kb58
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| posted on 15/3/05 at 06:26 PM |
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Weighed Kimini... sigh
Last Sunday was Judgement Day for me as a designer/builder. Reality sucks... I weighed my mid-engine Mini and it was depressingly heavy. I had an
idea this would happen, and in fact told my wife the night before that I would be disappointed.
1730lbs 
That's fully loaded, gas, water, oil, and me. My Fantasy-Land number was 1600lbs. Not completely far off, but depressing nevertheless. I have
a spreadsheet that had "most" of the parts on it... it's all the little stuff that conspired to do me in. (This is one reason I get
annoyed by people suggesting small additional weights don't matter... yeah they do, and they add up to big numbers.) The front/rear weight
distribution was right on, at 40/60. Left-to-right weight distribution was 52/48, not too bad.
Having someone remind me a stock, steel, Mini weighs 1200lbs did nothing to improve my mood...
I know when most people discuss car weights they always leave out the driver, and maybe even fluids. If I did that I can claim I built a 1495lbs
car... that sounds much better...
[Edited on 3/15/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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tadltd
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| posted on 15/3/05 at 06:43 PM |
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If it helps (and I doubt it will, cos I ain't happy with this either), the 2nd prototype LMP weighed in at 650kg (1435lb)!! For the record, the
first was 550kg (1220lb - ZX9 engine, lighter frame)
The one we're currently building will be lighter because we now know where we can shave loads of weight off; I'm sure if you built another
car you'd be able to do the same.
However, considering that your engine is normally pushing something over twice the weight, so when you drive it in anger you will be VERY happy with
the performance. 
[Edited on 15/3/05 by tadltd]
[Edited on 15/3/05 by tadltd]
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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kb58
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| posted on 15/3/05 at 06:49 PM |
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Thanks for understanding. Yeah, part of me is disappointed, and the other part is, well "Okay, I learned from this, screw it, on with the
show." I could do some engine work to help, but for now I'll just leave it alone and get it on the road. It'll be fun
regardless.
I already have ideas for "next time."
[Edited on 3/15/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Jermyn
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| posted on 15/3/05 at 09:46 PM |
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I don't think you should be disappointed. You missed your goal by just 8%! Besides, most manufacturers don't assume driver weight because
it is variable. I'm sure if you just dumped your driver weight you'd be at your target number even with the fluids
If life is a race do you want to be the first one to finish?
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pbura
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| posted on 15/3/05 at 10:11 PM |
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Funny, my first reaction was the small percentage of difference. If you measured with a full fuel tank, you can knock off half the weight of your
fuel as well. Seems like the usual yardstick is wet, half tank of fuel, no driver.
Ah, well, live and learn. One of your weightier additions, the SS floor, will be very nice to have for the long run.
The car should go like a b*st*rd. 
Pete
Pete
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locost_bryan
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| posted on 15/3/05 at 10:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kb58
a stock, steel, Mini weighs 1200lbs [Edited on 3/15/05 by kb58]
iirc a standard Mini was around 800kg or 1760lbs
Bryan Miller
Auckland NZ
Bruce McLaren - "Where's my F1 car?"
John Cooper - "In that rack of tubes, son"
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Alan B
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 12:40 PM |
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" Seems like the usual yardstick is wet, half tank of fuel, no driver."
Yep, that's what I hear too.
" iirc a standard Mini was around 800kg or 1760lbs"
I agree that sounds more realistic too.
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kb58
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 04:20 PM |
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1760lbs... really? That seems pretty heavy, but I'm not complaining. Okay, that cheers me up a little.
BTW, though it's not mid-engine, there's a new Seven maker in the U.S. Their site is accessible through the www.racerpartswholesale.com
site. They claim with a Ford V8 and Jag rear-end, a weight of 1800lbs or so. Seems light to me...
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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kreb
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 05:36 PM |
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kg: Your car will be used on the street, right? Take comfort that if ms. cell-phone-soccer-mom ever sideswipes you in her Excursion you'll be
glad to have not shaved every spare ounce off the car!
That sevenesque car that racer wholesale is repping doesn't seem especially light to me. My Stalker weighs in at 1400 lbs. Figure another
150-200 pounds for an iron-head SBF plus some assorted reinforcement and I'm actually surprised that they're that high. If they throw on
Aluminum heads and refined the design, they should be able to get that car down close to 1600. I'd guess that the 1800 figure is with an Iron
SBC.
https://www.supercars.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1966_FiatAbarth_1000SP1.jpg
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chrisf
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 06:07 PM |
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My opinion is this: Who cares? Do you dislike the car now? My wife's put on a few pounds over the years and I don't love her any less. The
Kimini is a phenominal build. take pride in that.
