russbost
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 08:24 AM |
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Heating engineers - Help please!
Our CH is a Worcester Bosch boiler (7 years old) with hot tank, fairly old (20 years?) Honeywell programmer & modern generic programmable
thermostat.
Recently the heating has sometimes been coming on on it's own, ie when the thermostat is telling it it's already hot enough & to shut
down. We leave the programmer on constant for the CH & the hot water is timed to come on morning & evening, but sometimes, in the middle of
the day or night the heating will be on even tho' the stat is saying it's off - there is a small symbol on the stat which says when
it's asking the boiler for heat, so you can tell when on or off.
Even if I go & turn both CH & HW off at the programmer, & wait a couple of minutes for the boiler to shut down, it's still going
& the main pump is still running - the only way I seem to be able to stop it is to unclip the 2 way valve motor from the valve, use the little
lever on the side to drive the motor to the HW position - this is sometimes VERY stiff to push across (whenever the heating is jammed on, it's
always in the CH position) reset the valve to match the HW position & refit the drive motor. If I then turn heating on constant & HW on timed
as normal with the stat not asking for heat everything seems to then work normally for a couple of days.
I can't see it can be the programmer as switching that to off doesn't stop it, I guess it could be the internal control of the boiler as I
know that always hangs on for a couple of minutes or so after everything is turned off, but if that's the case why would messing with the 2 way
valve affect
it ?- it would seem to point at a fault with the 2 way valve or motor, but I still don't understand where the boiler is getting it's feed
from with the programmer turned off unless there is a feed from within the drive motor on the valve - is that the case?
The valve itself seems quite free, easily turned with small pliers, when pump is running & you go from one position to the other it goes across
with a distinct "thunk" - the motor is obviously working ok some of the time as after a reset as I describe above everything may work fine
for a couple of days, do these things go intermittent - do I just need a new drive motor or do I need to get a plumber in?
If the answer is "don't be a tight git & get someone who knows what they are doing to sort it" please just say so - I
won't be offended! 
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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russbost
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 08:26 AM |
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Just to add, when I'm saying 2 way valve not sure that's correct description, it's a 3 port valve so I'm assuming can only go
one of 2 ways?
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 09:03 AM |
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I have seen cases before where the motorized switch causes the CH to be on continuously.
I would replace the drive motor unit, and test it like that
then call a plumber if that doesn't work
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russbost
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 09:13 AM |
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That was my initial thinking, are all 3 port valve motors the same? Most seem to come with the valve, which I don't think I need &
don't want to get into breaking into the water system unnecessarily - I take it the colour coding will be the same on any 5 wire unit ?(I think
mines 5 wire, but will confirm b4 ordering anything). Many seem to be metal bodied, mines plastic, does that matter?
So I take it that one of those wires from the valve sends a feed to the boiler when it's in the CH position even if programmer is turned off? As
otherwise I can't see where the boiler is getting it's "request for heat" from?
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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HowardB
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 09:15 AM |
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check that the CH/HW valve is moving, it can normally be adjusted by hand.
The other easy check is if either the controller or the programmer are battery powered,. new batteries is a simple low cost action
hth
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again  and goes zoom)
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russbost
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 09:24 AM |
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It seems extremely stiff, I haven't attempted to force it across when the pump is on & water flowing, as I said the valve goes across with a
fair old "clonk" when adjusted by hand with the motor unclipped.
Sometimes the motor seems more resistant than others, it's obviously quite low geared as when driving the motor by pushing the valve across you
can hear the motor being driven quite quickly
Both programmer & programmable thermostat are mains powered
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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HowardB
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 09:42 AM |
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Does you motor drive in both directions - my last one was driven 1 way and a spring return.
Driven for CH spring return for DHW
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 09:53 AM |
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there are several manufacturers/models of actuator, - replace like for like.
https://www.toolstation.com/central-heating/motorised-valves/c458
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russbost
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 10:06 AM |
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I'd say it's driven both ways, how can you tell? tho' if I physically push the lever over to the CH side, it is then locked there
unless I make a physical request for HW, at which point it moves back to the HW position as it should, if I pull it back to CH whilst requesting just
HW it goes back to the HW position, but if, when there's no demand for HW or CH I pull it across to CH position, it won't allow me to push
it back, it appears locked there?
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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peter030371
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| posted on 14/10/20 at 10:28 AM |
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I had exactly the same problem. Turns out the frost stat fitted in the loft next to the boiler had packed up and randomly turned the boiler on because
it thought it was too cold (even in the middle of summer). I had tried everything else but as the system was new I didn't think this would be
the problem! £15 later and all fixed, been fine ever since and not doesn't wake me up in the middle of the night by coming on at random
times.
If you haven't got a separate frost thermostat the boiler might have one built in?
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russbost
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| posted on 15/10/20 at 12:26 PM |
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New actuator ordered, took me a while to track down exact type as it has no manufacturers name on it, apparently both British & Scottish gas ones
are like this, but are in fact a Drayton part MA1
The heating is, of course, working perfectly at present!! but will get new actuator fitted at w/e & report back in a week or so to confirm if
fixed.
Thanks for help & suggestions guys!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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chris
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| posted on 16/10/20 at 06:10 PM |
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yes sounds like you need a complete valve not just actuator if you are saying it is hard to move it should be easy if there are three pipes going to
it then yes it is a three port valve and also sometimes called a mid position valve and yes this valve will turn the boiler on even if stat and
programmer say no
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russbost
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| posted on 17/10/20 at 09:40 AM |
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It's not the valve that's hard to move it's the actuator unless I've cut power to the whole system. I've got another
actuator, arrived yesterday & fitted, all working fine at present, but given that it was an intermittent fault won't know for certain for a
few days yet
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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russbost
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| posted on 28/10/20 at 09:04 AM |
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Just for info should anyone else have a similar problem, the new actuator has given a 100% fix
Also, for info, apparently I have now been reliably informed that it's the orange wire from the actuator that gives the feed to the boiler even
when the programmer & t'stat are saying no heat required, so I guess that was what was turning the system on. There's a small circuit
board in the actuator, so I guess that was intermittently feeding power to the orange wire when it shouldn't have been
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
