, this one should go together in record time,
right?
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Fozzie
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 07:53 PM |
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Jeez what bad luck! It was a good looking car. I never saw it in the 'flesh', but looked well put together.
I shall look forward to seeing the progress of 'number 2'.
Glad the driver is ok, if still a bit sore.
ATB fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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phelpsa
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 08:14 PM |
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It'll be the other way round with me. Having learnt to drive in a Locost with a PTWR of 300bhp/t i'll be going into a FWD car to do my
test.
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andkilde
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 08:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
Not being nasty, but from the avatar pic, that car was 'an accident waiting to happen'. Sadly, a lot of the cars built are in the same
category.
C'mon then Syd, don't hold back tell us how you really feel.
FWIW, no real experience behind the wheel of a proper seven but I can certainly relate to the 'taller sidewall' = 'more
predictable' handling.
Mini's on 175/50/13's are all but undrivable and 165/70/10's are the dogs. Even the 145/80/10's on the wife's minivan
are nice. Plus they're easier on the kidneys.
Very sorry to hear about Hellfire 1 -- good that you're all healthy, happy and able to bounce back with a new car so quickly.
The team effort you fellows have seems to be working out tremendously well.
Cheers, Ted
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colibriman
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 08:42 PM |
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Shocked to hear it and glad the drivers ok.
enjoy your new build - probably still get finished before I do!
need a bike engine? - www.colibriman.com
SVA ready Mk Indyblade possibly for sale.....if the offers good...!
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 08:44 PM |
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2p from me..........
the tyres most people use on the road (including me) need to warm up before they work, its like driving on ice skates in mine till they warm up, on
the roads this time of year they never get warm enough.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 08:47 PM |
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Sorry to hear about the loss of Hellfire.
I agree with syd about the tyre sizes on cars. Not sure how a narrower tyre gives a longer contact patch, can you explain how its a longer patch Syd?.
I thought the extra grip came from the extra pressure exerted due to the smaller area with the same load, P=F/A and all that. The side walls depth is
something for people to consider, and i hear a lot of people mention 60's for 7's. At the end of the day they are tail happy(ish) cars
anyway, so it doesnt need magnifying by having a sudden loss of grip due to lack of sidewall flex.
Sorry for the loss once again,
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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zilspeed
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 08:51 PM |
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This is happening much too often around here
How many shunts is that now from members of this forum ?
Please - everyone - be carefull. Your locost is a loaded gun and you've really got to treat it with huge respect. Especially all you guys with
the monster power and bike engines.
Even my little 1660 crossflow car will spin the wheels in third in the wet.
P.S. I am also a devotee of narrower tyres and taller sidewalls. 185/70x13" yokohama A021Rs for me. Officially a racing wet and - I'm
very pleased to say - deeply unfashionable.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 08:59 PM |
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I thought you were a fan of the 'cheaper' tyre
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gazza285
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 10:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Not sure how a narrower tyre gives a longer contact patch, can you explain how its a longer patch Syd?.
You answer your question yourself.
"due to lack of sidewall flex"
More sidewall flex in the higher profile, narrower tyre allows for a longer contact patch. Longer contact patches give much better levels of grip this
time of year as the tyre is more effective at dispersing water and also reaches a decent temperature quicker than a wide low tyre. Keep the bling
alloys for summer and get some cheap (narrower) rims for winter.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 10:24 PM |
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Let me qualify the wheelspin in third statment.
That was with the bling spec 15" tyres (crappy tyres into the bargain) and with loutish use of the loud pedal.
The point I was making that it is possible.
I probably would struggle now with the current wheel tyre combo.
P.S. Phelpsa - these tyres 'were' cheap. £40 a pop from buyatyre.com
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phelpsa
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 10:30 PM |
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I know, thats what I was pointing out.
Adam
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 11:02 PM |
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syd might mean that by being narrower, the tyre gets more squished than a wide tyre, hence there is more flattened lengthways into the road.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 11:35 PM |
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OK that seems to make sense. Cheers for clearing that up.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 11:39 PM |
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I had a quick thought about what I'd posted earlier, and realised what I'd missed...
If you put a bike engine in a Locost, you end up with a car that weighs around 450Kg, an engine that will give 150+ BHP, accelerate its revs VERY
rapidly, all with rear-wheel-drive. That's a fierce combination! 
You're approaching a race car on the road, and that HAS to be treated with respect.
My x-flow engined car is heavier, with an engine that may give up to 100 BHP, and which doesn't rev up too quick - and I still managed to go
sideways on damp roads a couple of times.
These things are lively, and will bite!
Let's be careful out there...
David
BTW: I'm really glad that everyone who's had an 'incident' on this forum has come out of it alive and relatively
undamaged - is does show that these cars do protect their occupants quite well! Hope you get your new car built soon, Hellfire.
[Edited on 7/1/05 by David Jenkins]
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zilspeed
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| posted on 7/1/05 at 11:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
I know, thats what I was pointing out.
Adam
You and I are now officially 'not talking'
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Avoneer
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 12:06 AM |
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Back to the topic....
Hellfire - just because you owe me a spin sometime, you didn't have to get out of it this way!
Glad to hear who ever was driving was ok. Shame though - was a very tidy and nice build.
Does this mean you have a spare engine???
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 12:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
I know, thats what I was pointing out.
Adam
You and I are now officially 'not talking'
x
[Edited on 8-1-05 by phelpsa]
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stevebubs
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 01:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I have fairly narrow tyres - 185/70 x 13" - and believe me, they slide nicely as well!
The main difference is that they slide smoothly and predictably, with decent feedback.
I agree - my Fury came with 175/70 P2000s and, while not all that grippy, they're so predicable it's laughable - just about any idiot can
tailslide the car and hold it!
Am going to change them when i've got the zetec fired up, but they suited the xflow down to the ground - serious hoot!
My 2p...
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Liam
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 01:46 AM |
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Not nice to hear of all this winter carnage at all. Glad everybody is as well as can be expected and, er, has plenty to do over the winter and
spring.
Kind of glad I'm doing a 4WD
But now i'm thinking do I sell my lovely 15" OZ super Ls with 195/50s and get some 13s? Hmmmm.
Sort of aside... I notice Caterham spec 13" alloys for their most basic models, rising through 14" up to 15" in the Superlight R400
- presumably offering progressively more 'bling' to progressively richer and probably more over-fashion conscious customers. But
it's back down to 13" for the R500. Are they passing off as the quest for lighter weight an acknowledgment that 15" wheels and low
profile tyres might be a bit too dangerous for their most frantic model?
Or is that a conspiracy theory too far? If anything I guess it shows at least that Caterham feel 15" wheels are not ideal for the ultimate
performance of their lightest most hardcore model.
But the new 200/260 bhp CSR model is back on 15s. Hmmmmmmm. But that's probably not R500 light. Maybe the suitability of lower profile tyres
increases with weight? Makes sense. So maybe BECs should definately be on 13s, and I might stick with my 15s...
Liam
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nicklondon
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| posted on 8/1/05 at 07:30 AM |
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Is it tyre size or the temp thats the problem? winter tyres are made to work in lower temps than standard tyres.
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