--Chris
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soggy
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 07:03 PM |
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minis racing in the mini miglia championship i think have a base weight of 670 kg a they lap 2-3secs off formula ford times at some tracks all with
140 bhp!!
if at first u dont succeed use a bigger hammer!
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andkilde
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 07:29 PM |
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Hey Kurt
The 1700 lb range for the Mini is a bit high -- they range between 1250 for an English Moke to 1550-1600 for a late Rover Cooper.
You weighed yours as total worst case scenario, wet with driver aboard.
Most weights are quoted dry or with a 1/2 tank of fuel -- never with a driver.
Personally I'm waiting for you to tire of the Prelude engine and swap it for a 'Busa
Cheers, Ted
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kb58
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 08:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andkilde
Personally I'm waiting for you to tire of the Prelude engine and swap it for a 'Busa
At one point I would have considered it, but:
1. The Hayabusa wasn't out when I designed the car.
2. No reverse.
3. Little torque (worse since my car is heavier then expected.)
No, if I were doing it now I'd go for the Honda K20 engine in a heartbeat. Everything about that drivetrain is superior to the H22... but
they're $$$$.
Besides, I'm already thinking about the next car project.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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kb58
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 08:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrisf
My opinion is this: Who cares? Do you dislike the car now? My wife's put on a few pounds over the years and I don't love her any less. The
Kimini is a phenominal build. take pride in that.
--Chris
Point taken. It's not so much the weight as it is the fact that it weighs more then expected. I feel it shows that I, as designer, am not
impervious to human nature, and let it cloud my judgement. Said another way, if I'd done better engineering, my weight estimate would have been
spot on.
"Next time" it will be accurate!
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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tadltd
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| posted on 16/3/05 at 11:47 PM |
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Chrisf is dead right.
Hear, hear!
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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TheGecko
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| posted on 17/3/05 at 12:38 AM |
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Kurt,
I understand the disappointment - my weight prediction spreadsheets look wonderfully optimistic but I'm expecting an upsetting moment at the
first weighbridge visit
I'll have to dig through my copy of "Driving Ambition" tonight, but I seem to remember Gordon Murray setting a weight target of
1000kg for the McLaren F1 and the finished car coming in closer to 1100 (from memory). Didn't he say that 1100 was still a very low weight for
a car of that class (to put it mildly!!) and that setting the 1000 target was what kept the final weight so low.
If Gordon Murray sets a weight target and is happy (more or less) to accept a 10% over-run, you should be ecstatic with 8%. And, as others have said,
some of that extra is in safety related things like the stainless floors etc.
The Kimini is an inspiration for all home builders and a great example of what can be achieved in a home workshop by a lone builder on a real world
budget. Celebrate it 
Dominic
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kb58
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| posted on 17/3/05 at 03:25 AM |
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Thanks for the support guys.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 17/3/05 at 08:44 AM |
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I had a look at your site, and downloaded your "2nd test drive" video. Very nice... although I did smile near the beginning when
you're just starting up the road and a vehicle approaches over the hill - I thought "if that's a police car, he's in deep
trouble!"
One question - what's the ticking sound I can hear, especially when you pull back into your drive? Petrol pump?
cheers,
David
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kb58
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| posted on 17/3/05 at 03:10 PM |
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Yes they are the two low-pressure petrel pumps. One is knocking extra loud because it was sucking air. This was also before I rubber mounted them so
they wouldn't make so much noise.
The police issue is a very real concern for me and is one reason why I'm in no hurry to do the next drive, which is looming soon. Let's
see, I get pulled over and the officer sees:
1. No license plate.
2. No registration.
3. No insurance.
4. No seatbelts.
5. No mirrors.
6. No lights.
7. No wipers.
8. No turn-signals.
9. Suspiciously low ride height.
10. Noisy exhaust.
Think they'll give me any trouble about this... nah!
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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sgraber
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 05:16 PM |
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I've been away from computer access for over a week, so just wanted to give my ditto's to all the positive comments about your car. My one
wish that my own car would be half as nice as yours. With your consumate attention to detail and thoughful approach to design I feel that your car
achieves an enviable level of design and construction. Not trying to pump up your ego, just stating what I have thought.
Besides as previously stated, it is obviously SAFE and still very light for the available power.
Steve Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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