graememk
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| posted on 15/4/06 at 10:14 PM |
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caterfield, westerham ?
msn review
>>link<<
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omega0684
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| posted on 15/4/06 at 10:32 PM |
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i like his dash, i bet if he took the window screen off he could do it even quicker
I love Pinto's, even if i did get mine from P&O!
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Tim 45
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| posted on 15/4/06 at 10:53 PM |
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A duratec engine, surely a vauxhall would do it much quicker at only half the cost  ???
[Edited on 15/4/06 by Tim 45]
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SixedUp
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 12:09 AM |
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Doesn't matter if you're using a duratec or a vauxhall twincam ... 260 bhp is going to be pretty expensive to achieve.
However, surely there is a more basic issue here. It's a nice car ... but I'm not sure any seven can justify a £37k price tag. It just
doesn't seem true to Chapmans original vision.
The whole point was that the original 7's were cheap, and could humble much more expensive machinery at the track by being light and agile.
Seems to me that some of our minimalist BECs are much more in keeping with Chapmans principles than this Caterham. If he were still with us now,
I'm sure that's what he'd be playing with :-)
Cheers
Richard
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Dale
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 12:58 AM |
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260 bhp expensive - not if you can find a 2.3 lima turbo. Just kinda heavy Mine with a refresh on it so far is around $400 cnd including the t5 .
I may have to drop a hundred on a set of bearings and seals for the t3.
Dale
Thanks
Dale
my 14 and11 year old boys 22
and 19 now want to drive but have to be 25 before insurance will allow. Finally on the road
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SixedUp
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 01:55 AM |
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*chuckle* I take your point, but Turbos, Superchargers and Nitros don't count as far as this conversation is concerned ... the car under
discussion is naturally aspirated :-)
Cheers
Richard
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Hellfire
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 06:40 AM |
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Wonder what weight is comes in at?
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cossey
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 07:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
Wonder what weight is comes in at?
570kg,
most of the cost is the engine, you can buy almost the same engine from cosworth but it is over £10k
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Tim 45
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 09:42 AM |
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Well i looked into a duratec a while ago and if you import the parts from the US, you can have forged rods and pistons for about £600, then some cams
from cosworth are about £400.
Add £1000 to the cost of the installation and you have 260-300bhp for about £4000 (including a brand new engine + ancilliaries)
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 09:50 AM |
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only 200ft/lbs torque ???
im with dale on this one , huge cheap holset 30 psi , same end effect !!! for about 10th of the price .
on another note , did you hear that cosworth supplied some engines with an incorrect sump that was machined from an outside supplier ?
getting em made in china !!!
i believe also that USA can provide the 2.3 engines at a fraction of a cost of a cossie engine - although the cossie one has different block , so im
told .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 09:53 AM |
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hmmmmmmmm, I DON'T think it's quite that simple!!
To go with the cams you need a set of solid followers, £200 minimum assuming you can get somebody other than cosworth to make em for you.
Then you need some big valves, guess around £20 apiece again from a cheap source, so that's another £320.
Then you need a set of titanium spring caps, say £160 a set.
Then the porting work, the head doesn't port itself, for a decent flowbench job add another £600, incl the seat inserts.
The cossie motor doesn't use forged rods, it uses steel billet ones which are circa £550 a set again from a cheaper source.
Pistons will be around £350 to £400 a set.
I guess you'll be needing a steel billet crank to spin at those sort of revs and not need a new crank every year, so that's £1550 plus vat
and del from Doug Kiddie Engineering just up the road from me.
I have still missed a lot out of that list, like the dry sump setup you'll need at say £1000 all in if you do some of it on the cheap.
£10,000 is the going rate for a 260hp 2.0 nat asp engine, be it vauxhall, ford or any other.
In fact that's not such a bad price, A 260hp millington all ally YB engine would prob be nearer £14,000.
Bear in mind that a newly built 200hp vauxhall XE from Swindon engines is £4000.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Tim 45
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 10:10 AM |
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Well because the duratec 2.3 is used in the focus in the US, the parts are very cheap, most can be obtained for the same price in $ as £.
http://www.marcymotorsport.com/html/focus/23D/focus_2_3_duratec_engine.htm
http://www.marcymotorsport.com/html/focus/23D/focus_2_3_duratec_head.htm
There are two places where parts can be obtained cheaply. Sump shouldnt be a problem if one is made from steel to prevent damage when bottoming on
those speed bumps.
Yes that is a good point i fogot about the springs but for $749 (~£430) you get a pair of crane cams, springs and gears if im not mistaken.
The pistons and rods are £513, so for £1000 you can have uprated cams and piustons and rods.
All you then need is a £750+vat engine from Scholar, and some other ancilliaries such as throttle bodies, or use a homemade plenum similar to the
cosworth one. A new gearbox is probably needed so some gears from quaife wouldnt go a miss.
Or for £970, a full block assembly (including # Remanufactured Focus 2.3L Duratec Cylinder Block w/Stepped Steel Sleeves bored to 92mm
# Remanufactured Ranger 2.3L Duratec Crankshaft, De-Burred, Stress Relieved
# Balance Shaft Assembly Removed and Balance Shaft Delete Kit Installed
# Supertech Forged Pistons w/NPR Piston Rings (92mm specific piston skirt design for reduced ring pack wear)
# Eagle Connecting Rods
# New Cosworth Heavy Duty Replacement Bearings) can be obtained.
So that and lets say another £1000 for a complete ported head with new cams etc.. thats just shy of £2500 (inc shipping), so with an extra £1500 that
could be a fully operational engine im sure, and i dont think thats missing anyhting.
So i reckon that it could be done for £4000, if done on a budget.
[Edited on 16/4/06 by Tim 45]
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Lawnmower
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 02:48 PM |
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The exhaust looks rusty!
also are those SVA compliant bonet catches, (take it it don't need an sva)
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Guinness
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 04:31 PM |
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I was out playing with a CSR260 yesterday. Very nice, but again hard to justify the £41k price tag in my opinion. Especially when I could keep up
with him accelerating out of the corners and out braking him into them. Couldn't drag past him though on the straights!
He was also considerably slower than me across the tops of the moors! A very heavily cambered single track road and lots of sudden dips lead to him
going very slowly to protect the dry sump (which sits about 3" above the floor!). He was very, very fast on the wider, flatter sections
though.
Cheers
Mike
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DIY Si
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 05:29 PM |
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Is £10k really the going rate for a 260 bhp engine? Or just a n/a 2litre? Surely a bmw engine could achieve much more power for MUCH less money? Or
are they too heavy/long/generally don't fit?
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 06:16 PM |
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Throw £2k at a small block Ford or Chevy, and you'll have a good deal more than 260hp, at lower revs too. More than enough extra to cover the
weight added.
And a proper V8 sound to go with it!!
The only problem is putting all of the 'proper' engine's torque down on the road.
Pissant little 4 cylinders, why waste money on them?
Cheers,
Syd.
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greggors84
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 07:32 PM |
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What about a S2000 engine? 240bhp as standard, surely wouldnt take too much more to squeeze another 20bhp out of it.
I guess you have to rev them to the limit to get anwhere though.
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chockymonster
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| posted on 16/4/06 at 10:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by greggors84
What about a S2000 engine? 240bhp as standard, surely wouldnt take too much more to squeeze another 20bhp out of it.
I guess you have to rev them to the limit to get anwhere though.
It's actually quite expensive to get more power out of the highly stressed jap N/A engines.
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